So when all is said and done, why the heck do Catholics vote Democrat??

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**How to connect this with Apologetics. Hmm… here is an attempt: We would all become better defenders of our faith if we really understood what is actually happening in our country, because it is in reality a fight to the death for our very survival - our heritage, and certainly, Catholicism, our economy, our country.

So… full spectrum dominance. Does everyone understand what this is? Both parties are completely controlled by money coming from … well, I know where.

So… we have lost control in our own country. I did not vote. Obama didn’t win naturally; the election was fixed massively. Do the research; not conspiracy theory, fact.

Here is a quote about what is REALLY going on with the United States, and it has been going on for many decades:

I will not say who said this, to protect myself from accusations from moderators; perhaps the reader will be able to deduce who. But, someone DID say this… and it DOES directly refer to the United States. If you do figure out which head of state is the speaker, you have proven you understand which highly compact unit is shaping our country, and severely limiting discourse here, on ALL ISSUES OF DOMESTIC IMPORTANCE. NONE of those interests are being served, and the same is true in the countries of Europe,

But, Europe is FAR more awake than we are, and it is OUR country highlighted below.

Most people in our country do not understand what is happening.

‘Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away. . .’
  • head of state, 2002**
 
I don’t think that the majority of America cares enough about the murder of 50million unborn children through abortion–if a majoritry of America did care we wouldn’t have allowed their killing.

Just think about that a minute–America doesn’t care about their killing.

I don’t care if any candidate from ANY party was right on every issue that could be contemplated in the history of the mind of man–if ANY candidate is for the murder of the unborn in the womb that person belongs with the devil!

All the social welfare in the history of the universe does not equal the murder of one innocent child in their mother’s womb.

People that don’t get that really are on the road to Hell!

That’s not to say that social welfare is not important–it is to say that it is ALWAYS LESS important than the life of one unborn child and it is ALWAYS trumped b y the life of one unborn child!

If you hate the Republican party then by all means start a Pro-Life Democratic party or if you don’t want that start a Pro-Life Third party that is also for social welfare if that is important to you.

Catholics need to educate Catholics that abortion = Hell!

It is POSSIBLE for a Catholic to knowingly vote for a pro-abortion candidate–not to be repentant for doing so even after KNOWING the Catholic church’s teaching on the matter–have a wreck leaving the polling place–and spend eternity in Hell for dying in a sense of mortal sin! Vote for abortion could possibly mean HELL!

I have stated this reality out of LOVE for any Catholic who might do such a thing so they will decide not to do such a thing.

If you don’t remember any thing I’ve said just remember this: a vote for abortion puts your soul in danger of Hell!
 
Jerry-Jet said:
I don’t think that the majority of America cares enough about the murder of 50million unborn children through abortion–if a majoritry of America did care we wouldn’t have allowed their killing.

Just think about that a minute–America doesn’t care about their killing.

I don’t care if any candidate from ANY party was right on every issue that could be contemplated in the history of the mind of man–if ANY candidate is for the murder of the unborn in the womb that person belongs with the devil!

All the social welfare in the history of the universe does not equal the murder of one innocent child in their mother’s womb.

People that don’t get that really are on the road to Hell!

That’s not to say that social welfare is not important–it is to say that it is ALWAYS LESS important than the life of one unborn child and it is ALWAYS trumped b y the life of one unborn child!

If you hate the Republican party then by all means start a Pro-Life Democratic party or if you don’t want that start a Pro-Life Third party that is also for social welfare if that is important to you.

Catholics need to educate Catholics that abortion = Hell!

It is POSSIBLE for a Catholic to knowingly vote for a pro-abortion candidate–not to be repentant for doing so even after KNOWING the Catholic church’s teaching on the matter–have a wreck leaving the polling place–and spend eternity in Hell for dying in a sense of mortal sin! Vote for abortion could possibly mean HELL!

I have stated this reality out of LOVE for any Catholic who might do such a thing so they will decide not to do such a thing.

If you don’t remember any thing I’ve said just remember this: a vote for abortion puts your soul in danger of Hell!
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But if a choice is between two pro-abortion candidates, as it has been for both elections I’ve been old enough to vote for, then you are still under a civic duty to vote. You are allowed to vote the lesser of two evils if abstaining from voting could allow the more evil one to be elected.
 
Why would a Catholic vote Republican ?

Republicans are pro-death: They are war mongers leading to much death, they pro death penalty.

Republicans are a racist bunch ever since they let in the Dixiecrats. Its getting better but there was a time the Republicans were the party of blacks and browns, that stopped with Nixon and his racist southern strategy.

They do not care about the poor at all, or the sick or the elderly. Not very Christ like there.

Republicans have a history of being anti-catholic. Not so much of late but theres a reason the first Catholic President was a Democrat.

So yeah why can’t good catholics vote democrat, they are certainly just as bad and/or good as voting Republican.

I vote third party btw because both parties are corrupt and evil.

So in the end what I’m saying is one could say Voting Republican is not very Catholic/Christian either.
 
Steep said:
I’d like to know.

The religion preaches pro-life, anti gay marriage, pro-traditional values, yet in every presidential election without fail, the Democratic candidate wins the Catholic vote.

Do Catholic voters realize they help to elect leaders who are against everything they believe in???
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Actually, the Catholic vote broke for Bush in 2000 if I recall.

But as to why, well, several reasons:
  1. Some may wish to reform the party from within. They are the Casey the Elders, the Rebecca Hamiltons, the State Senator Robertis of the world. We should as people of good will help them.
  2. Some may vote for the Democratic candidate, not because of their stances on life issues, but in spite of them. One may vote for such a candidate, if they are not doing so because they approve of the immoral stances of a candidate, especially where both candidates openly advocate intrinsic evils. Now whether such an act is prudent is another issue, but in and of itself it’s not a sin to vote for Obama (though I personally did not).
  3. Some may vote Democratic in spite of their convictions because they feel the Republican Party or its politicians always act in a manner detrimental to their interests, of course, not always unreasonably. This describes a lot of, say, Spanish-speaking voters, who feel alienated by all the other parties, especially considering the use of the Spanish language, immigration, SB1070 and so on.
  4. Then there are the cultural Catholics, who could not give a rodent’s rear about what the Church teaches on anything - the unborn, captial punishment, war, marriage, etc., etc. They vote Democrat because they’re practical deists like many of their Protestant neighbors.
What percentage of Catholic Democrats belong in each is a bit hazy, though the fact that 1/3 of the party is pro-life is a good indicator at least of how much of them are in groups 1 and 2.

Look, I’m a Republican. I proudly went for Romney last year, volunteered on Republican campaigns, was a member of the CRs. But the actual act of voting, as a moral act, depends a lot on intentions. If one voted for a candiate, for example, because he supported abortion, that’s a sin. If you voted for a candidate in spite of such, for another reason entirely, that’s not a sin, though I personally would question their prudence personally.
 
bitznbitez said:
In a word “Inertia.”

Go back to mid 1800’s when Lincoln running for state office promised to protect everyone from the Catholic immigrants. Read up on the Know Nothings and Nativist stuff which did merge into the roots of the GOP. Regardless the quibbles around precisely how that happened you wound up with a largely democrat voting group of catholic immigrants.

Fastforward to today. The big shift away on the morals front, abortion and homosexuality etc. issues in the Democratic party has been very recent. Thus you have a lot of life long democrats, who have been that way for generations, still voting democrat despite opposing some of these issues, along with another set that are actually in favor of things contrary to church teaching.

Thats it in a nutshell.

What happens going forward is anyones guess.
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In fact, recent enough as the 1990s. Fun fact - pro-life Democrats could hold leadership positions even in such liberal strongholds as California as late as the mid 90s. The defining moment when the lifestyle left definitely took over was when Casey the Elder was refused a spot at the DNC because he was unabashedly pro-life, despite abortion not being on the platform on that time and him being otherwise a good liberal Democrat.
 
mymamamary said:
**Again, I must state:

Even if my vote would not have counted for the saving of a Baby’s life, at least my vote would not be for those who are actively** and blatantly promoting evil. In addition to this, My above post was not meant to be an insult (except for the brain fart and Joe Biden being as dumb as a doornail) but as a tragic lament at the damage that moral relativism, and thus by extension, poor catechesis, have wrought inside Our Church.
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You live in Canada, where all the major parties are pro-choice on a practical level leadership-wise. How would you vote pro-life in that case?
 
SMGS127 said:
We’re ultimately not going to agree on what voting through conscience means. You see it as a necessity to vote for the person who talks about ending abortions the most, even if they don’t actually care about abortion and won’t actually do anything to protect those little ones. I look at it by the effect of my vote. I repeat again: if my vote were to cause one baby to be saved, I would change it. But since I know there is no difference in abortion law until at least 2016, I continue on to other issues.
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Isn’t it great how under the current administration girls of any age can get a morning after abortion pill? The executive branch appoints leaders of the FDA, other agencies and judges, so I think who you vote for does matter.
 
Quoting from the 2012 Democratic Party Platform:
“Protecting A Woman’s Right to Choose. The Democratic Party strongly and unequivocally supports Roe v. Wade and a woman’s right to make decisions regarding her pregnancy, including a safe and legal abortion, regardless of ability to pay. We oppose any and all efforts to weaken or undermine that right.”
 
JimG said:
Quoting from the 2012 Democratic Party Platform:
“Protecting A Woman’s Right to Choose. The Democratic Party strongly and unequivocally supports Roe v. Wade and a woman’s right to make decisions regarding her pregnancy, including a safe and legal abortion, regardless of ability to pay. We oppose any and all efforts to weaken or undermine that right.”
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Because everyone has to completely conform to every single platform position to join a party? Come on now.
 
Rdunbar123 said:
Isn’t it great how under the current administration girls of any age can get a morning after abortion pill? The executive branch appoints leaders of the FDA, other agencies and judges, so I think who you vote for does matter.
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The seventh mode of responsibility says that we as Catholics have to act in the manner that has the most moral EFFECTS, and cannot argue that an act is moral unless it has moral effects. The third mode of responsibility says that we as Carholics can not act out of hostility but must act in defense of morals after reasoned thought.

Voting for Romney out of hostility for Obama without regard for the fact that Romney has just as bad of a pro-abortion history just because he really really swears he cares about the unborn now is a violation of both. I have no doubts that Romney would have legalized Plan B just as soon as Obama did in response to the court order, because he doesn’t actually care about the issue.

It’s one thing to say that studying Romney and Obama’s histories, you came to the rational conclusion that Romney would lead to more moral consequences. It is quite another to blind yourself to the pro-abortion record of Romney out of dislike for a man. We as Catholics cannot morally vote against someone. We must instead size up every situation and make a satisfactory, foot-forward, positive choice, even if “positive” has to mean “lesser evil.” To me, ultimately, a vote for Obama can lead to a pro-life candidate in 2016, whereas a vote for Romney would’ve ensured a 3rd consecutive election with two pro-abortion candidates.
 
Steep said:
I’d like to know.

The religion preaches pro-life, anti gay marriage, pro-traditional values, yet in every presidential election without fail, the Democratic candidate wins the Catholic vote.

Do Catholic voters realize they help to elect leaders who are against everything they believe in???
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For one thing, most baptized Catholics aren’t very religious. Secondly, many people see the alternative, the Republican party, as corrupt, and populated by good old white boys. Many Catholics are non-White.

Not everyone votes on moral issues that people in office don’t seem to be able to solve. The abortion issue, as an example, has been used as a political football for years without any progress. The majority of Americans are more concerned with their own survival and vote in a way that they think will help themselves. That’s why the economy is the number one motivator.

The Democrats promise to stimulate the economy by taxing the rich and helping the poor. That appeals to a lot of Catholics who resent the rich. The Republicans, in their eyes, are the party of the rich folk.
 
SMGS127 said:
Because everyone has to completely conform to every single platform position to join a party? Come on now.
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Well, anyone who supports that plank supports intrinsic evil. And I don’t know if any Dems have publicly disavowed themselves from the pro-abortion plank. Even having a pro-abortion plank in the platform pretty much vitiates the moral acceptability of the party.

I would also note that the party platform has become increasingly pro-abortion ever since the elder Robert Casey was denied a speaking slot at the 1992 convention because of his pro-life views. (The younger Casey, of course is pro-abortion.)
 
mymamamary said:
SMGS127;10949817:
**No. my argument extends to the modern democrats. Not to Robert Casey. The modern democrats are the one who are actively propagating evil. **
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That is right .There has been a shift .Todays republicans are yesterday’s democrats .Today’s democrats are yesterdays commy wackos or something worse than liberal.Today’s dems are dyslexic.,“Ask not what you can do for your country, but ask what your country can do for you”. Just watch the conventions.
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It’s sure not for the economy since that went into the tank. And it’s not to keep us out of wars since we are still in them. So the only the only thing left is they agree with the the Democrat party’s platform and believe in so-called “same-sex marriage” and that abortion is a right. I wonder how many of these Catholics were the ones who were shouting for God to be taken out at the DNC convention.
 
SMGS127 said:
The seventh mode of responsibility says that we as Catholics have to act in the manner that has the most moral EFFECTS, and cannot argue that an act is moral unless it has moral effects. The third mode of responsibility says that we as Carholics can not act out of hostility but must act in defense of morals after reasoned thought.

Voting for Romney out of hostility for Obama without regard for the fact that Romney has just as bad of a pro-abortion history just because he really really swears he cares about the unborn now is a violation of both. I have no doubts that Romney would have legalized Plan B just as soon as Obama did in response to the court order, because he doesn’t actually care about the issue.

It’s one thing to say that studying Romney and Obama’s histories, you came to the rational conclusion that Romney would lead to more moral consequences. It is quite another to blind yourself to the pro-abortion record of Romney out of dislike for a man. We as Catholics cannot morally vote against someone. We must instead size up every situation and make a satisfactory, foot-forward, positive choice, even if “positive” has to mean “lesser evil.” To me, ultimately, a vote for Obama can lead to a pro-life candidate in 2016, whereas a vote for Romney would’ve ensured a 3rd consecutive election with two pro-abortion candidates.
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You are making a major leap of illogic to take from my statements that I dislike the president. Just like he is subject to the platform of the democrat party which promotes abortion, Romney would be subject to the platform of the Republican Party which opposes abortion.
You have every right to ease your conscience however you want. By the way you may want to see what the predominant race of people named Dunbar is before implying I’m a racist.
 
When a party’s presidential candidate states his support for legal abortion, when he opposes his state’s born alive infant protection act, when he supports his party platform in support of unlimited taxpayer funded abortion, I think we have every right to take him at his word.
 
JimG said:
When a party’s presidential candidate states his support for legal abortion, when he opposes his state’s born alive infant protection act, when he supports his party platform in support of unlimited taxpayer funded abortion, I think we have every right to take him at his word.
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And it’s not just his words, it’s in his actions. It seems like whatever the bishops say he does the opposite.
 
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