So what is the Catechesis for standing for Communion?

[Eilish_Maura]

j
So for a thousand years the entire Western Church has been playing holier than thou? It’s all that simple, eh? Wow, you’re sure quick to impugn the motives of countless Christians.

And, I need to point out, you have no basis for your low opinion of a thousand years of Western Christianity. Because the USCCB has not released the promised catechesis. Unless you speak with the authority of the USCCB, your particular theories have no relevance to the question asked in this thread.

As this poster said of me the same applies to all here.

So far no one has shown their credentials to speak with the authority of the USCCB.

Guess they might as well close the thread now.

 

[Brendan]

I do not believe anything you have mentioned speaks to the issue of standing.

Eilish,

YOU were the one who mentioned the practices of the Early Church, and how worthy there are of emulation. Are you now saying that those practices are irrelevant?

YOU were also the one who suggested that we should emulate the practices of a large growth period in our Church. If that is the case, why not emulate the practices of the LARGEST growth period, the Tridentine?

Standing or kneeling is not the same as the Sacrament but discipline and procedure based. Both have been seen as reverent and appropriate - to seek what is the Catechesis for standing one needs to seek what was seen as reverent when it was done in the early Church.

Why should we not also seek the Catecheses of why the Early Church had such long, harsh penaces and how the penitent stood at the front of the church to confess.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Eilish,

YOU were the one who mentioned the practices of the Early Church, and how worthy there are of emulation. Are you now saying that those practices are irrelevant?

YOU were also the one who suggested that we should emulate the practices of a large growth period in our Church. If that is the case, why not emulate the practices of the LARGEST growth period, the Tridentine?

Why should we not also seek the Catecheses of why the Early Church had such long, harsh penaces and how the penitent stood at the front of the church to confess.

I mentioned to look at the whys etc of what they did.

They are part of our tradition as much as anything else.

But this exchange is for naught as neither of us speaks for the USCCB right?

 

[stmaria]

But the question is, where did Eucharisticum Mysterium get its “idea” for receiving Holy Communion “either kneeling or standing”? The posture is not mentioned in Sacrosanctum Concilium, nor any document between it and EM. When it says “the custom of the Church”, is it talking about the Latin Rite Church, or the entire Catholic Church? In other words, is it mixing Traditions, and if so, why?

The idea for standing came out of the Consilium that wrote the New Mass. It was made acceptabe with the Consilium instruction Eucharisticum Mysterium adoremus.org/eucharisticummysterium.html

1. The Way of Receiving Communion
   a) In accordance with the custom of the Church, Communion may be received by the faithful either kneeling or standing. One or the other way is to be chosen, according to the decision of the episcopal conference, bearing in mind all the circumstances, above all the number of the faithful and the arrangement of the churches. The faithful should willingly adopt the method indicated by their pastors, so that Communion may truly be a sign of the brotherly union of all those who share in the same table of the Lord.

b) When the faithful communicate kneeling, no other sign of reverence toward the Blessed Sacrament is required, since kneeling is itself a sign of adoration.

When they receive Communion standing, it is strongly recommended that, coming up in procession, they should make a sign of reverence before receiving the Blessed Sacrament. This should be done at the right time and place, so that the order of people going to and from Communion may not be disrupted."

This document also allowed communion under both kinds. It would be difficult to receive from the Chalice kneeling if front of a communion rail which still existed at the time, so in my opinion, they had to allow the option of standing to receive from the Chalice. Over time standing has become the norm for both the host and chalice in the New Mass especially after the communion rails were removed in the majority of Churches.
In Father Bugnini’s book* Reform of the Liturgy* he shows that there was some opposition from Cardinal Larraona, a member of the Consilium and president of the pre-council commission that wrote the Constitution. The Cardinal said, “in order to protect orthodox belief in the real presence, reception of communion while standing be allowed only as an exception” He then states that the Canon should not be said aloud, “since this would be the first step of the vernacular into the Canon”

Bugnini states, “These ideas were unacceptable”

 

[VociMike]

…Consilium instruction Eucharisticum Mysterium adoremus.org/eucharisticummysterium.html

1. The Way of Receiving Communion
   a) In accordance with the custom of the Church, Communion may be received by the faithful either kneeling or standing. One or the other way is to be chosen, according to the decision of the episcopal conference, bearing in mind all the circumstances, above all the number of the faithful and the arrangement of the churches.

Now that is fascinating. Makes it sound like the change was based, not on theological considerations, but on utilitarian factors. Above all, the number of the faithful and the arrangement of the churches.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

The last thread where I asked this died, without one Catholic response. The aussie thread brought this back to my mind…

“160. The norm for reception of Holy Communion in the dioceses of the United States is standing. Communicants should not be denied Holy Communion because they kneel. Rather, such instances should be addressed pastorally, by providing the faithful with proper catechesis on the reasons for this norm.”

What is the catechesis? I think that this was put in to make us ask this question, as I have not seen a good answer.
Is there a good Catholic answer?

Unity is not a good answer because if we all kneeled then it doesn’t make a difference.

Because the early Church stood, that is a lousy answer because it discounts tradition and development of reverence.

Because Eastern Catholics stand, is not correct because we this thread is about Roman Catholics.

So can someone please resolve this for me because I will continue to stand until I we get an altar rail put in and recieve communion as we should. Am I wrong in thinking this?

Is there any reason not to bring back the rail? Vatican II certain says nothing about removing it.

God Bless
Scylla

Going back to your opening post it seems you have set us all up to fail as none of us can resolve this for you on behalf of the Church.

 

[scylla]

Going back to your opening post it seems you have set us all up to fail as none of us can resolve this for you on behalf of the Church.

Only if there is no such Catechesis. I did not know if there was, so, hence the thread.

I can resolve many things on behalf of the Church very easy.

Example…
What is the teaching behind the difference between mortal and venial sins and why do we practice confession?
Easy…

1Jn 5:16-17 Mortal and Venial
CCC 1443-45: This is why.

I just spoke on behalf of the Church showing the understanding behind the practice of confession.

God Bless
Scylla

 

[CradleCath]

Is the ability to install altar rails vital to anything?

Didn’t ‘get to that point’?? That does not make much sense unless you know of official writings and teachings where they bemoaned the inability to have altar rails and receive kneeling.

What dogma is rejected by standing for Communion?

The early Church is also part of our tradition - should we dismiss them so easily as a lesser part of the Church in preference for some other part?

We should reject NO part of our Tradition (captital T) …custom is another area entirely. I, in particularly, loved the custom of lighting a votive candle in Church for those who are suffering. For others this is no big deal & the custom has pretty much died out. However, I would NEVER give up our teaching re the Assumption. So, in your opinion, is standing to receive the Body of Christ… Tradtition or custom??

1. The council said (in SC.) that "the use of the Latin language is to be preserved in the Latin rites
2. The Council **never mentions **the priest facing the people, as opposed to the 2,000 year old tradition of the priest facing the east, where Christ will come again in glory. Nor does it mention the removal of altars and altar rails.

Perhaps you can tell US what dogma is/was rejected by Communion on the tongue & kneeling to receive.

Now, you seem to be arguing against altar rails, Communion received on the tongue & a whole lot of things…in different threads. Makes me wonder exactly WHY you are participating in Traditional threads???

 

[BayernAnhaenger]

Here’s my guess.

1. Some people can’t kneel. This is really obvious at daily mass where I’m 56 and the youngest one in the congregation by far.
2. Without the altar rails, it would slow communion down considerably if everybody in line took the time to get on their knees (at the risk of not being able to get back up without help).

I’m not dismissing the tradition based comments, or theological ones, but it could be that it’s the norm for purely practical reasons.

Wrong-o on number two. If it was handled like it is in the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite, then it would hardly slow things down.