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BettyBoop416
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I’m not a good enough Catholic for you? Now THERE is something I don’t care about.
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davidv
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Actually, just like the individual masons do not, and cannot be proof of a Masonic teaching, the same came be said of individual Catholics. The same cannot be said of the Catholic Church. Its teachings stand on the teaching authority of the Magisterium, which is protected from teaching error by the Holy Spirit.
It would not matter if millions and millions of masons didn’t do. It has absoluting no bearing on the principles of the institution. It only speak of the hypocracy of aligning onself to a institution then ignoring what it stands for.
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thistle
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Yes she did. I quote ** “it is silly teachings like this”. ** The Church has no silly teachings, except to heretics.
Also did you read Leo XIII’s papal encyclical. It stands valid today.
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thistle
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That’s rich coming from a Catholic who calls teachings of the Church silly!!!
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InJesusItrust
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I think that freemasonry is part of the Satanic pillar–along with banking and the New Age movement. Of course they call him Lucifer and think that he is the good guy for tempting Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge…
“What we must say to the crowd is: -We worship a God, but it is the God that one worships without superstition. To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say, so that you can repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st and 30th degrees: -The Masonic religion must be, by all of us initiates of the high grades, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian doctrine. If Lucifer were not God, Adonai [the God of the Christians] whose deeds prove his cruelty, perfidy and hatred of man, his barbarism and repulsion of science -if Lucifer were not God, would Adonai and his priests slander him? Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately so is Adonai. For the eternal law is that there is no splendor without shadow, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black, because the absolute can only exist as two, because darkness is necessary to light to serve as its compliment, as the pedestal is necessary to the statue, as the brake to the locomotive … The true and pure philosophical religion is the belief in Lucifer, equal to Adonai, but Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good, is fighting for humanity against Adonai, God of Darkness and God of Evil.”
“What we must say to the crowd is: -We worship a God, but it is the God that one worships without superstition. To you, Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say, so that you can repeat it to the Brethren of the 32nd, 31st and 30th degrees: -The Masonic religion must be, by all of us initiates of the high grades, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian doctrine. If Lucifer were not God, Adonai [the God of the Christians] whose deeds prove his cruelty, perfidy and hatred of man, his barbarism and repulsion of science -if Lucifer were not God, would Adonai and his priests slander him? Yes, Lucifer is God, and unfortunately so is Adonai. For the eternal law is that there is no splendor without shadow, no beauty without ugliness, no white without black, because the absolute can only exist as two, because darkness is necessary to light to serve as its compliment, as the pedestal is necessary to the statue, as the brake to the locomotive … The true and pure philosophical religion is the belief in Lucifer, equal to Adonai, but Lucifer, God of Light and God of Good, is fighting for humanity against Adonai, God of Darkness and God of Evil.”
- Albert Pike, Confederate General, 33rd Degree Mason and Sovereign Pontiff of Universal Freemasonry, address to the 23 Confederated Supreme Councils of the World, 14 July 1889
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Boatswain2PA
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This is not true. Freemasonry does not deny any aspect of Catholicism, just as it does not deny any aspect of any other religion. However it does not actively SUPPORT Catholicism, just like it does not actively support any other religion. Why? Because it is not about religion, it is about good men helping each other turn into better men.
Think about it this way…at your work place you probably work with men/women of various faiths. While there is a time and a place for discussions of religion, you shouldn’t disrespect anyone’s religion at work. Same thing in a Freemason lodge.
Interesting article, but has some obvious biased errors. For example, it states that Freemasonry denies “the reality of miracles or divine revelation” which is not true as it would be disrespectful to Catholic’s (and several other Christian religions) to deny these.
You can stamp your feet, plug your fingers in your ear, and repeat yourself as much as you want…it will not make what you are saying true.
Yeah, just like there are a bunch of conspiracy theories about the Catholic Church. Did you know the Catholic Church was involved in Lincoln’s assassination? Did you know the Pope is the Anti-Christ?? Did you know that the Roman Catholic Church is trying to take over the American Political System? Did you know that Catholics worship idols? That they worship more than one God (ie: Saints!)?? This ALLL must be true…I read it on the internet!
(Before anybody attacks me for the stupidity of the above paragraph, please understand I was being sarcastic…I believe none of those ridiculous things).
Would you care to share any of this? What lodge were you involved in? Did you bring any of these issues to the Grand Lodge?
And we finally get to Albert Pike. This guy was a NUT-JOB! And unfortunately he was a NUT-JOB who wrote a LOT of inane things. Every single thing he ever wrote would have been thrown away by today if he had not been a Freemason and written such incredibly assinine things.
I have tried to read a little bit about Pike, and what he actually meant by all of his rantings. Some say he was using the correct interpretation of the name “Lucifer” (ie: bringer of light), and therefore was talking about (our one true God), but I’m not sure.
I just generally disregard anything he says. He was a horrible human being, and it is shameful that he was allowed to be a Freemason. However, the same could be said for many Catholics, including some Priests/Bishops. I wouldn’t judge Freemasonry by the actions of Albert Pike, just like I wouldn’t judge Catholicism by the actions of Bishop Lahey.
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BettyBoop416
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Apparently that’s the way it works in Thistleworld.
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englishredrose
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Okay,
So I am not Catholic before you all tell each other I am Anglican and don’t wish to get into Freemason and Catholic issue but I am deeply concerned about the passing judgement of what I have highlighted in blue.
Do you really believe in Hell to this extent that God punishes and sends people to hell? If so this saddens me because for me personally God does not work how we work and does not judge how we judge and only God himself says who goes to Heaven and Hell and we Cannot predetermin His Wishes and where He sends us when we die. To state that another Human will go to Hell because they do xyz is to me not what God is. And it saddens me beyond, when another passes this kind of judgement because it really isn’t our call. We can choose to play at being God by ending our lives when we choose but we really cannot judge that another goes to Hell. That and that alone is Gods’ Call and not ours.
Whilst I have a working believe of Hell and evil, my own personal stance on it that it is there in place to keep each other in our place more than actual being a Hell. And if there really is a Hell then I think no one is in there at all. Not even our worst enemies if we have anyone. That isn’t an Anglican teaching as far as I know so don’t wave the Anglican card at me. That is just my own stance on the whole of hell concept. It is a concept to keep people in order to some kind. It saddens me so much that one can pass judgement on another saying the formula for hell is and if they don’t do then they will go there. So sad:shrug:
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Boatswain2PA
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I do not have a clear understanding of why the Church forbids Freemasonry. Yes, I have read the Church teaching’s (ex: Pope Leo’s edict), but these do not strike me as “right”, or “just”. Instead they strike me as more political in nature than Godly. (And before anybody starts beating me up on that comment, please realize that the Church is, indeed, a political body. Always has been, and always will be…but that is a different discussion). As Timothy alluded to, the Church’s hard stance against Freemasonry can be easily associated to the fall of the French monarchy.
That being said, while I do not understand (or necessarily agree) with the Church’s teachings, I will follow to the best of my imperfect ability. That doesn’t mean I can’t disagree though, nor do I have to let the foolishness propagate. Freemason’s are not satanists, they are not out to get the Catholic Church, nor are they out to rule the world…that is just foolishness.
I try to liken my relationship to God as my children’s relationship to me. They can disagree with me, and they can occasionally argue with me, but they will do what I tell them to. In return, I will love them unconditionally, push them to do the right thing, let them make mistakes, and forgive them.
That being said, while I do not understand (or necessarily agree) with the Church’s teachings, I will follow to the best of my imperfect ability. That doesn’t mean I can’t disagree though, nor do I have to let the foolishness propagate. Freemason’s are not satanists, they are not out to get the Catholic Church, nor are they out to rule the world…that is just foolishness.
I try to liken my relationship to God as my children’s relationship to me. They can disagree with me, and they can occasionally argue with me, but they will do what I tell them to. In return, I will love them unconditionally, push them to do the right thing, let them make mistakes, and forgive them.
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The_Wanderer
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How about the Orthodox position on Freemasonry? It’s a bit long but the bulk of the article is worth looking at.
orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/masonry.aspx
"Freemasonry is not simply a philanthropic union or a philosophical school, but constitutes a mystagogical system which reminds us of the ancient heathen mystery-religions and cults—from which it descends and is their continuation and regeneration. This is not only admitted by prominent teachers in the lodges, but they declare it with pride, affirming literally: “Freemasonry is the only survival of the ancient mysteries and can be called the guardian of them;” Freemasonry is a direct offspring of the Egyptian mysteries; "the humble workshop of the Masonic Lodge is nothing else than the caves and the darkness of the cedars of India and the unknown depths of the Pyramids and the crypts of the magnificent temples of Isis; in the Greek mysteries of Freemasonry, having passed along the luminous roads of knowledge under the mysteriarchs Prometheus, Dionysus and Orpheus, formulated the eternal laws of the Universe!
"Such a link between Freemasonry and the ancient idolatrous mysteries is also manifested by all that is enacted and performed at the initiations. As in the rites of the ancient idolatrous mysteries the drama of the labors and death of the mystery god was repeated, and in the imitative repetition of this drama the initiate dies together with the patron of the mystery religion, who was always a mythical person symbolizing the Sun of nature which dies in winter and is regenerated in spring, so it is also, in the initiation of the third degree, of the patron of Freemasonry Hiram and a kind of repetition of his death, in which the initiate suffers with him, struck by the same instruments and on the same parts of the body as Hiram. According to the confession of a prominent teacher of Freemasonry Hiram is “as Osiris, as Mithra, and as Bacchus, one of the personifications of the Sun…”
orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/masonry.aspx
"Freemasonry is not simply a philanthropic union or a philosophical school, but constitutes a mystagogical system which reminds us of the ancient heathen mystery-religions and cults—from which it descends and is their continuation and regeneration. This is not only admitted by prominent teachers in the lodges, but they declare it with pride, affirming literally: “Freemasonry is the only survival of the ancient mysteries and can be called the guardian of them;” Freemasonry is a direct offspring of the Egyptian mysteries; "the humble workshop of the Masonic Lodge is nothing else than the caves and the darkness of the cedars of India and the unknown depths of the Pyramids and the crypts of the magnificent temples of Isis; in the Greek mysteries of Freemasonry, having passed along the luminous roads of knowledge under the mysteriarchs Prometheus, Dionysus and Orpheus, formulated the eternal laws of the Universe!
"Such a link between Freemasonry and the ancient idolatrous mysteries is also manifested by all that is enacted and performed at the initiations. As in the rites of the ancient idolatrous mysteries the drama of the labors and death of the mystery god was repeated, and in the imitative repetition of this drama the initiate dies together with the patron of the mystery religion, who was always a mythical person symbolizing the Sun of nature which dies in winter and is regenerated in spring, so it is also, in the initiation of the third degree, of the patron of Freemasonry Hiram and a kind of repetition of his death, in which the initiate suffers with him, struck by the same instruments and on the same parts of the body as Hiram. According to the confession of a prominent teacher of Freemasonry Hiram is “as Osiris, as Mithra, and as Bacchus, one of the personifications of the Sun…”
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The_Wanderer
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The statement of the Greek bishops indicates that they saw Freemasonry as the spiritual heir of the ancient pagan mystery tradition- but if the Adversary was the inspirational source of the mystery religions (or of Freemasonry) is anyone’s guess.
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Tantum_ergo
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Exactly. The whole problem is that people are using the ‘particular’ to argue against the ‘whole’, as it were.
“Because <> personally have met this particular person, or these particular people, and <> in my limited, fallible, personal judgment based ONLY on my PERCEPTION that these are ‘nice’ people, and therefore the organization they belong to must be JUST AS NICE, I will condemn the Catholic Church for judging ‘all these nice people’ and I will totally DISBELIEVE their teachings, even those these are backed by the Holy Spirit and reflect the understanding OF the Holy Spirit in regard to the WHOLE.”
Again, a lot of 'wanna-be Popes" out there. All very ready to insist on being able to be ‘the authority’ and to determine what they CHOOSE to accept, and very disclined to humbly accept–or even to THINK–that they might be WRONG!
“Because <> personally have met this particular person, or these particular people, and <> in my limited, fallible, personal judgment based ONLY on my PERCEPTION that these are ‘nice’ people, and therefore the organization they belong to must be JUST AS NICE, I will condemn the Catholic Church for judging ‘all these nice people’ and I will totally DISBELIEVE their teachings, even those these are backed by the Holy Spirit and reflect the understanding OF the Holy Spirit in regard to the WHOLE.”
Again, a lot of 'wanna-be Popes" out there. All very ready to insist on being able to be ‘the authority’ and to determine what they CHOOSE to accept, and very disclined to humbly accept–or even to THINK–that they might be WRONG!
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Tantum_ergo
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Oh, and before the jumping of “you could be wrong, too, Tantum” --I freely admit that I could be wrong. . .in ANY matter of belief where I might disagree with the Catholic Church and her teachings.
However, on any matter of belief in which I AGREE with the Church–well, I’m not going to be wrong, because SHE is not wrong on matters of faith and morals. That’s not what I say, it’s what GOD says.
However, on any matter of belief in which I AGREE with the Church–well, I’m not going to be wrong, because SHE is not wrong on matters of faith and morals. That’s not what I say, it’s what GOD says.
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Boatswain2PA
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First - I did not say the Church’s ban on Freemasonry was foolishness. I was referring to the foolishness here (Freemason’s are taking over the world! Freemason’s want to hang and eviscerate Catholics!! Freemason’s have a hidden satanic temple in the basement of each lodge where they sacrifice Catholic Virgin’s every Thursday evening after their spaghetti dinner!!!)
Second - Yes, if my children point out that I am being foolish, then I try to listen. I am a human, just like our Church leaders, so therefore I make mistakes.
Relativism or reality? Do you really think satan is behind the establishment of so many Children’s hospitals? Do you really think a “temple of satan” would have a Christian bible in it’s center?? Do you really think so many truly good men, many of them who have devoted their lives to God and family, would be involved in a satanic organization? Sorry Jharek, that isn’t relativism, that’s realism. These conspiracy theories are as crazy as the 9/11 Truthers.
Let me ask you a question…if you were forced to take 30 minutes to truly delve into the (admittedly crazy) conspiracy that the Catholic Church is the world’s center of child sex trafficking, would you give any credence to an internet site who puts a quote from Bishop Lahey on the top of the site? I would hope not.
There is true evil in the world. I have seen some of it. But it has no home in Freemasonry.
Second - Yes, if my children point out that I am being foolish, then I try to listen. I am a human, just like our Church leaders, so therefore I make mistakes.
Relativism or reality? Do you really think satan is behind the establishment of so many Children’s hospitals? Do you really think a “temple of satan” would have a Christian bible in it’s center?? Do you really think so many truly good men, many of them who have devoted their lives to God and family, would be involved in a satanic organization? Sorry Jharek, that isn’t relativism, that’s realism. These conspiracy theories are as crazy as the 9/11 Truthers.
More anti-Freemason internet stuff which, of course, leads off with a quote from the NUT-JOB Albert Pike.
Let me ask you a question…if you were forced to take 30 minutes to truly delve into the (admittedly crazy) conspiracy that the Catholic Church is the world’s center of child sex trafficking, would you give any credence to an internet site who puts a quote from Bishop Lahey on the top of the site? I would hope not.
There is true evil in the world. I have seen some of it. But it has no home in Freemasonry.
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The_Wanderer
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How about “internet stuff” from Plino de Oliverra? Not alot of his essays, books, and articles are available in English except as “internet stuff” on TFP-styled websites.
traditioninaction.org/History/G_001_Masonry_PCO.html
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InJesusItrust
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Many prophecies state that Freemasons want to create a new secular order.
Last week I learned banking for my economics course. Now I do not know whether it’s some Illuminati, Freemason or just Lucifereans–but there really is some group who is using central banking to conquer the world. They also spread Malthusian ideology in education and control the western media–even founded woman’s rights. Whenever you follow the money trail, it leads to the same names–too much so to be a wild coincidence. The only three countries in the world not dominated by private central banks are Iran, Cuba and North Korea. It is very strange that no one in the western media cares that some African nations have far more hospitals pushing population control rather than medicine.
As far as I am concerned, Satan is the prince of the world, and the only way to escape his control is to listen to God’s Church. Maybe these seperate groups are unwitting dupes of Satan.
Last week I learned banking for my economics course. Now I do not know whether it’s some Illuminati, Freemason or just Lucifereans–but there really is some group who is using central banking to conquer the world. They also spread Malthusian ideology in education and control the western media–even founded woman’s rights. Whenever you follow the money trail, it leads to the same names–too much so to be a wild coincidence. The only three countries in the world not dominated by private central banks are Iran, Cuba and North Korea. It is very strange that no one in the western media cares that some African nations have far more hospitals pushing population control rather than medicine.
As far as I am concerned, Satan is the prince of the world, and the only way to escape his control is to listen to God’s Church. Maybe these seperate groups are unwitting dupes of Satan.
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Boatswain2PA
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I am not disputing that there are a lot of writing from Catholics saying that Freemasonry is evil. It has been Catholic teaching for centuries and lots of folks have written about it. You will find anti-Freemason writing on every Catholic web-site, and in every language.How about “internet stuff” from Plino de Oliverra? Not alot of his essays, books, and articles are available in English except as “internet stuff” on TFP-styled websites.
traditioninaction.org/History/G_001_Masonry_PCO.html
But that doesn’t mean it’s correct, because it all has a bias.
Let’s try to look at it another way. Can you give me any examples of HOW Freemasonry has done anything, at all, evil? Please don’t tell me “They’re evil because they worship satan”, or “they worship false idols”, or things like that because it simply isn’t true. If the Freemason organization has had 250-300 years to execute their diabolical plan, then what was it? What in the world have they done??
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Boatswain2PA
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I think you should be looking at the Bilderberg group instead of the Illuminati or Freemasons as this is a much more likely scenario. Powerful men either come together in shared purpose (look at how historical Popes and the Kings of France came together to retain power), or they oppose each other in battle (again, historical Popes and the Kings of England). I can certainly see how the Bilderberg group comes together to make plans for how they can keep (or grow) their personal wealth/power…much to the detriment of the rest of us.
And perhaps Freemason’s are unwitting dupes of satan. But along the same lines, perhaps the Vatican has been controlled by satan for centuries. Perhaps my bride is really a succubus and is trying to somehow steal my soul.
All those things are, I guess, an esoteric possibility…but they all just sound down-right nuts to me.
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davidv
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Highly speculative positions are irrational and are not likely to lead to the truth. The Church position is clear and documented for all to see.
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BettyBoop416
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