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AndyF
Guest
…and still waiting.
AndyF
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…and still waiting.
AndyF
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Kevin42
Guest
(I have read alot, but certainly not all of this thread, so forgive me if this has already been said.)
God is all knowing, so could we say that He would have known those who would have chosen to exist and those who would not have? Using this foreknowledge, He then created us. I don’t really know.
Secondly (in response to your question why God could not show us even a little of His ‘justice in action’), even if God showed you His justice, you would not understand it, so it really is of little value to show you something that you won’t be able to completly understand. That is where faith comes in.
At the moment, both of these appear to be acceptable answers to me. Of course, I’m assuming you are going to show me why they are not
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God is all knowing, so could we say that He would have known those who would have chosen to exist and those who would not have? Using this foreknowledge, He then created us. I don’t really know.
Secondly (in response to your question why God could not show us even a little of His ‘justice in action’), even if God showed you His justice, you would not understand it, so it really is of little value to show you something that you won’t be able to completly understand. That is where faith comes in.
At the moment, both of these appear to be acceptable answers to me. Of course, I’m assuming you are going to show me why they are not
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AndyF
Guest
The manifestation of caution and reservation in the approach of topic reminds me of this children’s tale. The emporer never wore clothes, and everyone was afraid to tell him. One day during the emporer’s yearly parade through town a child stated the obvious. The crowd reacted in different ways. Some denied it in hopes the emporer will forget it as well as telling the boy he must be imagining it and saying he should apologize, some chucked caution to the wind and joined him, some in sheer terror went into a state of dimensia unable to cope with the unexpected walking around as zombies, etc.The gist being that in positions of self preservation and risk, people will deny anything to appease the potential tormentor and it cannot be counted on to hear the truth from them.
I was intitiated Catholic, what eventually proves that I was is up to the Founder.
AndyF
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AndyF
Guest
Kevin:
Your right and your view *is *Doctrine.
I just have a different opinion. You see I think that the mechanism of justice should be visible to all beings it is applied to. Like yourself I think most things should be subject to Faith, but I think justice should be the exception in that it should not be part of the Deposit of the Faith. I have the silly notion that people shouldn’t be processed, ie: in one end out the other.
You see my father would never process his children like this. I see my brothers and sisters being punished and why, or that the justice of my nation and it’s instrument is guaranteed to be shown working by constituation. I am thrilled I have my human counterpart Father in God, but I am still trying to reconcile his action with my father’s. Stranger even, the Holy Spirit promised to “bind in heaven what is bound on earth”, so if God is slightly delayed in revealing the same, it can’t be because of a break in promise. So I guess there’s a slight delay in witnessing God’s equivalent human wonderous justice.
I see nothing wrong in actually showing people what is claimed, that so-and-so received heaven because of this and that, or that Harry got purgatory, and the Philistines were sent to hell* en masse*, etc. I mean if you actually saw a perfect justice in action wouldn’t you be elated that a pure justice proves to be a pure justice?. My father’s punishment of my brother only reinforced my trust in his justice. That could only help your alliance and trust with God wouldn’t it?
AndyF
Your right and your view *is *Doctrine.
I just have a different opinion. You see I think that the mechanism of justice should be visible to all beings it is applied to. Like yourself I think most things should be subject to Faith, but I think justice should be the exception in that it should not be part of the Deposit of the Faith. I have the silly notion that people shouldn’t be processed, ie: in one end out the other.
You see my father would never process his children like this. I see my brothers and sisters being punished and why, or that the justice of my nation and it’s instrument is guaranteed to be shown working by constituation. I am thrilled I have my human counterpart Father in God, but I am still trying to reconcile his action with my father’s. Stranger even, the Holy Spirit promised to “bind in heaven what is bound on earth”, so if God is slightly delayed in revealing the same, it can’t be because of a break in promise. So I guess there’s a slight delay in witnessing God’s equivalent human wonderous justice.
I see nothing wrong in actually showing people what is claimed, that so-and-so received heaven because of this and that, or that Harry got purgatory, and the Philistines were sent to hell* en masse*, etc. I mean if you actually saw a perfect justice in action wouldn’t you be elated that a pure justice proves to be a pure justice?. My father’s punishment of my brother only reinforced my trust in his justice. That could only help your alliance and trust with God wouldn’t it?
AndyF
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Kevin42
Guest
I still am not 100% sure I understand exactly where you are coming from, so please bare with me if I misunderstand you.
First, I’d wonder if you would agree that to know what justice is, you must first have the laws. These laws in our case are of course God’s Most Holy Word as spoken by the Bible and the living Church. Both of these things have been given freely to all of the world. Therefore it is ok to say that we indeed should have knowledge (somewhat) of how we will be judged. Since we have this, I do not understand why you feel the need to see God’s justice in action. I am sure you have a decent reason, but I do not completly understand where you are coming from on this. Also a side not, we must remember that greater than God’s justice is His mercy. His perfect justice is tampered by His perfect mercy.
Of course, who is to say that God does not reveal His works of justice to us here on Earth in ways that we do not understand? And, at the end of time we will indeed see God’s justice, but more important to us, His mercy in action.
I don’t know. This is a slightly confusing, but very interesting thread .
First, I’d wonder if you would agree that to know what justice is, you must first have the laws. These laws in our case are of course God’s Most Holy Word as spoken by the Bible and the living Church. Both of these things have been given freely to all of the world. Therefore it is ok to say that we indeed should have knowledge (somewhat) of how we will be judged. Since we have this, I do not understand why you feel the need to see God’s justice in action. I am sure you have a decent reason, but I do not completly understand where you are coming from on this. Also a side not, we must remember that greater than God’s justice is His mercy. His perfect justice is tampered by His perfect mercy.
Of course, who is to say that God does not reveal His works of justice to us here on Earth in ways that we do not understand? And, at the end of time we will indeed see God’s justice, but more important to us, His mercy in action.
I don’t know. This is a slightly confusing, but very interesting thread
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