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Shae
Guest
Amen to this
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ProVobis
Guest
That could be it, but then isn’t the marriage ratio about the same among their American counterparts? Seems like the American cohabitors/remarrieds either don’t go to church or don’t think the situation is wrong enough to abstain from taking communion.
Some comments on that webpage also alluded to the possibility that things like anger or missing Mass on Sundays and the like may not be considered in some cultures to be serious sins. Let’s face it, moral ignorance does have its advantages, while scrupulocity is a definite disadvantage, compounded by the fear that possible sacrilege itself can lead to Hell. IOW, to the latter types of people, not receiving avoids a lot of stress in their lives.
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ProVobis
Guest
If we pray there as a community, why should it be none of our business that some people choose not to share in the full graces, such as that offered by God’s blessing, which Mass provides? I don’t know, maybe it’s me, as it bothers me when people come in late for the Asperges Me when that is offered.
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BettyBoop416
Guest
I think you, unwittingly, hit the nail on the head. I suspect that very, very few people really believe that they have received the body and blood of Jesus himself. Yes, everyone gives the belief lip service, and most people would be offended and indignant if you suggested that they didn’t believe. But if you observe the way people behave - and leaving early is just one example - it’s obvious that they don’t.
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TK421
Guest
The six words that crucified Jesus Christ.
We are our brother’s keeper.
This subject matters just as much as though it were we ourselves walking out.
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maryjk
Guest
If we pray there as a community, why should it be none of our business that some people choose not to share in the full graces, such as that offered by God’s blessing, which Mass provides? I don’t know, maybe it’s me, as it bothers me when people come in late for the Asperges Me when that is offered.
And this is why it isn’t any of our business.
Yes, we pray and worship as a community.
But once we start speculating on what others are thinking, how they feel or what they believe, we are stepping into territory where we shouldn’t be.
Some one is late, ProVobis is bothered. But what he doesn’t know is that the person stopped to tend to someone that had been in a car accident.
BettyBoop416 sees someone leave early. She concludes that it is obvious that they don’t believe in the Real Presence. What she doesn’t know, is that the person is leaving to take care of their sick parent/spouse/child. And that the person only had an hour to be away.
It isn’t any of our business because it seems to be once we make it our business, we start making judgements about people.
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Cat
Guest
Here’s one possibility as to why people leave Mass early.
There are a lot of Catholics who seem to think that they don’t have to sing or even read the words to hymns that they feel are “banal” or “not really Catholic.”
We see this attitude all the time here on CAF–the attitude that “I don’t have to submit to the priest if he does something or allows something in the Mass that I think is not according to the rubrics or not in keeping with the dignity of the Holy Mass.”
So it’s no wonder Catholics leave–they just don’t want to sing “City of God”, and they think they have a right to walk out and not put up with the “banality” of modern music.
I’m sure that the opposite also happens, and Catholics also leave early when a hymn is “too traditional” for them, since Vatican II eliminated all those old hymns!
After all, we have a “right” to a “correct” Mass, don’t we? Correct according to my personal understanding of the documents, that is.
So we have reaped what we have sowed–an unwillingness to submit leads to outright rebellion.
We need to rid ourselves of this attitude, and cheerfully submit to singing whatever the closing hymn is in an OF Mass, and trusting that our priest, our “daddy,” would not force us to do something harmful to our faith.
I agree with all those who say that we shouldn’t judge or attempt to analyze the motives of others. What will happen is that someday, we will be in a position to have a legitimate reason to leave Mass early, even if we totally believe that Jesus is Truly Present, Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity," and then we will remember all the times we judged others and ascribed bad motives to them, and we will be ashamed of ourselves and recognize that of all the people in the Mass, we were the ones who had no right to receive Jesus in Holy Communion with such judgmental attitudes in ourselves.
There are a lot of Catholics who seem to think that they don’t have to sing or even read the words to hymns that they feel are “banal” or “not really Catholic.”
We see this attitude all the time here on CAF–the attitude that “I don’t have to submit to the priest if he does something or allows something in the Mass that I think is not according to the rubrics or not in keeping with the dignity of the Holy Mass.”
So it’s no wonder Catholics leave–they just don’t want to sing “City of God”, and they think they have a right to walk out and not put up with the “banality” of modern music.
I’m sure that the opposite also happens, and Catholics also leave early when a hymn is “too traditional” for them, since Vatican II eliminated all those old hymns!
After all, we have a “right” to a “correct” Mass, don’t we? Correct according to my personal understanding of the documents, that is.
So we have reaped what we have sowed–an unwillingness to submit leads to outright rebellion.
We need to rid ourselves of this attitude, and cheerfully submit to singing whatever the closing hymn is in an OF Mass, and trusting that our priest, our “daddy,” would not force us to do something harmful to our faith.
I agree with all those who say that we shouldn’t judge or attempt to analyze the motives of others. What will happen is that someday, we will be in a position to have a legitimate reason to leave Mass early, even if we totally believe that Jesus is Truly Present, Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity," and then we will remember all the times we judged others and ascribed bad motives to them, and we will be ashamed of ourselves and recognize that of all the people in the Mass, we were the ones who had no right to receive Jesus in Holy Communion with such judgmental attitudes in ourselves.
What about when you are going up for Communion and they are smashing into you like a bowling ball?
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ProVobis
Guest
Car accidents bother me too.Some one is late, ProVobis is bothered. But what he doesn’t know is that the person stopped to tend to someone that had been in a car accident.
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pnewton
Guest
It is also a judgment that everyone has a good reason for being late or leaving early. I do not think anyone would think twice except when the numbers of people bailing early are large. Then, it becomes obvious that some still have a ways to go in understanding the significance of the Mass, not that we should never assume any individual is in this category or that any is not.Some one is late, ProVobis is bothered. But what he doesn’t know is that the person stopped to tend to someone that had been in a car accident.
BettyBoop416 sees someone leave early. She concludes that it is obvious that they don’t believe in the Real Presence. What she doesn’t know, is that the person is leaving to take care of their sick parent/spouse/child. And that the person only had an hour to be away.
It isn’t any of our business because it seems to be once we make it our business, we start making judgements about people.
We can always pray for those who come in late or leave early. It would help both us and them.
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BettyBoop416
Guest
And this is why it isn’t any of our business.
Yes, we pray and worship as a community.
But once we start speculating on what others are thinking, how they feel or what they believe, we are stepping into territory where we shouldn’t be.
Some one is late, ProVobis is bothered. But what he doesn’t know is that the person stopped to tend to someone that had been in a car accident.
BettyBoop416 sees someone leave early. She concludes that it is obvious that they don’t believe in the Real Presence. What she doesn’t know, is that the person is leaving to take care of their sick parent/spouse/child. And that the person only had an hour to be away.
It isn’t any of our business because it seems to be once we make it our business, we start making judgements about people.
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BettyBoop416
Guest
Actually, when BettyBoop416 sees someone leave early, she rarely gives it a thought. In fact, BettyBoop416 has been known to duck out a few moments early herself on the rare occasion. It’s only this thread that has prompted me to speculate on why people leave early.BettyBoop416 sees someone leave early. She concludes that it is obvious that they don’t believe in the Real Presence. What she doesn’t know, is that the person is leaving to take care of their sick parent/spouse/child. And that the person only had an hour to be away.
That said, I stand by my assertion that most folks don’t believe that it’s Jesus up there. If we REALLY believed that it was Jesus up there, we’d be face down on the floor begging for his mercy. There wouldn’t be a good enough reason in a million years to leave early.
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TK421
Guest
Does this mean you don’t really believe that Jesus is up there, since you just admitted in the same post that you have left early on rare occasions?
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Cat
Guest
I don’t agree with this.
I think people who believe in the True Presence of Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament will have different reactions depending on their personality.
Yes, some people would be face down on the floor begging for mercy, although in the United States, this position isn’t generally adopted, and it would be strange to see anyone, especially a woman, on the floor. But yes, I think that there are people who would spend time before Jesus praying for mercy.
But there are many Christians who believe His promises and accept the mercy that He promised to those who believe in Him and seek to follow Him. I’m one of those people. If Jesus said it, I believe it, and that settles it. I don’t spend a lot of time debating over whether Jesus really meant it or whether I even deserve it, or whether I’ve committed some mortal sin without knowing it. I just accept Jesus’ mercy with humility and gratefulness.
And for me, accepting Christ’s mercy means getting up and getting going in doing His work in this world. Yes, that means I’m a Martha, not a Mary, but someone has to do the work!
Think of St. Paul–he was confronted on the Damascus road by the Lord Jesus Himself, and fell to the ground. But when Jesus told him that he was chosen for a special task, St. Paul didn’t remain on the ground begging Jesus for mercy. Instead, he got up and got going and started working on the task that Jesus had given him.
I think a lot of Christians are like that. They come to Mass totally believing in Jesus Truly Present in the Blessed Sacrament, and they are totally aware that they are receiving Him in Holy Communion. And then when Mass is over, they leave to do the tasks that Jesus has given them–raising a family, working in a secular job, volunteering for a community or church project, bearing a cross of illness, etc.
There’s nothing wrong or disrespectful about that reaction to the True Presence of Jesus. Frankly, I would feel guilty hanging around begging for mercy that He has already given me!! I think it’s more important to get to work and do what He wants me to do.
I hope all this makes sense. I am a convert to Catholicism from evangelical Protestantism, and I have noticed over the last ten years that many Catholics harbor a spirit of guilt over the slightest things. I personally think that this false guilt is probably one reason why so many Catholics leave the Catholic Church–they just can’t bear it any more, and they look for a church (or no church) where they can live in peace and love, not constant fear. Jesus shouldn’t frighten us. We should be joyful to see Him in the Blessed Sacrament.
Now as for leaving early, I still maintain that we have no right to judge anyone, but we should assume the best of everyone. I also think that when 40% of the people leave, there is probably a reason, and it may not be a “good” reason (e.g., getting to the Golden Corral before the Baptist congregation gets there!). But we still should not judge the motives and actions of others.
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7armyrugrats
Guest
Cat, this is so true!
***I hope all this makes sense. I am a convert to Catholicism from evangelical Protestantism, and I have noticed over the last ten years that many Catholics harbor a spirit of guilt over the slightest things. I personally think that this false guilt is probably one reason why so many Catholics leave the Catholic Church–they just can’t bear it any more, and they look for a church (or no church) where they can live in peace and love, not constant fear. Jesus shouldn’t frighten us. We should be joyful to see Him in the Blessed Sacrament. ***
Not only do so many leave over a false sense of guilt, but many more project that guilt onto others through their judgement.
***I hope all this makes sense. I am a convert to Catholicism from evangelical Protestantism, and I have noticed over the last ten years that many Catholics harbor a spirit of guilt over the slightest things. I personally think that this false guilt is probably one reason why so many Catholics leave the Catholic Church–they just can’t bear it any more, and they look for a church (or no church) where they can live in peace and love, not constant fear. Jesus shouldn’t frighten us. We should be joyful to see Him in the Blessed Sacrament. ***
Not only do so many leave over a false sense of guilt, but many more project that guilt onto others through their judgement.
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raspberrybear
Guest
My Church’s car park is so small that many people end up parking in front of others and boxing them in. Thus, when Mass is ending, it’s often those people who dash out lest they end up stopping people who might need to get off elsewhere from leaving! 
That said, this is only a few minutes earlier than the rest of the Church. Most of us stay until the priest has left!
That said, this is only a few minutes earlier than the rest of the Church. Most of us stay until the priest has left!
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TK421
Guest
This hasn’t been what I’ve seen (though I haven’t seen much), but why do you think this is?
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7armyrugrats
Guest
There are many reasons, but mainly it is growing up Catholic, seeing my brothers and all but one sister leave the Church, and the reasons behind them leaving. Same with the reasons my friends left. And the fact that those that remained quite often try to prove how good of a Catholic they are by noticing all the “sins” of other people. Probably because I have noticed how closed many Catholic church congregations are–meaning you need to be in the right clique to be included in any activity or make friends. Sometimes the ones who leave go to more welcoming church communities that make them part of their church family instead of remaining in the Catholic church, even if they believe that we Catholics have the fullness of Truth.
We have a huge evangelization problem in our faith. Too many people leave because they feel unwelcomed and unloved. Too many people don’t join the Church for the same reasons. I love my faith, but struggle with the community 99% of the time. At our last parish I felt welcomed for the first time in 38 years of being Catholic. Now at this new one, it’s harder on me because I saw how wonderful community can be so I miss the feeling even more now. If I could change one thing about the Catholic church, it would definitely be the way we interact with others. I believe that it all comes from the way we view ourselves.
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