..so what exactly is "bad company"?

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I’d certainly hate to twist St. Paul’s words, nor give the impression that my position carries any weight whatsoever. Nor would I like to pretend that I’ve the foggiest notion of what’s True, still…

As Rascalking pointed out, we’ve an apparent contradiction, what with Christ sitting down with sinners. As I see it then, it’s surely meritous to sit with sinners, and perhaps by communing with them draw them closer to Christ (us all being sinners, after all).

What it must be then, is the particular sort of sinners we must avoid. I should probably not hang out with prostitutes if I’m tempted to…consort with them. I oughtn’t to sit with drunkards if I’m inclined to join them in drunkenness. And so on.

And, even if that’s not what he’s saying, there must be some sense in the notion that we ought to know our own limitations and failings, and word accordingly around them.
 
cmscms said:
Hi Colmcille

What does WWJD mean?

With all due respect, I have no idea what the point is of your post. Since you quoted mine, I am assuming you are responding to something I said. But again, I have NO idea what you are trying to tell me

CM
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Sorry, cmscms! “What Would Jesus Do?” (WWJD) is the question that we might ask ourselves if in doubt of the propriety in keeping company with others. As in my sister’s case of which I wrote, what is appropriate may have undesirable consequences. THe AMDG is an old sign-off meaning Ad Marjoram Dei Gloriam/for the greater glory of God.
 
As for ‘I will hang out with these guys until some good Catholics come my way’. The chances of that happening are very slim. The good catholics think birds of a feather flock together and they will think you are just like your friends. Not to mention, I want good catholic friends. If you approached me in friendship and told me ‘Now that I have this good catholic friend I can dump all the partiers’. My first though would be ‘This guy is not loyal, when will he dump me’. You have to be a good catholic before you can be friends with good catholics.

I’m told I should not hang out with these people, but yet I would be labeled unloyal because I decided not hang out with them anymore? That kind of proves my point that abandoning these guys is not the moral thing to do, like I said earlier. And don’t worry about me losing my devotion to God. This conversion wasn’t just some cutesy phase I went into like a teenager who wants to be a rockstar. I’ve been dealt some pretty hard blows of reality through the writings of saints about the fewness saved, church documents, private revelations etc and I pretty much got “scared” into the faith and now and became scrupulous and for awhile went into despair and almost completely ruined my devotion. There was even a period where I was literally preparing for hell, because I knew I had no chance. I would stand around in extremely hot rooms, try not to drink any water, etc. That’s how down I was. I’ve lost alot of sleep and alot of weight stressing over this stuff, I’ve gotten anxiety attacks so bad over this, that at times I could literally feel the muscle and fat burning off my bones. I was going to live it up until the eventual death and eternal damnation, but thank the Lord, he dug me out of that whole even though I prolly don’t deserve it because of my actions. I’m finally starting to relax and little bit and embrace the faith more and not fear it. There’s no turning back for me. I know if I turn back, it’s all over for me. God bailed me out way too many times for me just to go back to my old ways. I have too strong a fear of hell and offending God to do that. I’ve came across maybe too much info for a person young in my faith should have came across. I’m not trying to start trouble with you or anything, but I think I’m being painted as very lukewarm and I just “fit in” or “try to be cool”, that’s really not the case. If you saw me with those group of friends, you would see I don’t dress like them, I don’t talk like them, I don’t think like them, I don’t act like them.
 
Ben_Sinner said:
As for ‘I will hang out with these guys until some good Catholics come my way’. The chances of that happening are very slim. The good catholics think birds of a feather flock together and they will think you are just like your friends. Not to mention, I want good catholic friends. If you approached me in friendship and told me ‘Now that I have this good catholic friend I can dump all the partiers’. My first though would be ‘This guy is not loyal, when will he dump me’. You have to be a good catholic before you can be friends with good catholics.

I’m told I should not hang out with these people, but yet I would be labeled unloyal because I decided not hang out with them anymore? That kind of proves my point that abandoning these guys is not the moral thing to do, like I said earlier. And don’t worry about me losing my devotion to God. This conversion wasn’t just some cutesy phase I went into like a teenager who wants to be a rockstar. I’ve been dealt some pretty hard blows of reality through the writings of saints about the fewness saved, church documents, private revelations etc and I pretty much got “scared” into the faith and now and became scrupulous and for awhile went into despair and almost completely ruined my devotion. There was even a period where I was literally preparing for hell, because I knew I had no chance. I would stand around in extremely hot rooms, try not to drink any water, etc. That’s how down I was. I’ve lost alot of sleep and alot of weight stressing over this stuff, I’ve gotten anxiety attacks so bad over this, that at times I could literally feel the muscle and fat burning off my bones. I was going to live it up until the eventual death and eternal damnation, but thank the Lord, he dug me out of that whole even though I prolly don’t deserve it because of my actions. I’m finally starting to relax and little bit and embrace the faith more and not fear it. There’s no turning back for me. I know if I turn back, it’s all over for me. God bailed me out way too many times for me just to go back to my old ways. I have too strong a fear of hell and offending God to do that. I’ve came across maybe too much info for a person young in my faith should have came across. I’m not trying to start trouble with you or anything, but I think I’m being painted as very lukewarm and I just “fit in” or “try to be cool”, that’s really not the case. If you saw me with those group of friends, you would see I don’t dress like them, I don’t talk like them, I don’t think like them, I don’t act like them.
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Maybe a different way to look at this is that instead of keeping “bad company” is that you should no longer engage in “bad behavior”. Invite your friends to do other stuff, that doesn’t involve your old lifestyle. You will soon find out if those old friendships you’re worrying about being loyal to were really relationships based on respect, kindness and trust or were they based on the immoral activities you engaged in.

Plus keep in mind, you may be setting yourself up to it has to be either/or situation. You are not going to find absolute perfectly devouted Catholics. You wil find devouted Catholics that fight the good fight everyday and still come up short. And not all the activities you listed may necessarily be “bad” either. Catholics can “party” and enjoy alcohol and the company of the opposite sex. It doesn’t have to be totally wild parties or absolute nothing. There can be a happy medium, as long as you respect yourself and the company you keep.
 
PatriceA said:
Maybe a different way to look at this is that instead of keeping “bad company” is that you should no longer engage in “bad behavior”. Invite your friends to do other stuff, that doesn’t involve your old lifestyle. You will soon find out if those old friendships you’re worrying about being loyal to were really relationships based on respect, kindness and trust or were they based on the immoral activities you engaged in.
.
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That’s exactly what I’m doing now.
 
I agree with PatriceA

Perhaps I did not make my point properly. If the only reason you are dumping those friends is because you found someone better, then that I no being a loyal Catholic.

If you are dumping those friends because you have outgrown them and can no longer do common social activities with them that is growing in faith

Does that make sense?

CM
 
You found God while hanging with these people.

I’m not too worried that they will bring you down. They haven’t kept you down thus far.

If you clean up your act and hang with them, you might be the only light they have in a dark world.

Alan
 
cmscms said:
I agree with PatriceA

Perhaps I did not make my point properly. If the only reason you are dumping those friends is because you found someone better, then that I no being a loyal Catholic.

If you are dumping those friends because you have outgrown them and can no longer do common social activities with them that is growing in faith

Does that make sense?

CM
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yah
 
I think that your existing friendships will change as a consequence of your conversion. I’m sure there will be people who won’t mind the change in you and might even find it inspiring, but perhaps there will be those that will not like it. Maybe the ‘bad company’ will lose you.
Just stay firm and be a good example and a good friend. I think that’s the most you can do. Someone commented that you can’t convert people - God does that. I agree. We can try very hard with others and see no results, which can be quite disheartening. But sometimes we are not even aware of the influenece we make on others, and maybe we’ll never know.

I wouldn’t be focused so much on this. Just live your life as best as you can and God will use you and your gifts, whether you are aware of it or not.
 
Here are some links to teachings concerning “bad company” written by some famous Catholic saints and authors:

St John Vianney (Cure of Ars) in his Sermons on “Bad company”:

icatholicism.com/literature/sermons-of-st.-john-vianney-cure-of-ars/bad-company.html

St Francis de Sales on “true friendships” & “evil friendships” in Introduction to the Devout Life:
  1. On Friendship: Evil and Frivolous Friendship:
catholictreasury.info/books/devout_life/dev61.php
  1. On Frivolous Attachments:
catholictreasury.info/books/devout_life/dev62.php
  1. Of Real Friendship:
    catholictreasury.info/books/devout_life/dev63.php
  2. Of the Difference between True and False Friendship:
catholictreasury.info/books/devout_life/dev64.php
  1. Remedies against Evil Friendships:
    catholictreasury.info/books/devout_life/dev65.php
  2. Further Advice concerning Intimacies
    catholictreasury.info/books/devout_life/dev66.php
Thomas a Kempis on “over-familiarity” with others in The Imitation of Christ:

catholictreasury.info/books/imitation_of_Christ/im7.php

St Alphonsus de Liguori on “avoiding bad company” in Sermons for all the Sundays in the Year:

See: SERMON XL1L Thirteenth Sunday after Pentecost : On avoiding bad company at 313:
archive.org/details/sermonsforallsun00liguuoft

🙂
 
Further to the above discussions, I just finished reading an excellent book on the topic of true friendship called True Friendship Where Virtue becomes Happiness by Dr John Cuddeback (Epic Publishing; 2nd Revised edition (June 2010)) available here: amazon.com/Friendship-Art-Happiness-John-Cuddeback/dp/0974074403/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1410528054&sr=1-1

I also listened to Dr Cuddeback’s talk at Catholic Courses and read the accompanying course book which I thought was excellent as well. Available here: catholiccourses.benedictpress.com/index.php/True-Friendship

Professor Germain Grisez also discusses this question in his book Difficult Moral Questions (Alba House Society of St. Paul (January 1, 2004) at Question 25, available here: amazon.com/Difficult-Moral-Questions-Lord-Jesus/dp/0818912707/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1410528550&sr=1-1&keywords=Difficult+moral+questions

Professor Grisez has posted an online version of the book and Question 25 may be viewed here: twotlj.org/G-3-25.html

Both Dr Cuddeback’s and Professor Grisez’ books have received the Nihil Obstat and Imprimatur.

Cheers! 🙂
 
Ben_Sinner said:
…other than a band from the 70’s…but seriously…I’ve been told it’s a sin to hang out with bad company, but my problem is just about every person I know could fall into the category of “bad company”. My friends, my roomates, my co-workers…even my parents are bad company because they don’t like my catholic lifestyle. Technically I’m bad company because I’m a sinner. So what’s the situation here?
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If you know of a person who leads you into committing grave sin by their words and behavior, then quit their company – they are bad company. God bless you.
 
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