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PJM
Guest
By popular request [because inquiring MINDS REALLY DO WANT TO KNOW] 
WHY donât you beleive in the REAL Presence?
God Bless you,
Pat
WHY donât you beleive in the REAL Presence?
God Bless you,
Pat
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Defender1
Guest
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valentino
Guest
Well why donât you think that people donât believe in the real prescence?Have you got a better answer?
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CountrySteve
Guest
i wonder why
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CatholicZ09
Guest
This verse always comes to mind when I think of this issue:
Jesus wants to be with us in a very tangible form. How great is God?!?
turns into zealous Catholic now
Edit: Many of the Early Church Fathers wrote about it; Martin Luther believed in it; Jesus never said, âThis is a SYMBOL of my body.â You get the point that Iâm trying to make.
St. John Vianney once said that if there was anything greater than the Eucharist, God would have given it to us.
Jesus wants to be with us in a very tangible form. How great is God?!?
turns into zealous Catholic now
Edit: Many of the Early Church Fathers wrote about it; Martin Luther believed in it; Jesus never said, âThis is a SYMBOL of my body.â You get the point that Iâm trying to make.
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PJM
Guest
YEA BUT:shrug:
Why donât you believe in the REAl Presence?
God Bless,
Pat
Why donât you believe in the REAl Presence?
God Bless,
Pat
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babylonsfalling
Guest
There is enough Scripture out there to support a sensible objective belief in Real Presence. Whatâs odd here is that a lot of those who deny Real Presence would also call them themselves Bible Only Christians, ignoring the fact that they ignore the Bible when it comes to Real Presence.By popular request [because inquiring MINDS REALLY DO WANT TO KNOW]
WHY donât you beleive in the REAL Presence?
God Bless you,
Pat
As to whyâŚsince symbolic presence is obviously not in the Bible and Real Presence isâŚthese people obviously value the teachings of men more than the teachings of the Bible. Theyâre bound by their religion to the false doctrines of men.
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Izdaari
Guest
Why would you assume I donât believe in it? Just because Iâm not Catholic or Orthodox, i.e. Protestant? Insufficient; many Protestants do believe in it. But I donât know of any who believe only Catholics have it; if they believed that, I guess theyâd be Catholic.
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PJM
Guest
YEP that does make your question seemingly the correct one.
That is the reason for this string to find out IF they have reasons?THANKS so much, I donât wish to cut short the responces.
God Bless, Pat
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PJM
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FRIEND, I make no such assumption. âYouâ means youâall
And on what basis would churches other than We Catholic âhave the Real Presence?â
That is a very interestering point
God Bless,
Pat
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ConsciousCoward
Guest
I was taught Real Presence in confirmation class (Iâm a United Methodist).
Iâve heard from a friend that his disbelief in the physical real presence (transubstantiation) is because of what was happening when the supporting verse happened. The Last Supper was a Passover feast, a Sader. When Jesus told the people that the wine was his blood, he was holding the third cup, the cup of Redemption. To say that his blood was what the cup symbolized, redemption before God, would be considered blasphemous at the time. The matzo, bread, was symbolic of what kept the Israelites from starving during their Exodus, so saying it was his body would be saying that he was fulfilling the symbolism by being broken. This would also be considered blasphemy, and as Passover is a very important celebration in Jewish culture, it would explain why they left. The fourth cup, which Jesus said he would not drink until he was in the Kingdom, was the cup symbolizing Godâs promise to give His people a land of their own, so Jesus would be saying Heaven was the promised land, not Israel.
Thatâs what my friend told me, anyway.
Iâve heard from a friend that his disbelief in the physical real presence (transubstantiation) is because of what was happening when the supporting verse happened. The Last Supper was a Passover feast, a Sader. When Jesus told the people that the wine was his blood, he was holding the third cup, the cup of Redemption. To say that his blood was what the cup symbolized, redemption before God, would be considered blasphemous at the time. The matzo, bread, was symbolic of what kept the Israelites from starving during their Exodus, so saying it was his body would be saying that he was fulfilling the symbolism by being broken. This would also be considered blasphemy, and as Passover is a very important celebration in Jewish culture, it would explain why they left. The fourth cup, which Jesus said he would not drink until he was in the Kingdom, was the cup symbolizing Godâs promise to give His people a land of their own, so Jesus would be saying Heaven was the promised land, not Israel.
Thatâs what my friend told me, anyway.
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PJM
Guest
EXCELLENT replyâŚTHANKS!
What your friend is misssing is that TIME does not exist for God. Everything is 'Present-time".
The second point missing is that the NT acts fulfill and PERFECT the Olc Testament acts.
Did Jesus not say: 'This is the NEW Covenant in My Blood?"
1 Cor. 11: 23 âFor I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, âThis is my body which is for * you. Do this in remembrance of me.â In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, âThis cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.â For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lordâs death until he comes.â
**Heb. 8: 6 **âBut as it is, Christ * has obtained a ministry which is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion for a second.
Rom. 7: 6 âBut now we are discharged from the law, dead to that which held us captive, so that we serve not under the old written code but in the new life of the Spirit.â
**Heb. 8: 13 **â In speaking of a new covenant he treats the first as obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.â
God Bless you, well done:thumbsup:
Pat
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hn160
Guest
If your Doctrine on the Person of Christ is messed up, then you will not believe in the Real Presence. If you believe that Christ was not fully human and fully God and that he didnât have the communication of the attributes between his Divine Attributes and His human attributes. If you donât believe in this Personal Union, then you believe that Christâs human body is confined to Heaven and only His Spiritual Presence is hear on earth. Christ was fully God and fully man and as God in the flesh, His Physical Body can be on earth everywhere and on all alters at the same time.
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CatholicZ09
Guest
I read a similar thread earlier on this, and someone made a good point.
What did the Israelites use for their Passover meal? A real lamb. So, since Jesus Christ is the new and complete sacrifice, then why would His meal be considered âsymbolicâ since they used an ACTUAL lamb in the Passover?
What did the Israelites use for their Passover meal? A real lamb. So, since Jesus Christ is the new and complete sacrifice, then why would His meal be considered âsymbolicâ since they used an ACTUAL lamb in the Passover?
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Twilight_Crow
Guest
As a former Protestant, I can say with some certainty: it really isnât a common topic. Wish I had a better answer, but honestly, when I was growing up, it just never was something we discussed.
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ConsciousCoward
Guest
I can see a potential response. Sacrificing an animal was common practice for seeking forgiveness in Jewish tradition. The lamb was sacrificed, yes, but it wasnât supposed to be one of the same lambs that was sacrificed to save the firstborns, it was just supposed to represent them, to make the participant in the Seder remember. The point being, the physical lamb eaten wasnât supposed to turn into a sacrificed lamb fron Passover. It was just another sacrificed lamb.
Iâm playing devilâs advocate here, mostly because Iâve been reading a lot about traditions and history and the such. Itâs very interesting, and useful for edifying my faith.
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Izdaari
Guest
Good. No offense taken or intended, but I had to ask. :flowers:FRIEND, I make no such assumption. âYouâ means youâall
And on what basis would churches other than We Catholic âhave the Real Presence?â
That is a very interestering point
God Bless,
Pat
So you are aware that some Protestants do believe in the Real Presence. Most notably Lutherans and Anglicans, though they donât talk about âtransubstantiationâ, preferring to leave exactly how it works a mystery. I am neither Lutheran or Anglican by church membership, but I agree with them on a lot of doctrines, including that one.
How could other churches than Catholic have the Real Presence?
How could they not, if itâs real? It isnât the priest transforming it by a magic ritual, but the power of the living Christ manifesting when and where He chooses, and He said wherever two or three are gathered in His name, He is there.
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Izdaari
Guest
Ok, good. No offense taken or meant. :flowers:FRIEND, I make no such assumption. âYouâ means youâall
And on what basis would churches other than We Catholic âhave the Real Presence?â
That is a very interestering point
God Bless,
Pat
Then you are aware that some Protestants do believe in it. Probably more Anglicans and Lutherans than any others, and while Iâm not formally a member of either, I agree with them on that, as on many other things.
As to why other churches would have it⌠uh, why wouldnât they? Protestants donât believe a priest is required to officiate, but that the priesthood of all believers suffices. Jesus said wherever two or three gather in His name, He will be there.
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babylonsfalling
Guest
Who said ANYONE assumed anything about you?
Why would YOU assume someone was talking about you?
YOUâRE the one personalizing non belief onto yourself, not me.
The OP was about those who donât believe in Real Presence, it didnât talk about YOU or any other specific person.
Nobody was trying to make it all about you except you.
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