How is that in any way freedom? That’s the same logic as Henry Ford saying that people could have their Model T in whatever colour they wanted…as long as it was black.
Actually, God made all people knowing that we will *all *choose to disobey him. All of us are sinners and that means, as hard as we may try, each and every one of us disobey him in some way every single day of our lives.
God holds creation together.
You forgot #70. God actively participates in all of our actions. Whatever we intend to do is carried out by God. I could wish to kill someone, but my wish would be in vain, if God did not maintain my muscles to pull that trigger, then maintain the bullet on its course, and maintain the kinetic energy of the bullet to enter the body. There is an interesting corollary to this process. We, the free agents, use the immutable God to carry out our wishes. God is just a “puppet of a string”. We make a decision, and God jumps, and maintains our muscles to carry it out.
You don’t escape responsibility though, as you must die and account for what you did, Spock. You cannot say He made you do it. You willed it freely and as God willed everything freely into being and maintains everything freely by His will God must pay the price for willing only good in His creation. God must die for creating things freely and God has died to save what He created. And you must pay the price also for willing to destroy what He created, you must die also as He did. Unfortunately you will not be able to live with the creator of what you destroyed when you die, you will run and hide in hell and be lost forever.You forgot #70. God actively participates in all of our actions. Whatever we intend to do is carried out by God. I could wish to kill someone, but my wish would be in vain, if God did not maintain my muscles to pull that trigger, then maintain the bullet on its course, and maintain the kinetic energy of the bullet to enter the body. There is an interesting corollary to this process. We, the free agents, use the immutable God to carry out our wishes. God is just a “puppet of a string”. We make a decision, and God jumps, and maintains our muscles to carry it out.
If all you did was want it pulled, it would not be pulled.
All you did was will to pull the trigger…
Or at least, if you are going to make more threads, please make them reasonable Spock. I always respect what you say, but this one is not reasonable.
Whaddaya mean? I thought they were always the same!
All I’ve got to say is, “Haven’t we seen this one before?”
SSDD.
Ah, close, but not quite. What I’m trying to say is that Henry Ford does indeed allow everyone to have their Model T in whatever color they want; it doesn’t have to be black. However, it just so happens that everyone wants a black Model T!
Yes, right, that is the accepted dogma. Eh, I think what I said in that post was misleading. I think what I wrote in this post explains it a little better. I’ll elaborate a bit more.
What you aren’t seeing is that what you suggest is not free will, no matter how you phrase it. Jesus was once asked what the greatest commandment is.
]Many errors in this reasoning.
This last point is most illogical in your rationale. It assumes that in order for a choice to be freely made one must like at least one of the choices offered. Thats nonsensical. We make choices sometimes the lesser of 2 evils thats just how it is. It doesnt mean we dont have a choice. Even doing nothing is a freely chosen act.
That’s not the command. God’s saying, “Love is the greatest good-and the only good that can make humans genuinely, eternally happy-and I happen to know this because, well, I’m God.” This is why St Basil could say,
The option or the choice is there, even if there is only one person. What is so hard about this?
Outcome has NOTHING whatsoever to do with whether or not you have the freedom to choose.