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Nostradennis
Guest
This is true. Here’s a little more in depth explanation.
Since this is a Traditional Forum I will try to give a traditional response. In the step leading up to the priesthood there are four Minor Orders and three Major Orders. The last of the Minor Orders is that of the Acolyte. The Acolyte receives the right to carry the candles and give the wine and water at Holy Mass (read: altar sever). Previously in the Church only seminarians who reached the order of acolyte were allowed to serve mass.
materdeitradcatholic.blogspot.com/2010/02/steps-to-traditional-roman-catholic.html
I believe that Pope St Pius X was the first pope to allow non seminarians (re:altar boys) to serve mass. Because the Minor Order of Acolyte was a step to ordination in the priesthood (Alter Christus) only male boys were given this exception. Altar girls were never given this permission because the Church never wanted to give a false presumption that they to ascend in both Minor and Major Orders to the Priesthood. The Spirit of Vatican II has now allowed for this change.
dailycatholic.org/2004alt.htm
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Layman
Guest
When girls are involved, boys don’t want to be.
If you get everyone up at the altar, it detracts from the impression of sacrality i.e. “Something Important Is Going On Here”.
In the TLM, the idea of a sacred rite is powerfully conveyed: Men only, in vestments, facing the Sacred Matter, Crucifix and the East, with the Priest saying the Mass on the congregation’s behalf. They also tend to have an altar rail.
If you get everyone up at the altar, it detracts from the impression of sacrality i.e. “Something Important Is Going On Here”.
In the TLM, the idea of a sacred rite is powerfully conveyed: Men only, in vestments, facing the Sacred Matter, Crucifix and the East, with the Priest saying the Mass on the congregation’s behalf. They also tend to have an altar rail.
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Brendan
Guest
Not at our (OF) parish. It’s only boys 
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jmcrae
Guest
Ah - so, then, the problem of boys not wanting to serve wasn’t “caused” by the girls - it was a pre-existing problem.
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Cecilianus
Guest
I am a Greek Catholic; our particular law (in both the Ruthenian and Ukrainian jurisdictions in the United States) forbids girl altar servers, as indeed was the case in the Roman Church before Vatican II. Women are only allowed behind the iconostasis in order to clean the church, since only a priest or someone with a natural potency (=likeness) to become a priest should be near the altar.
Metropolitan Hilarion (Alfeyev) of the Russian Orthodox Church once showed Pope Benedict a photograph of a female altar server and told him that this was the sort of reason why the restoration of communion between Roman Catholics and Orthodox hadn’t happened yet.
Metropolitan Hilarion (Alfeyev) of the Russian Orthodox Church once showed Pope Benedict a photograph of a female altar server and told him that this was the sort of reason why the restoration of communion between Roman Catholics and Orthodox hadn’t happened yet.
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Tentoes
Guest
at our old parish girls were allowed and the boys didn’t want to do it because they said it was a girly thing to do??? Thats the problem with girls/women everywhere in church it is womanizing the church and scaring boys from becoming strong men of faith. It breeds the mentality that church service is for women only… I think some women now actually believe they have a right to be a priest??
my current parish - boys only and the men (over 30) out number the boy servers
my current parish - boys only and the men (over 30) out number the boy servers
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jmcrae
Guest
Now who’s pushing out the boys?! Can’t blame the women for that one!
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JReducation
Guest
There were four minor orders. Pope Paul VI changed them to lay ministries some time during the 1970s. The Lector and Acolyte were kept as lay ministries. However, you can only confer these ministries on males who have received all of the Sacraments of Initiation and are “of the age of reason”. The canons don’t give a specific age. It should be understood that this only applies to Roman Law, not to the Oriental Churches. They have their own canons regarding Orders, not to be confused with religious orders.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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Cecilianus
Guest
Do any of you still actually have Masses served by ordained acolytes, or seen a Mass that had them?
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floresco
Guest
What do you mean by “sorry ladies”? You seem to imply that all women approve or want these things. There are plenty of women with a traditional approach to Catholicism who reject the idea of female altar servers.
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ConstantineTG
Guest
Our former parish pastor (RC) only commissions boys to be altar servers even though the diocese allows for girls. The new one has recruited girls to be altar servers.
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Nostradennis
Guest
Yes, in the traditional steps (four Minor Orders and three Major Orders) toward Holy Orders there was a post Vatican II change. Any way you slice it the numbers to the priesthood have slid dramatically downward since Vatican II.There were four minor orders. Pope Paul VI changed them to lay ministries some time during the 1970s. The Lector and Acolyte were kept as lay ministries. However, you can only confer these ministries on males who have received all of the Sacraments of Initiation and are “of the age of reason”. The canons don’t give a specific age. It should be understood that this only applies to Roman Law, not to the Oriental Churches. They have their own canons regarding Orders, not to be confused with religious orders.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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Zacdecat
Guest
There are no girls serving the altar at the church I attend. The tradition of the Church was the server/s were in orders and from there on occasion lay men/boys served, never women.
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JReducation
Guest
Actually it was tradition with lower case “t”. This allows a reigning pontiff to change the canons. The major orders are part of revelation. The minor orders are not. They were instituted by eclesial authority and can be managed by eclesial authority at its discretion. We may disagree or wish for a return to a previous modality, but there is no ground in Sacred Tradition for the minor orders. They are part of what may be called historical tradition. They are not essentially part of the Sacrament of Holy Orders. That’s what is happening here. The Church cannot change the sacraments, but she can change the format and even the steps to them. I prefer male altar servers too; but the canons allow for females and the pontiff has the right to change the canons. What can I do except accept it?
It is not for me to question the Pontiff on a matter over which he has every right to change and I have not right to oppose.Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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At_Trent
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JReducation
Guest
I try to follow the same behavior as Cardinal Arinze. I don’t like the idea anymore than he does, but it’s a done deal. The good cardinal has not made a point of pursuing it further or asking for a change. He moves along with the more important aspects of his job and daily life.
There is nothing wrong with having an opinion on this matter. What I find a nuisance is when people go on and on about something that we cannot change and is probably not as high on the Holy Father’s list of priorities as they are on our list. It’s at that point that I often ask myself if we have paid close attention to the Holy Father’s list of priorities.
Having sat through several of Cardinal Arinze’s talks, I have noticed that he speaks about this subject only when people ask him. It’s not on the top of his list. His favorite topics are: liturgical reverence, the renewal of the renewal, the correction of the experiments, and the prayerfulness of the liturgy.
One of my favorite quotes from him is “leave them be” when he talks about how people should pray after they receive communion. We should all be as practical and as calm as Cardinal Arinze.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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Cecilianus
Guest
One must always obey the Holy Father unquestionably, but this does not mean that there aren’t ever situations in which we may or even must question the prudence of the Church’s decisions. Look at the examples of St. Paul and St. Catherine of Siena, for example.Actually it was tradition with lower case “t”. This allows a reigning pontiff to change the canons. The major orders are part of revelation. The minor orders are not. They were instituted by eclesial authority and can be managed by eclesial authority at its discretion. We may disagree or wish for a return to a previous modality, but there is no ground in Sacred Tradition for the minor orders. They are part of what may be called historical tradition. They are not essentially part of the Sacrament of Holy Orders. That’s what is happening here. The Church cannot change the sacraments, but she can change the format and even the steps to them. I prefer male altar servers too; but the canons allow for females and the pontiff has the right to change the canons. What can I do except accept it?
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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JReducation
Guest
I agree that we don’t always have to agree. I caution how one looks at Paul and Catherine of Siena. Very often people refer to them as examples of two great saints who disagreed with the popes, but leave out the other part. Both of them were willing to submit to the authority of the pope.
Paul would not have approached Peter with his concern, if he had not regarded Peter as the head of the Church and the man with the power to make the final call on the matter in question. It is always interesting to note that Paul honors Peter by calling him Cephas, not Simon. He calls him by his title, not his name. This is very important. In Jewish custom, as in our own time, a title is only used when one acknowledges the authority of the person to whom one speaks.
Catherine ended all of her letters with, “Your obedient daughter.” In addition, she was very hard on all of her disciples when they failed to submit to the authority of the bishops, religious superiors and the popes, whether they were right or wrong…
Francis of Assisi summarized it best when he wrote his admontion on obedience. He spells out that one has the right to disagree; however, when the legitimate authority makes up his mind, one has the moral duty to submit, even if one knows better. Such submission, he says, is pleasing to both God and man and is good for growth in humility. Francis stresses the importance of remembering our place in the Church and in relation to authority. The only time when one is justified in refusing to comply is when one is asked to commit a sin. Even then, Francis explains that it is not for the individual to decide what is or is not a sin. But a sin is that which has been identified as such by the Church. Therefore, one cannot hide behind “I believe it’s a sin.” If the Church says that it’s not a sin, then one must comply, because the Church is always infallible in matters of morals. The Church cannot deceive her members to sin.
While popes may make mistakes that cause problems, they can never lead the faithful into sin, even though they can sin like any other human being. In other words, they cannot teach sin or legalize it.
We have to very careful how we use that example of Paul and Catherine. It’s gotten abused quite a bit lately. They were not the only saints who disagreed with the popes; but like the rest of the saints, they submitted to the authority of the papacy.
What is most interesting in Mystical and Ascetical theology is that the saints do not require infallibility as a condition for submission. They recognize that there is an authority that comes with the office, which has nothing to do with infallibility, but is no less legitimate and no less deserving of our submission, because man must submit to all legitimate authority out of justice. Otherwise, life becomes a conflict of wills, which is divisive. We all know who is the Father of Division.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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baylee
Guest
I would argue that the first step toward the priesthood was (and should still be) the family. I think the bigger problem today is that families do not encourage callings to the priesthood. I once suggested that a student may be called to be a priest one day because of his strong interest in saying the Rosary at a young age… and the mother responded, “Not over my dead body”.
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