So where do I stand?

[olorin12]

I am a former Lutheran, until recently in RCIA. I am Catholic in belief. While I was in RCIA, the RCIA director told me that I was able to go to Confession, and I have done so several times. I have also been attending Mass every Sunday.
Because of scheduling, I have been unable to attend RCIA every session - I have missed about half of the sessions.
I have recently decided that I would like to join the Anglican Ordinariate. I almost joined the Episcopal Church when I first became a Christian, and I love the Anglican (as well as Anglican Use Catholic) liturgy. There is an independent Anglican church nearby that is Ordinariate-bound. I intend to join the Catholic Church through them.

My questions:

Since I have already gone to Confession in a Catholic Church, would it be a sin for me to join the Anglican church, even though they are going to join the Catholic Church through the Ordinariate?

If it is ok for me to join them, will I be obligated to attend Mass at a Catholic Church as well while I am waiting for the Anglican congregation to join the Catholic Church?

The priests at the Anglican church have orders that come from the Old Catholic church (among others), so their orders are valid, but illicit, as far as Rome is concerned. Does this mean that they are able to validly absolve, and able to confect the Eucharist?

Thanks in advance.

 

[FabiusMaximus]

I am a former Lutheran, until recently in RCIA. I am Catholic in belief. While I was in RCIA, the RCIA director told me that I was able to go to Confession, and I have done so several times. I have also been attending Mass every Sunday.
Because of scheduling, I have been unable to attend RCIA every session - I have missed about half of the sessions.
I have recently decided that I would like to join the Anglican Ordinariate. I almost joined the Episcopal Church when I first became a Christian, and I love the Anglican (as well as Anglican Use Catholic) liturgy. There is an independent Anglican church nearby that is Ordinariate-bound. I intend to join the Catholic Church through them.

My questions:

Since I have already gone to Confession in a Catholic Church, would it be a sin for me to join the Anglican church, even though they are going to join the Catholic Church through the Ordinariate?

If it is ok for me to join them, will I be obligated to attend Mass at a Catholic Church as well while I am waiting for the Anglican congregation to join the Catholic Church?

The priests at the Anglican church have orders that come from the Old Catholic church (among others), so their orders are valid, but illicit, as far as Rome is concerned. Does this mean that they are able to validly absolve, and able to confect the Eucharist?

Thanks in advance.

Hi, I have a couple of questions:

• What do you mean by “joining the Catholic Church through the Ordinariate”? Could you explain it for simpletons like me?
• I thought the Old Catholic Church was both invalid and illicit, given the recent massive divergences with the Roman Catholic Church? But if they are not, I presume that it’s not recommended you attempt to receive absolution from an illicit Church. Technically, if I’m correct, the Orthodox Church has entirely valid though illicit sacraments according to Rome (I clarified according to Rome! Don’t cream me Orthodox ), and they would recommend you not go through the sacraments through an Orthodox parish.

 

[Corki]

Lay people do not belong to the Anglican Ordinariate. That is the designation for the priests who convert. If you were to become Anglican - in the parish you describe or another, you would, at some point, need to convert to Catholicism. As I understand it, that involves a (possibly) stream-lined version of RCIA and a profession of Faith into the Catholic Church.

It seems to me that you are adding on an extra step to your journey into the Catholic Church. If you continue in the path you have already started, you can always join the parish that is now Anglican - if and when they switch over. Anyone can attend an Anglican use Mass.

 

[manualman]

The priests at the Anglican church have orders that come from the Old Catholic church (among others), so their orders are valid, but illicit, as far as Rome is concerned.

You’re in a tough spot with my sympathies. I understand why you say the above, but be aware that this an assertion made by Anglican theologians of the catholic bent, not something you will find any actual Roman concurrence with. You’d be betting the validity of the sacraments you wish to receive on the strength of your comprehension.
Betcha dollars to donuts that upn receipt into the Catholic church, those Anglican priests will be at least conditionally ordained (sort of a safety net in against potential invalidity in their Anglican ordination possibly concelebrated with an Old Catholic bishop)

Were I in that situation, it wouldn’t be enough. Consider joing both a Latin rite parish and your future Anglican Ordinariate parish. Goto the ordinary parish mass Saturday nights, attend Anglican mass(?) on Sundays without receiving communion until things are normalized.

Sorry the above sounds so legalistic and formal. We catholics just ribbed for that a lot. It’s just hard to avoid it when you value reason highly.

 

[olorin12]

Corki - laity do not become members of the Ordinariate? I was under the impression that they do. Can you give any documentation for that?

Manualman - I thought that the Church recognized Old Catholic orders as valid. Do you have any documentation which says otherwise?

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

It seems to me that you are adding on an extra step to your journey into the Catholic Church. If you continue in the path you have already started, you can always join the parish that is now Anglican - if and when they switch over. Anyone can attend an Anglican use Mass.

My thoughts too. Why not convert into CC and join the Ordinariate when they convert?

If you like Anglican liturgy I’m sure you’d enjoy EF mass.

 

[manualman]

Manualman - I thought that the Church recognized Old Catholic orders as valid. Do you have any documentation which says otherwise?

We aren’t talking about an Old Catholic parish here, we’re talking about an Anglican parish in which the priestly ordination was concelebrated by an Anglican bishop AND an Old Catholic bishop. Rome’s policy is not new and hasn’t changed since the papal document Apostolicae Curae (AC) was issued (online). In short, it discerns Anglican orders to be invalid.

Anglicans assert that the concelebration by the Old Catholic bishop negates the RC logic of AC, but until/unless Rome says otherwise, AC is the policy on Anglican orders.

 

[grandfather]

I am a former Lutheran, until recently in RCIA. I am Catholic in belief. While I was in RCIA, the RCIA director told me that I was able to go to Confession, and I have done so several times. I have also been attending Mass every Sunday.
Because of scheduling, I have been unable to attend RCIA every session - I have missed about half of the sessions.
I have recently decided that I would like to join the Anglican Ordinariate. I almost joined the Episcopal Church when I first became a Christian, and I love the Anglican (as well as Anglican Use Catholic) liturgy. There is an independent Anglican church nearby that is Ordinariate-bound. I intend to join the Catholic Church through them.

My questions:

Since I have already gone to Confession in a Catholic Church, would it be a sin for me to join the Anglican church, even though they are going to join the Catholic Church through the Ordinariate?

If it is ok for me to join them, will I be obligated to attend Mass at a Catholic Church as well while I am waiting for the Anglican congregation to join the Catholic Church?

The priests at the Anglican church have orders that come from the Old Catholic church (among others), so their orders are valid, but illicit, as far as Rome is concerned. Does this mean that they are able to validly absolve, and able to confect the Eucharist?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Jim_Dandy]

Hi, I have a couple of questions:

• What do you mean by “joining the Catholic Church through the Ordinariate”? Could you explain it for simpletons like me?
• I thought the Old Catholic Church was both invalid and illicit, given the recent massive divergences with the Roman Catholic Church? But if they are not, I presume that it’s not recommended you attempt to receive absolution from an illicit Church. **Technically, if I’m correct, the Orthodox Church has entirely valid though illicit sacraments according to Rome (I clarified according to Rome! Don’t cream me Orthodox **), and they would recommend you not go through the sacraments through an Orthodox parish.

Replying to the part of your post that is now in bold,

A) the priests and bishops of Orthodox Churches are ordained in Apostolic Succession, and their sacraments (mysteries) are perfectly vaid. The Catholic Church does not consider them illicit in any way.

B) what “recent massive divergences” with the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church?

 

[grandfather]

I am a former Lutheran, until recently in RCIA. I am Catholic in belief. While I was in RCIA, the RCIA director told me that I was able to go to Confession, and I have done so several times. I have also been attending Mass every Sunday.
Because of scheduling, I have been unable to attend RCIA every session - I have missed about half of the sessions.
I have recently decided that I would like to join the Anglican Ordinariate. I almost joined the Episcopal Church when I first became a Christian, and I love the Anglican (as well as Anglican Use Catholic) liturgy. There is an independent Anglican church nearby that is Ordinariate-bound. I intend to join the Catholic Church through them.

My questions:

Since I have already gone to Confession in a Catholic Church, would it be a sin for me to join the Anglican church, even though they are going to join the Catholic Church through the Ordinariate?

If it is ok for me to join them, will I be obligated to attend Mass at a Catholic Church as well while I am waiting for the Anglican congregation to join the Catholic Church?

The priests at the Anglican church have orders that come from the Old Catholic church (among others), so their orders are valid, but illicit, as far as Rome is concerned. Does this mean that they are able to validly absolve, and able to confect the Eucharist?

Thanks in advance.

It is questionable that your RCIA director advised you correctly. Sacramental confession is for Catholics. There are extraordinary circumstances that would allow a priest to hear the confession of a non-Catholic and your case may come under those, but you did not say there was anything unusual about your situation.

You can enter the Church through any church or group that is recognized by Rome as Catholic. If you enter through a group that has valid orders, but is in schism, you would be a schismatic. If you want to be Catholic why would you join a church that is not Catholic, or not yet Catholic? If you like their liturgy better, why not become Catholic and be certain about it rather than get into an irregular situation? They may never join the ordinatiate.

I know a man who was a seminarian many years ago. He became convinced that Rome was going to allow married priests. He left the seminary and married with the intention of returning after the inevitable happened.

 

[RebeccaJ]

Corki - laity do not become members of the Ordinariate? I was under the impression that they do. Can you give any documentation for that?

Manualman - I thought that the Church recognized Old Catholic orders as valid. Do you have any documentation which says otherwise?

usordinariate.org/faq.html

**How do priests and groups join the ordinariate?
**

Anglican priests seeking to enter the Catholic Church under an ordinariate may apply to be ordained as Catholic priests after a period of preparation.

Groups seeking to be part of the ordinariate will undergo a process of catechesis involving the use of the United States Catechism for Adults that was approved by the ad hoc Committee on the Implementation of Anglicanorum coetibus.

**What is the process for an Anglican community to become a member of the ordinariate?
**

The Anglican community would apply to the Ordinary, who would oversee the catechesis of the members of that community and arrange for the formal reception of its individual members into the Catholic Church. Once the stability of the community is assured, it could be recognized as a mission or parish of the ordinariate. The ecumenical implications of a congregation separating from a previous ecclesial relationship would be carefully observed.

---

All Anglican ordinations are declared invalid by the Roman Catholic Church. See Apostolicae Curae and Ad Tuendam Fidem. Even if the ordination of an Anglican clergy was done in the Old Catholic church was recognized as valid (which it isn’t, validity requires more than Apostolic succession), an Anglican clergy cannot exercise their office in the Roman Catholic church until they have been incardinated. Which doesn’t occur until they are ordained in the Roman Catholic church (explicitly or conditionally).

I would speak to a Roman Catholic priest and get direction from there.

 

[JonNC]

I am a former Lutheran, until recently in RCIA. I am Catholic in belief. While I was in RCIA, the RCIA director told me that I was able to go to Confession, and I have done so several times. I have also been attending Mass every Sunday.

olorin,
I have no information to share with you, but as a Lutheran, I want to welcome you to CAF, and wish you God’s grace and blessing in your journey.

Jon

 

[olorin12]

Thanks, everyone.

I’m going to talk to a priest about my situation.

According to this answer, you can go to confession before you are confirmed.

JonNC, I haven’t updated my profile in a while, but I haven’t considered myself to be Lutheran in at least a year. Thanks for the welcome, though. I’ve seen you on this board a lot, and I’ve got to say that you are more ecumenical than any other Lutheran I’ve seen online. I was a member of the Society of Saint Polycarp, which many more suspicious Lutherans suspected was a stepping stone to Rome. However, my going to Rome is in spite of, not because of, the SSP!

 

[FabiusMaximus]

Replying to the part of your post that is now in bold,

A) the priests and bishops of Orthodox Churches are ordained in Apostolic Succession, and their sacraments (mysteries) are perfectly vaid. The Catholic Church does not consider them illicit in any way.

B) what “recent massive divergences” with the Roman Rite of the Catholic Church?

If the Roman Catholic Church does not consider the Orthodox sacraments to be at least illicit, then why does it believe there to be a schism? Isn’t it illicit simply because the Orthodox are not in communion with the Pope? This is an honest question.

With regards to B):

• Hasn’t the Old Catholic Church come out in favor of gay marriage, women priests, and open communion? Doesn’t this invalidate their Eucharist?