So my father is joining this "Iglesia Ni Cristo"...thing...

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dzheremi

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I’m sorry, but I don’t even see how this is a Christian church. They openly assert that Christ is not God, and claim that their founder guy was the last messenger of God.

So, um…what do I do here, folks? At what point does honoring your father and mother need to be tempered by concern for their souls? If there is such a point, I can’t think of any more applicable situation than this. I mean, sure, he’s an adult and all, but then so are most people who are led into error by one way or another. I’ve already told him that I have no desire to meet with these people, which he respects, so there is in turn no discussion of their unique, Mormonesque doctrine (they also have their own “great apostasy” theory).

Background: He’s a wayyy lapsed Catholic (according to him “it never took”, and I’ve never seen him in any kind of church), looking to marry a Filipina woman in this “church”…

(I am likewise not Catholic, so I will not be trying to steer him back to his birth religion, but I know heresy when I see it!)

Prayers are appreciated.
 
dzheremi said:
I’m sorry, but I don’t even see how this is a Christian church. They openly assert that Christ is not God, and claim that their founder guy was the last messenger of God.

So, um…what do I do here, folks? At what point does honoring your father and mother need to be tempered by concern for their souls? If there is such a point, I can’t think of any more applicable situation than this. I mean, sure, he’s an adult and all, but then so are most people who are led into error by one way or another. I’ve already told him that I have no desire to meet with these people, which he respects, so there is in turn no discussion of their unique, Mormonesque doctrine (they also have their own “great apostasy” theory).

Background: He’s a wayyy lapsed Catholic (according to him “it never took”, and I’ve never seen him in any kind of church), looking to marry a Filipina woman in this “church”…

(I am likewise not Catholic, so I will not be trying to steer him back to his birth religion, but I know heresy when I see it!)

Prayers are appreciated.
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This Iglesia ni Kristo, or INK, is a sect started in the Philippines sometime in the 1915s or so…it was started by a guy named Manalo. His heirs run the group today.

Go on youtube…and type in Karl Keating debates Iglesia ni Kristo…this is a video of a debate between Karl Keating and an elder from INK, you will learn alot from that debate, how to refute it and inform your father. And if you want material to read, under the Search section of this site, type in INK for additional info.
 
dzheremi said:
I’m sorry, but I don’t even see how this is a Christian church. They openly assert that Christ is not God, and claim that their founder guy was the last messenger of God.

So, um…what do I do here, folks? At what point does honoring your father and mother need to be tempered by concern for their souls? If there is such a point, I can’t think of any more applicable situation than this. I mean, sure, he’s an adult and all, but then so are most people who are led into error by one way or another. I’ve already told him that I have no desire to meet with these people, which he respects, so there is in turn no discussion of their unique, Mormonesque doctrine (they also have their own “great apostasy” theory).

Background: He’s a wayyy lapsed Catholic (according to him “it never took”, and I’ve never seen him in any kind of church), looking to marry a Filipina woman in this “church”…

(I am likewise not Catholic, so I will not be trying to steer him back to his birth religion, but I know heresy when I see it!)

Prayers are appreciated.
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i can just imagine your situation. i am from the Philippines and I know how notorious these rascals can be.

Increase your prayers and let your life be a light that will outshine the darkness of that INC cult your father is in.
 
Iam from the Philippines as well we do have a lot of these INC churches honestly i dont know either especially if it’s your parents
 
Your dad is only following the woman, just like Adam in the Garden of Eden! His having no or weak faith to begin with makes him a prime candidate for this type of cult. Your prayers are valuable. Pray for his enlightenment through the workings of the Holy Spirit. If he has been practicing no faith, this could be a step toward the light for him, regardless of his motivation. Keep in touch with your father and by all means, keep praying for him.
 
interpolator said:
i can just imagine your situation. i am from the Philippines and I know how notorious these rascals can be.

Increase your prayers and let your life be a light that will outshine the darkness of that INC cult your father is in.
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it’s true, this cult is notorious. They hide their teachings, they do not have official website, they kept eveerything secret even their own number.

For Catholics who really are ignorant of their faith this is the punishment they have to undergo-- worshipping baal.:eek:
 
dzheremi said:
I’m sorry, but I don’t even see how this is a Christian church. They openly assert that Christ is not God, and claim that their founder guy was the last messenger of God.

So, um…what do I do here, folks? At what point does honoring your father and mother need to be tempered by concern for their souls? If there is such a point, I can’t think of any more applicable situation than this. I mean, sure, he’s an adult and all, but then so are most people who are led into error by one way or another. I’ve already told him that I have no desire to meet with these people, which he respects, so there is in turn no discussion of their unique, Mormonesque doctrine (they also have their own “great apostasy” theory).

Background: He’s a wayyy lapsed Catholic (according to him “it never took”, and I’ve never seen him in any kind of church), looking to marry a Filipina woman in this “church”…

(I am likewise not Catholic, so I will not be trying to steer him back to his birth religion, but I know heresy when I see it!)

Prayers are appreciated.
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Prayer is the best thing, for your father, and thank God this didn’t happen when you were a boy.
 
For some reason today he brought up how well his Bible study is going with the representatives of this group that come to his house once a week to teach him their doctrine. I hadn’t asked about it (or anything about this situation; I figure prayer is better than discussion with a clearly heretical group), but since he is apparently determined to try to involve me in it, I was as courteous as I could possibly be while registering an objection about what they were teaching. I said I had done some research on the internet (thanks, CAF!) and was concerned about some of their doctrines. He replied that the only major point on which they vary from the Catholic Church is that the INC does not believe in the Trinity. I said that is a pretty major issue, as the Trinity is central to Christian belief itself. He replied “well, that’s what the Catholic Church teaches, fine…” (as though it is optional in the Orthodox or mainline Protestant churches…? :confused:) I replied that, yes, the Catholic Church does teach it, but so do 99.9% of Protestant churches, and all Orthodox churches. He then proceeded to yell at me and tell that he “knew we were going to get into it over this” and he doesn’t want to argue with me over religion (he brought it up…), because we’ve done that before and it “led to some real bad blood between us” (referring to the time some 8-9 months ago when I told him I had made the decision not to return to the RC; he said “I was wondering how long it would take you!” and then proceeded to be very upset once it became clear that I wasn’t leaving to become some kind of unaffiliated protestant/hedonist/secular humanist).

I’m going back to keeping my mouth shut! You can’t go wrong with that! I hope… 😦
 
Careful. One tactic of religious cults is to turn people against their own family. To insert themselves as the “ones who really love you”, and turn you into the enemy (usually an enemy in league with Satan).
 
dzheremi said:
I’m sorry, but I don’t even see how this is a Christian church. They openly assert that Christ is not God, and claim that their founder guy was the last messenger of God.

So, um…what do I do here, folks? At what point does honoring your father and mother need to be tempered by concern for their souls? If there is such a point, I can’t think of any more applicable situation than this. I mean, sure, he’s an adult and all, but then so are most people who are led into error by one way or another. I’ve already told him that I have no desire to meet with these people, which he respects, so there is in turn no discussion of their unique, Mormonesque doctrine (they also have their own “great apostasy” theory).

Background: He’s a wayyy lapsed Catholic (according to him “it never took”, and I’ve never seen him in any kind of church), looking to marry a Filipina woman in this “church”…

(I am likewise not Catholic, so I will not be trying to steer him back to his birth religion, but I know heresy when I see it!)

Prayers are appreciated.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately, I believe that your father is probably more interested in the woman than he is in the church which makes the situation more difficult to resolve. If this is the case, he may not respond to any arguments against this church because he may just not care enough to consider them. I say this because of a somewhat similar situation in which a friend of mine fell in love with a Mormon and left the Catholic Church. I thought she was a devout Catholic, but her interest was in him and not erroneous doctrine.

My advice is to pray for him and I will do the same.

God bless.
 
Thanks, Steve. Unfortunately, he seems to be taking all of this rather seriously and not at all seeing the enormous contradictions in what they are teaching him vs. traditional Christian teachings. Chances are he does not know what those are, since he has lived his life without any sort of anchoring in Christianity.

Rebecca J: Yes, this is true, but what is the alternative? I have decided to keep silent from now on and focus only on prayer, but this does not mean that I simply cannot engage him in any conversation on any topic, and as these people become more and more a part of his life they are likely to influence him more and more. The scariest thing about all of this is he only had his second “Bible study” meeting with these people today and he is already swallowing all of their doctrine and becoming angry with those who question it (i.e., me). I don’t want to say this makes him highly suggestible…but that is how I would put it. If this is how it is after two weeks (1 hour private meeting per week, so really only two hours!), what will they have him believing in a few months time when the woman who has told him she will not marry him outside of this church comes to live with him? He seems to quickly take to whatever he is told, but not from me or any of the rest of the family (none of whom are particularly religious, but all of whom have told him in one way or another that the situation he is in with this woman is absolutely ridiculous). I am at the end of my rope here, but what can I do? He’s my father, after all. I can’t just ignore him for the rest of his life over his decision to join this cult, especially when he’s heading down such a dangerous road.

As I am myself not in any communion at this point, I have taken to praying that God guide us both away from all errors and temptations. It is so difficult to watch all this. I find myself wondering if this is how the first Christian converts must have felt, as they suddenly found their morality and religious identities in conflict with those of their pagan parents. Not a fun situation…I wish I had their courage right now!

St. Behnam, pray for us! 😦
 
dzheremi said:
Thanks, Steve. Unfortunately, he seems to be taking all of this rather seriously and not at all seeing the enormous contradictions in what they are teaching him vs. traditional Christian teachings. Chances are he does not know what those are, since he has lived his life without any sort of anchoring in Christianity.(
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dzheremi, you never know what seeds you may be planting. I would not be silent, but always be charitable. That is not an easy feat when it involves someone about whom you feel deeply. Do you currently practice any faith? Your example can do wonders.
 
I have been attending the local OCA off and on for the past few years, though I am not a member, canonically-speaking. It’s been a while. I attended my last Catholic mass immediately upon returning to California from Oregon in July 2009.
 
dzheremi said:
Thanks, Steve. Unfortunately, he seems to be taking all of this rather seriously and not at all seeing the enormous contradictions in what they are teaching him vs. traditional Christian teachings. Chances are he does not know what those are, since he has lived his life without any sort of anchoring in Christianity.

Rebecca J: Yes, this is true, but what is the alternative? I have decided to keep silent from now on and focus only on prayer, but this does not mean that I simply cannot engage him in any conversation on any topic, and as these people become more and more a part of his life they are likely to influence him more and more. The scariest thing about all of this is he only had his second “Bible study” meeting with these people today and he is already swallowing all of their doctrine and becoming angry with those who question it (i.e., me). I don’t want to say this makes him highly suggestible…but that is how I would put it. If this is how it is after two weeks (1 hour private meeting per week, so really only two hours!), what will they have him believing in a few months time when the woman who has told him she will not marry him outside of this church comes to live with him? He seems to quickly take to whatever he is told, but not from me or any of the rest of the family (none of whom are particularly religious, but all of whom have told him in one way or another that the situation he is in with this woman is absolutely ridiculous). I am at the end of my rope here, but what can I do? He’s my father, after all. I can’t just ignore him for the rest of his life over his decision to join this cult, especially when he’s heading down such a dangerous road.

As I am myself not in any communion at this point, I have taken to praying that God guide us both away from all errors and temptations. It is so difficult to watch all this. I find myself wondering if this is how the first Christian converts must have felt, as they suddenly found their morality and religious identities in conflict with those of their pagan parents. Not a fun situation…I wish I had their courage right now!

St. Behnam, pray for us! 😦
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Yes, I understand the dilemma. My entire family are LDS and it is like watching a train wreck some of the time. Everything is about “the prophet”, and reading up on this cult your father is involved in, it is eerily the same. (A lot going on there that is eerily the same.)

Keep the lines of communication open. Help him when he needs help. But most of all pray for him.

A prayer of protection from what is false is good. 👍 I will pray for you both as well.

God bless.

Rebecca
 
examineiglesianicristo.com/

iglesianicristo.ws/

iglesianicristo.freeforums.org/

Unbiblical Beliefs

Vehemently oppose the Biblical revelation of the Triune God.

Believes in the absolute oneness of God the Creator in the Person of the Father.

Believes the Son as the literal Word (which has no pre-existence) who became man. He was given power by the Father to do supernatural miracles. He is not God.

Believes in an impersonal Holy Spirit, a power sent by the Father in the name of Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit is not God but one of the spirits sent by God.

Believes the Father (Creator) and Son (creature) must be worshipped. The Son must be worshipped because the Father says so.

Believes a person must hear the “gospel” from authorized INC messengers and INC ministers. They are the only ones who have God’s Holy Spirit in order for them to understand the Bible.

Believes the official name of the church is “Iglesia ni Cristo” while other names are not.

Believes a person must be a member of the Iglesia ni Cristo (INC), be water baptized, follow the church rules (must avoid the eating of “dinuguan,” avoid joining labor unions, avoid court sessions, do block voting, be under compulsory church attendance, practice giving to the church) and perform his good deeds as an INC member in order for him to be saved.

Believes Felix Y. Manalo is the fulfillment of Isaiah 43:5-7; 46:11, and Rev. 7:2-3 prophecies.

They also believe in “soul sleep,” a belief that at death, the souls dies. There is no consciousness. (A belief of the Seventh-Day Adventist Church - Ellen G. White).

apologeticsindex.org/i20.html
apologeticsindex.org/cgi-bin/dbman/db.cgi?db=default&uid=default&keyword=iglesia+ni+cristo&mh=10&sb=4&so=descend&view_records=View+Records

thebereans.net/prof-inc.shtml

letusreason.org/igleidir.htm

iglesianicristo.freehostia.com/

freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/groups/i/iglesia/statement.htm

google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=en&safe=off&rlz=1R2ADBF_en&q=Iglesia+Ni+Cristo&rlz=1R2ADBF_en&aq=0&aqi=g5&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=ed68904dd3283f54
 
My wife is from the Philippines and I have seen and experienced plenty of Iglesia churches and members. It is a fanatical group that has a real grip over its members, especially in a financial sense. They forbid marriage outside their cult, are rabbidly ANTI-CATHOLIC with a passion, and their prophet manalo is downright wacky. Read his bio. It’s a dangerous innovative group that has alienated a lot of filipinos from their Catholic and other Protestant brothers and sisters. The guy needs to seriously reconsider joining this bunch! Manalo is the Joseph Smith of the Philippine Islands. The guy started a confidence trick IMO.
 
Jeremy,

My father is a Catholic minister of the Holy Eucharist. When we were young he would lament how fanatical and heretical this people were. I could not seem to understand why he is so irritated with their doctrines. I wouldn’t careless. Until I encountered one outspoken, tactless, loudmouth, cursing coed during college.

I learned from her, that they deny the divinity of Jesus Christ, that the Catholic Church is not the church which Jesus founded and that their cult is the ONLY way to salvation. These already raised objections on my part aside from the fact that I heard it from an annoying character. Now I realized why my father is frantic about them.

Apparently, I realized these other things that really disgusted me more.
  1. Vehemently oppose the Biblical revelation of the Triune God.
  2. Believes in the absolute oneness of God the Creator in the Person of the Father.
  3. Believes the Son as the literal Word (which has no pre-existence) who became man. He was given power by the Father to do supernatural miracles. He is not God.
  4. Believes in an impersonal Holy Spirit, a power sent by the Father in the name of Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit is not God but one of the spirits sent by God.
  5. Believes the Father (Creator) and Son (creature) must be worshipped. The Son must be worshipped because the Father says so.
  6. Believes a person must hear the “gospel” from authorized INC messengers and INC ministers. They are the only ones who have God’s Holy Spirit in order for them to understand the Bible.
  7. Believes the official name of the church is “Iglesia ni Cristo” while other names are not.
  8. Believes a person must be a member of the Iglesia ni Cristo (INC), be water baptized, follow the church rules (must avoid the eating of “dinuguan,” avoid joining labor unions, avoid court sessions, do block voting, be under compulsory church attendance, practice giving to the church) and perform his good deeds as an INC member in order for him to be saved.
  9. Believes Felix Y. Manalo is the fulfillment of Isaiah 43:5-7; 46:11, and Rev. 7:2-3 prophecies.
  10. They also believe in “soul sleep,” a belief that at death, the souls dies. There is no consciousness.
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I understand you are in a point of transition. It would be easy to refute these ministers, when you know where you stand. Anyway, I suggest you arm yourself with God’s Words to counter their heretical teachings. Just the way you will, with islamic doctrines. **They are literally the same. **
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.
Galatians 1:8-9
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And one more thing, pray that the Spirit of God touch your father’s heart.
 
gurneyhalleck1 said:
My wife is from the Philippines and I have seen and experienced plenty of Iglesia churches and members. It is a fanatical group that has a real grip over its members, especially in a financial sense. They forbid marriage outside their cult, are rabbidly ANTI-CATHOLIC with a passion, and their prophet manalo is downright wacky. Read his bio. It’s a dangerous innovative group that has alienated a lot of filipinos from their Catholic and other Protestant brothers and sisters. The guy needs to seriously reconsider joining this bunch! Manalo is the Joseph Smith of the Philippine Islands. The guy started a confidence trick IMO.
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Sociologically, Filipinos can be easily amused. You can easily dupe the working class into believing practically everything by the way you present yourself. Just like any popular politician do.

So INC employs ministers who speak very fluent tagalog, blurt out verses in the bible in outlandish fashion and make everyone believe they are the authority. Since Filipinos are not keen to details, and never bother to test them, whatever is said against the Catholic Church is fact - the Padre Damaso (fat friar) effect.
 
Ultimately it will not come down to theology but family. She is offering something the Church nor his extended family doesn’t and to get her he has to join or pretend to join the INC.
 
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