So the Egyptian people speak.

[Stephen0]

The article below is part of a larger article that came from Lawrence Solomon of the Canadian National Post. I would be curious to know what some Moslem members of the board might think of Solomon’s insights. My own opinion is that the majority of Egyptians would side with the Moslem Brotherhood, which will not bode well for our Western mindset nor Christianity. Of course if these Egyptians ever got the world portrayed in the Caliphate then they would again be thrown into a dark age. This is because under a former medival caliphate all access to scientific learning was ordered to end and their world stood still for centuries. So much for the power of central governments and their orders.

"In Egypt, the ends that democracy would bring are more likely death, submission and the pursuit of jihad, as defined by the country’s Muslim Brotherhood. “The Koran is our constitution, the Jihad is our way, and the Death for Allah is our most exalted wish,” it proclaims. The word Islam does mean “submission.”
Most Egyptians – three-quarters of its overwhelmingly Muslim population, public opinion polls say – want “strict imposition of Sharia law” and a larger proportion wants policies that most in the West would view as human rights abuses – 82% would stone adulterers and 84% want the death penalty for Muslims who leave their faith.
While most of the urban generation in Cairo’s Tahrir Square desires a modern Egyptian state of some kind, the Egyptian majority does not: 91% of Muslims want to keep “Western values out of Islamic countries.” For the vast majority outside the main cities, the outrages perpetrated by Mubarak lie mostly in his suppression of Islamic fundamentalist values, such as his ban on female genital mutilation and his moves to phase out polygamy and child brides. Most Muslim Egyptians not only oppose a modern Egyptian state, they would dismantle the existing Egyptian state, two-thirds wanting instead “to unify all Islamic countries into a single Islamic state or caliphate.”

 

[InspiritCarol]

…
The word Islam does mean “submission.”

…

"

Not to distract, but FYI

The Definition of Islam

Islam, an Arabic word which, since Prophet Muhammad’s time , has acquired a religious and technical significance denoting the religion of Muhammad and of the Qur’an, just as Christianity denotes that of Jesus and of the Gospels, or Judaism that of Moses, the Prophets, and of the Old Testament.

Grammatically, the word Islam is the infinitive of the so-called fourth verbal form of the regular intransitive stem salima, “to be safe”, “to be secure”, etc. In its second verbal form (sallama) it means “to make some one safe” and “to free”, “to make secure”, etc. In its third form (salama), it signifies “to make peace”, or “to become at peace”, i.e. to be reconciled". In its fourth form (aslama), the infinitive of which is Islam, it acquires the sense of “to resign”, “to submit oneself” or “to surrender”. Hence Islam, in its ethico-religious significance, means the "entire surrender of the will to God", and its professors are called Muslimun (sing. Muslim), which is the participial form, that is “those who have surrendered themselves”, or “believers”, as opposed to the “rejectors” of the Divine message, who are called Kafirs, Mushriks (that is those who associate various gods with The Deity), or pagans.

(From 4islam.com/islamdef.shtml).

It’s a subtle, but very important distinction.

 

[hamba2han]

IMHO, the person who is featured in this video understands the situation in Egypt a great deal more and explains it better than just about anyone who works at or who regularly watches Fox News.

 

[Contarini]

The article below is part of a larger article that came from Lawrence Solomon of the Canadian National Post.

It’s an interesting article. I don’t know enough to say whether it’s accurate or not. But here’s a radically different view for your consideration.

My own opinion is that the majority of Egyptians would side with the Moslem Brotherhood

On what is this opinion based? I myself have no way of knowing, so I’m happy to learn from someone with better sources.

Of course if these Egyptians ever got the world portrayed in the Caliphate then they would again be thrown into a dark age. This is because under a former medival caliphate all access to scientific learning was ordered to end and their world stood still for centuries.

Evidence for this? Certainly Islamic society did turn away from Aristotelian philosophy, and unlike the similar turn in Europe, this did not lead to new scientific paradigms. However, this turn happened after the Caliphate had ceased to be a significant political force (around 1200–the Caliphate had lost most of its power in the 10th century).

I think it unlikely that a “revived caliphate” would have the virtues (though it might well have the vices) of, say, the Abbasid Caliphate. But we need to get our history straight. I’m not even sure which caliphate you are talking about–the militants tend to take the first four caliphs as their models, whereas culturally the Abbasid Caliphate is usually seen as the high point of Islamic civilization.

Most Egyptians – three-quarters of its overwhelmingly Muslim population, public opinion polls say – want “strict imposition of Sharia law” and a larger proportion wants policies that most in the West would view as human rights abuses – 82% would stone adulterers and 84% want the death penalty for Muslims who leave their faith.
While most of the urban generation in Cairo’s Tahrir Square desires a modern Egyptian state of some kind, the Egyptian majority does not: 91% of Muslims want to keep “Western values out of Islamic countries.” For the vast majority outside the main cities, the outrages perpetrated by Mubarak lie mostly in his suppression of Islamic fundamentalist values, such as his ban on female genital mutilation and his moves to phase out polygamy and child brides. Most Muslim Egyptians not only oppose a modern Egyptian state, they would dismantle the existing Egyptian state, two-thirds wanting instead “to unify all Islamic countries into a single Islamic state or caliphate.”

These are points worth considering.

Edwin

 

[Stephen0]

It’s an interesting article. I don’t know enough to say whether it’s accurate or not. But here’s a radically different view for your consideration.
I found this quote from your attached telling. “What of the Islamists, those who see in Islam a political ideology capable of solving all of society’s problems? They have not disappeared, but they have changed. The most radical of them have left to wage international jihad; they are in the desert with al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, in Pakistan or the suburbs of London. They have no social or political base. Indeed, global jihad is completely detached from social movements and national struggles.”
Maybe I don’t grasp the power of a group like the Moslem Brotherhood that has both a strong social base and are the second strongest shadow force in Egypt.

On what is this opinion based? I myself have no way of knowing, so I’m happy to learn from someone with better sources.
My opinion that the common folks would side with the Brotherhood comes from their having filled the social vacumn. At least my understanding is that they provide many social services not furnished by the government. This has permitted them to become almost a shadow government. Maybe if we have an Egyptian on the board they would be kind enough to fill in the details.

Evidence for this? Certainly Islamic society did turn away from Aristotelian philosophy, and unlike the similar turn in Europe, this did not lead to new scientific paradigms. However, this turn happened after the Caliphate had ceased to be a significant political force (around 1200–the Caliphate had lost most of its power in the 10th century).

I think it unlikely that a “revived caliphate” would have the virtues (though it might well have the vices) of, say, the Abbasid Caliphate. But we need to get our history straight. I’m not even sure which caliphate you are talking about–the militants tend to take the first four caliphs as their models, whereas culturally the Abbasid Caliphate is usually seen as the high point of Islamic civilization.
On this subject I used the Caliphate loosely to imply absolute monarchy. Right off hand, I had Sultan Murad who in 1580 brought a period of stagnation that affected all the sciences.

These are points worth considering.

Edwin