So what can't we do on Sunday?

[Magicsilence]

I don’t mean to start this thread in a possibly rebellious tone, but just want to explore the Church’s teaching on what we may / may not do on a Sunday.

The main one, of course, is shopping, since I know we should avoid shopping on Sunday unless it is absolutely necessary.

Sometimes, my dad leaves food shopping till Sunday, and then asks me to come, and gets in a real huff when I say “I’m happy to help, but why not Saturday?”.

But, shouldn’t we avoid any action that directly implies that others must work to facilitate it?

What about TV? If everyone turned off their TV sets on Sunday, the broadcasters would only work Mon-Sat. We’d find out the news on Monday.

What about the internet? If no-one used the Internet on Sunday, then all the internet companies would not have to have support people working all day Sunday.

Do you think I’m being scrupulous about this?

It seems that the provision of a service often gets treated lightly, as opposed to the provision of goods, yet the morality / immorality of the action is surely dependent on the intent - namely, working for money on the day or rest.

Are we not obliged to avoid all activities that directly / indirectly oblige others to work for their provision? I can’t see why not?

BUT, then what about electricity, and water?

What do you all think? I’m nuts, right?

 

[juhothenero]

What about TV? If everyone turned off their TV sets on Sunday, the broadcasters would only work Mon-Sat. We’d find out the news on Monday.

What about the internet? If no-one used the Internet on Sunday, then all the internet companies would not have to have support people working all day Sunday.

Do you think I’m being scrupulous about this?

Internet works based on servers running in company or other locations. So internet does actually not need to have any real humans working on it on Sundays by no means. Since these servers can run themselves quite efficiently, and usually they are never shut down. News broadcasts seems a different issues and other TV-programs that is complicated, I have no idea on that business so don’t know how they handle it.

I think the best would be to just go to a church and stay there to pray as long as you can and then come back to the steps in front of the church to pray. So that you have not used any persons working effort on Sunday.

Or then just take it easy. After all even Christ went on to complain his disciples not being aloud to eat, or him not being aloud to heal on sabbath

 

[LilyM]

Not nuts, but going a bit overboard.

The difference between goods and services is that there are plenty of services that are actually essential, even on a Sunday. Water, electricity, transport, emergency services of different kinds.

I’m sure even Our Lady got water from the well to wash Jesus’ stinky diapers on the sabbath just like every other day, and didn’t leave them for a day. And if someone’s roof beams were falling apart and their roof about to fall down you can bet carpenter Joseph would rush over to fix them, even if it was a Sabbath.

Yes, even the news - people need as a matter of urgency to know what’s going on, since many things can affect them directly and urgently. If my parents’ town has been hit by a cyclone I want to know asap, even if it does happen on a Sunday. And I need to be able to phone them or use the internet to talk to them (remember lots of people use internet-based telephone-like services) even if it’s on a Sunday.

And remember the second purpose of Sunday is recreation and family activities. Nothing wrong with watching a good wholesome TV show or sports game together, and running pre-recorded TV programs is also pretty well computerised and doesn’t require that many people to work either.

Families bond over such activities, and almost as importantly footballers earn their keep (imagine if all games were played on weeknights, no way they could make a living at their sport, so we’re giving them a job by watching them on weekends).

 

[gmags2003]

One Sunday when I was working (grocery store) this old man came up to me and said “Why are you working on a Sunday?” and I felt like saying “So that you will be able to eat,” but I didn’t because I thought that would be too wise and sarcastic. Looking back, I don’t really see my self at fault for working on a Sunday – people need food to survive.

 

[Polaris]

Not nuts, but going a bit overboard.

The difference between goods and services is that there are plenty of services that are actually essential, even on a Sunday. Water, electricity, transport, emergency services of different kinds.

I’m sure even Our Lady got water from the well to wash Jesus’ stinky diapers on the sabbath just like every other day, and didn’t leave them for a day. And if someone’s roof beams were falling apart and their roof about to fall down you can bet carpenter Joseph would rush over to fix them, even if it was a Sabbath.

Im not sure about Joseph because building of any type is banned along with tying of knots but the Law isnt how us Christians claim it to be so this might be an exception, but Mary certianly would not gather water from a well on the Sabbath to wash anything. She was without sin which also means she had to be a perfect Jew, and that would be two violations of the law off the top of my gentile head that can be avoided and had no need for exception.

 

[para8888]

NO. You shouldn’t do ANY of those things!..Even if it contributes in a very small way you are breaking the 4th Commandment…

You shouldn’t be looking to buy a house on Sunday, going to an Open House on Sunday or any other thing.

Stay home and pray for your wretched unworthing soul

 

[Miriam1947]

One Sunday when I was working (grocery store) this old man came up to me and said “Why are you working on a Sunday?” and I felt like saying “So that you will be able to eat,” but I didn’t because I thought that would be too wise and sarcastic. Looking back, I don’t really see my self at fault for working on a Sunday – people need food to survive.

Years ago I worked as a waitress and Sunday was a regularly scheduled day. I can remember a group of people who used to come in after church and say the same kind of thing to me.

I guess the correct answer in both situations is: If you didn’t shop or go out to eat on Sunday, then I wouldn’t have to work on Sunday.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

I’m sure even Our Lady got water from the well to wash Jesus’ stinky diapers on the sabbath just like every other day, and didn’t leave them for a day. And if someone’s roof beams were falling apart and their roof about to fall down you can bet carpenter Joseph would rush over to fix them, even if it was a Sabbath.

No, actually Our Lady didn’t. The water would have been gotten on Friday also known as preparation day when everything was made ready for the Sabbath. Had Mary left the house to draw water, she would have been stoned on the spot for Sabbathbreaking. (Of course, that would have required the stoners to violate the sabbath by picking up stones, i.e. bearing burdens, and by doing their own pleasure, but maybe that was allowed to teach a Sabbathbreaker a lesson.) Joseph would have helped to move a beam if someone was pinned under it, but fixing it? No way.

During the time of Christ, it was forbidden for a man to walk around in one sandal on the Sabbath because the assumption might be made that he was secretly carrying the other sandal under his cloak and thus violating the Sabbath. Women were forbidden to look in a mirror on the Sabbath because they might see a gray hair and pluck it out, thus performing labor on the Sabbath. In fact, a woman was allowed to pick up the baby in her house on the Sabbath, because the rules were somewhat relaxed within the home, but she could not carry the baby outside.

I’m sure you have heard the term “a Sabbath’s day journey”. Off hand, I don’t remember how far that was but trust me it wasn’t far. If you lived more than a Sabbath’s day journey from the Synagogue you couldn’t go to services on the Sabbath.

Formerly, I was a Seventh Day Adventist and did a term paper in college many years ago on Sabbathkeeping in Jesus’ time and it gave new meaning to rigorous.

Even today, a strict Orthodox Jew will either not turn on his lights or his stove during the Sabbath hours, or he will have a gentile stop by to do it.

 

[traillius]

I am not sure about this. There are 2 things

1. the commandment about the sabbath, which is either saturday or sunday, depending on one’s persuasion. This says keep it holy, so if you aren’t doing sinful work, then you are not violating it. If you mean to say you can’t do work on sunday, then you better not clean, or cook, or repair anything.( Well, dear its sunday, I can’t put out that greasefire…)
2. I know there was a law for the jews that they had to stay in their domicile. We are not Jews, and by God’s grace we are free from the law. By the way if you take this view, forget about handling emergencies. ( I don’t care if his carotid artery is severed, its sunday…)
   .

 

[para8888]

I am not sure about this. There are 2 things

1. the commandment about the sabbath, which is either saturday or sunday, depending on one’s persuasion. This says keep it holy, so if you aren’t doing sinful work, then you are not violating it. If you mean to say you can’t do work on sunday, then you better not clean, or cook, or repair anything.( Well, dear its sunday, I can’t put out that greasefire…)
2. I know there was a law for the jews that they had to stay in their domicile. We are not Jews, and by God’s grace we are free from the law. By the way if you take this view, forget about handling emergencies. ( I don’t care if his carotid artery is severed, its sunday…)
   .

Obviously you know nothing about the bible. It’s Satan at work in your heart that makes you “justify” these sins. I don’t remember anything in the Bible that says where you get to justify your reasons.

If the 4th Commandment from God himself is vague, maybe you should go back and read it. In the Old Testament, there is a man out collecting firewood on the Sabbath. Moses and his followers ask God what punishment this man should receive.
God tells them in no uncertain terms to take the man into the village and stone him to death…
Does that sound vague to you?..Are you going to follow your own heart or the word of God?

 

[traillius]

Obviously you know nothing about the bible. It’s Satan at work in your heart that makes you “justify” these sins. I don’t remember anything in the Bible that says where you get to justify your reasons.

If the 4th Commandment from God himself is vague, maybe you should go back and read it. In the Old Testament, there is a man out collecting firewood on the Sabbath. Moses and his followers ask God what punishment this man should receive.
God tells them in no uncertain terms to take the man into the village and stone him to death…
Does that sound vague to you?..Are you going to follow your own heart or the word of God?

Undoubtedly, Satan is trying to work in my heart to twist the truth, Doesn’t he do that to everyone? St Michael the archangel, defend us in battle. Nothing vague about it. I didn’t however know that cooking, cleaning, safety and health were sins. Perhaps I need to go look back at the bible. I will be sure to look at both the old and new testament, since they are complimentary. For the glory and praise of God, we are no longer slaves to law, or under the law. By His grace, we are free to love and not fear.

 

[Polaris]

I am not sure about this. There are 2 things

1. the commandment about the sabbath, which is either saturday or sunday, depending on one’s persuasion. This says keep it holy, so if you aren’t doing sinful work, then you are not violating it. If you mean to say you can’t do work on sunday, then you better not clean, or cook, or repair anything.( Well, dear its sunday, I can’t put out that greasefire…)
2. I know there was a law for the jews that they had to stay in their domicile. We are not Jews, and by God’s grace we are free from the law. By the way if you take this view, forget about handling emergencies. ( I don’t care if his carotid artery is severed, its sunday…)
   .

This is where you are wrong life saving is the clear exception to the law, any Jew, even arch orthodox will tell you that.

Neat fact I recently learned it is even against the Jewish law for a goy like me to do any work for them. Like lighting a fire, and I thought I was helping.

 

[para8888]

Undoubtedly, Satan is trying to work in my heart to twist the truth, Doesn’t he do that to everyone? St Michael the archangel, defend us in battle. Nothing vague about it. I didn’t however know that cooking, cleaning, safety and health were sins. Perhaps I need to go look back at the bible. I will be sure to look at both the old and new testament, since they are complimentary. For the glory and praise of God, we are no longer slaves to law, or under the law. By His grace, we are free to love and not fear.

Then I guess you get to disregard those other 9 commandments too. You can’t cook, clean and take care of yourself on the other 6 out of 7 days??

 

[traillius]

Sadly, one or more persons failed to detect the sarcasm in my post. So let me put in bluntly. We are allowed to care for our families and selves, everyday including the sabbath. " for the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath " I am not disregarding any commandment, or at least I am trying not to. I will, through the grace of God, stand on God’s promises in Jesus. Ultimately, we will all face the Father, and how we respond to Jesus is the biggest thing.

 

[LilyM]

Then I guess you get to disregard those other 9 commandments too. You can’t cook, clean and take care of yourself on the other 6 out of 7 days??

So brushing your teeth is out. Or is it OK as long as you dont ‘labour’ by putting toothpaste on the brush first?

 

[bilop]

Obviously you know nothing about the bible. It’s Satan at work in your heart that makes you “justify” these sins. I don’t remember anything in the Bible that says where you get to justify your reasons.

If the 4th Commandment from God himself is vague, maybe you should go back and read it. In the Old Testament, there is a man out collecting firewood on the Sabbath. Moses and his followers ask God what punishment this man should receive.
God tells them in no uncertain terms to take the man into the village and stone him to death…
Does that sound vague to you?..Are you going to follow your own heart or the word of God?

How about we look at what the Church teaches?

From the Baltimore Catechism

Q. 1246. Name some of the good works recommended for Sunday.
A. Some of the good works recommended for Sunday are: The reading of religious books or papers, teaching Catechism, bringing relief to the poor or sick, visiting the Blessed Sacrament, attending Vespers, Rosary or other devotions in the Church; also attending the meetings of religious sodalities or societies. It is not necessary to spend the whole Sunday in such good works, but we should give some time to them, that for the love of God we may do a little more than what is strictly commanded.

Q. 1247. Is it forbidden, then, to seek any pleasure or enjoyment on Sunday?
A. It is not forbidden to seek lawful pleasure or enjoyment on Sunday, especially to those who are occupied during the week, for God did not intend the keeping of the Sunday to be a punishment, but a benefit to us. Therefore, after hearing Mass we may take such recreation as is necessary or useful for us; but we should avoid any vulgar, noisy or disgraceful amusements that turn the day of rest and prayer into a day of scandal and sin.

Q. 1252. What is forbidden by the third Commandment?
A. The third Commandment forbids all unnecessary servile work and whatever else may hinder the due observance of the Lord’s day.

Q. 1253. What are servile works?
A. Servile works are those which require labor rather of body than of mind.

Q. 1254. From what do servile works derive their name?
A. Servile works derive their name from the fact that such works were formerly done by slaves. Therefore, reading, writing, studying and, in general, all works that slaves did not perform are not considered servile works.

Q. 1255. Are servile works on Sunday ever lawful?
A. Servile works are lawful on Sundays when the honor of God, the good of our neighbor, or necessity requires them.

Q. 1256. Give some examples of when the honor of God, the good of our neighbor or necessity may require servile works on Sunday.
A. The honor of God, the good of our neighbor or necessity may require servile works on Sunday, in such cases as the preparation of a place for Holy Mass, the saving of property in storms or accidents, the cooking of meals and similar works.

Only** unecessary **servile (physical) labor is prohibited.

Cooking and cleaning for one’s family is fine. Wholesome recreation is encouraged.

Remember, “the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath”.

God Bless

 

[traillius]

We could carry this to extremes, but that would be silly. Anything required for health and safety does not violate the commandment to keep the sabbath holy. " which of you, if a sheep of yours falls into a ditch on the sabbath, will not reach to pull it out." If animals can be rescued, How much more can we care for our family. One can debate unnecessary work, and one may be correct. But for me at least, my disabled wife and 5 year old son depend on me to cook, clean, and repair my household, for their health and safety. ( And yes, clutter in my house is an extreme tripping hazard for my wife. ) Professionally, Fire, Police, EMS, Disaster relief, medical personnel (hospital) and Military need to be available 7 days a week. Otherwise, many would suffer needlessly.

 

[Magicsilence]

Although it was not my intent, I am glad that so far the thread has cleared up the issue of ‘servile work’, and that it should be avoided.

However, my focus was leaning more towards actions that are not servile work FOR US, but for others - such as going to a restaurant, or watching a soccer game (think - broadcasters, camera crew, stewards etc…).

What does the Church teach regarding our actions that force others to work on a Sunday?

 

[JSSebastianoP]

Although it was not my intent, I am glad that so far the thread has cleared up the issue of ‘servile work’, and that it should be avoided.

However, my focus was leaning more towards actions that are not servile work FOR US, but for others - such as going to a restaurant, or watching a soccer game (think - broadcasters, camera crew, stewards etc…).

What does the Church teach regarding our actions that force others to work on a Sunday?

And to revive an old thread, what about using public transportation on a Sunday (for purposes of recreation, like meeting a friend or going into a city or a different part of town)

Would it be sinful to use public transportation on a Sunday?

Pax,

J. S. Sebastiano P.

 

[Bookcat]

A good work to read.

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_ben-xvi_exh_20070222_sacramentum-caritatis_en.html#The_eucharistic_form_of_the_christian_life