Social decorum at Mass

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henrikhank

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Pax!
So I’ve got this problem: I sometimes attend Missa cantata and Missa privata/lecta. (Correct me if I’m using the wrong names!)
I’ve been told that at a Missa privata you’re supposed to kneel nearly all the time, i.e. standing for the Gospel and so on, as you know. Is this right? Where does this tradition come from?
But at a Missa cantata you’re supposed to stand/sit a lot more. Now comes the problem.
Let’s take two great examples here: At the Offertorium I see people sitting and some people kneeling. What is the right thing to do? I sometimes see people sitting at a Missa privata as well. Then come another big problem, the Sanctus. When exactly am I supposed to kneel? I can’t just follow the other people because they kneel at different times. Should I kneel at the Sanctus or when the choir has finnished?
How do I know what to do at a Mass?
This is confusing for me…I even got a psychiatric diagnosis.
 
You would be even more confused if I were there as I can rarely kneel and if I do tend to stay kneeling as getting up is very hard at my age… and it would distract kind folk who would try to help… I tend to sit also when others are standing for the same reason. Balance is not all that good either

Dies it really matter? ) Please don’t all shout at me at once,:blush:I am very old and not all that well…🙂
 
henrikhank said:
Pax!
So I’ve got this problem: I sometimes attend Missa cantata and Missa privata/lecta. (Correct me if I’m using the wrong names!)
I’ve been told that at a Missa privata you’re supposed to kneel nearly all the time, i.e. standing for the Gospel and so on, as you know. Is this right? Where does this tradition come from?
But at a Missa cantata you’re supposed to stand/sit a lot more. Now comes the problem.
Let’s take two great examples here: At the Offertorium I see people sitting and some people kneeling. What is the right thing to do? I sometimes see people sitting at a Missa privata as well. Then come another big problem, the Sanctus. When exactly am I supposed to kneel? I can’t just follow the other people because they kneel at different times. Should I kneel at the Sanctus or when the choir has finnished?
How do I know what to do at a Mass?
This is confusing for me…I even got a psychiatric diagnosis.
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While there are scant few rubrics/instructions for the congregation, most hand missals that I’ve seen have instructions for congregational posture, usually in the left or right hand margins, often with a sketching of a person kneeling or standing.

Anyway, the standard custom at Missa Lecta is as you say, to kneel most of the time. Beyond standing for the Gospel, the main exception is to sit during the Offertory. Personally I find it a bit odd to kneel during the Lord’s Prayer, but that’s the way it’s done.

It’s also very true that, in both a Missa Cantata & the more elusive Missa Solemnis, there is more physical activity. For example, it is normal to sit during the Epistle. The standard posture during the Offertory is again to sit. If incense is used, however, one stands when the congregation is censed. That normally happens around the Orate Fratres, and often it just makes more sense to an “up-and-down” to simply remain standing for the Preface. At the Sanctus, however, the standard posture is to kneel at the beginning. It’s also normal to stand during the Lord’s Prayer.

I’m sure others here will give a more detailed response.
 
Is it really that important that everyone be so uniform in their posture at mass?
 
MonkMoses said:
Is it really that important that everyone be so uniform in their posture at mass?
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In absolute terms, no, but even then there are some standards. For example, do not Byzantines generally stand for DL? How would it be viewed if someone decided to sit (even on the floor if there are no pews) during the Gospel? Wouldn’t a few eyebrows be raised? Or how about kneeling? You see what I mean.

My philosophy on posture is generally to follow the local custom. (The one exception I make is when I know that the current local custom is wrong, in which case I will assume the correct posture (regardless of anyone giving me the “fish eye”). Of course, in such circumstances, I normally keep to the back of the church so as not to draw attention to myself.) But this thread is in terns of the Latin Usus Antiquior, and despite the dearth of “official” instructions on posture, there are general norms to be observed.
 
Rosebud77 said:
You would be even more confused if I were there as I can rarely kneel and if I do tend to stay kneeling as getting up is very hard at my age… and it would distract kind folk who would try to help… I tend to sit also when others are standing for the same reason. Balance is not all that good either

Dies it really matter? ) Please don’t all shout at me at once,:blush:I am very old and not all that well…🙂
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Don’t worry Rosebud. I am not all that old, but have severe knee joint problems and cannot kneel at all. I sit and stand, and when others kneel I assume a posture of reverence with my head bowed and hands folded in prayer.

My priest knows my situation and that I am not being disrespectful or lazy, I just cannot kneel. The regulars who sit around me know it too, as I guess the regulars where you are know about your problems too. :hug3:
 
henrikhank said:
Pax!
So I’ve got this problem: I sometimes attend Missa cantata and Missa privata/lecta. (Correct me if I’m using the wrong names!)
I’ve been told that at a Missa privata you’re supposed to kneel nearly all the time, i.e. standing for the Gospel and so on, as you know. Is this right? Where does this tradition come from?
But at a Missa cantata you’re supposed to stand/sit a lot more. Now comes the problem.
Let’s take two great examples here: At the Offertorium I see people sitting and some people kneeling. What is the right thing to do? I sometimes see people sitting at a Missa privata as well. Then come another big problem, the Sanctus. When exactly am I supposed to kneel? I can’t just follow the other people because they kneel at different times. Should I kneel at the Sanctus or when the choir has finnished?
How do I know what to do at a Mass?
This is confusing for me…I even got a psychiatric diagnosis.
Click to expand...
At the Offerotorium, it is usual to sit. At the Sanctus, one kneels upon hearing the words “Sanctus, Sanctus, Sanctus.” Remain kneeling until the Pater Noster.

This will help you. 🙂
 
Rosebud77 said:
You would be even more confused if I were there as I can rarely kneel and if I do tend to stay kneeling as getting up is very hard at my age… and it would distract kind folk who would try to help… I tend to sit also when others are standing for the same reason. Balance is not all that good either

Dies it really matter? ) Please don’t all shout at me at once,:blush:I am very old and not all that well…🙂
Click to expand...
I hit my left knee on something really hard a couple of years ago, and I haven’t been able to genuflect properly, or kneel on the floor, since then. (I can kneel on a kneeling bench, but if I have to put my feet flat behind me, I can’t get up again, for some reason.)
 
OP; does it matter… seems such a distraction at mass for you, leading you away from the truth and reality of Mass

I honestly never notice these things.

Thanks to others! I have other problems as I cannot go to Sunday Mass as I am very allergic to perfumes and cleaning fluids

So now I pray the mass online or radio and catch a quiet mid week mass wherever I happen to be. This helps focus me hugely.
 
Rosebud77 said:
OP; does it matter… seems such a distraction at mass for you, leading you away from the truth and reality of Mass

I honestly never notice these things.

Thanks to others! I have other problems as I cannot go to Sunday Mass as I am very allergic to perfumes and cleaning fluids

So now I pray the mass online or radio and catch a quiet mid week mass wherever I happen to be. This helps focus me hugely.
Click to expand...
It’s that Sunday Mass is difficult for yoy.

Why does it matter? How to behave at q Mass seem important due to the fact that the Mass, according to Catholicism, is very important. Then I’ve got my ASC/ASD so social situations can be very difficult for me. When much is happening exteriorly or interiorly it is sometimes just too much. At Mass you have to meet a lot of people sometimes stand/sit too close to them!
 
henrikhank said:
It’s that Sunday Mass is difficult for yoy.

Why does it matter? How to behave at q Mass seem important due to the fact that the Mass, according to Catholicism, is very important. Then I’ve got my ASC/ASD so social situations can be very difficult for me. When much is happening exteriorly or interiorly it is sometimes just too much. At Mass you have to meet a lot of people sometimes stand/sit too close to them!
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I used to be like that too then I started slipping in quietly at the very back or even standing just outside and just going in for communion.
That helps and may help you too.

rather than allow the problems to come between you and mass. Which is what is happening now it seems
 
One thing I don’t like is how we have all the rules for the people at the altar, what they should do and so on but not too many rules for the congregation. If Mass is so importantant why not care more about how the people in the pews behave? It’s just so confusing!
 
I sit in the middle not the front at EF Masses, and follow the custom of others for the sitting, standing and kneeling parts. Some places sit in certain segments, not all do. It seems to be pretty universal to stand for the Gospel, genuflect for the Incarnation mentions in the Credo and Last Gospel and when the priest enters then leaves the sanctuary.
 
henrikhank said:
One thing I don’t like is how we have all the rules for the people at the altar, what they should do and so on but not too many rules for the congregation. If Mass is so importantant why not care more about how the people in the pews behave? It’s just so confusing!
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Because this is not a great huge issue - period. and because there are so many and varied folk with eg difficulties and if there are young children there…

Please, lighten your heart and focus on Jesus; HJ is the mass
 
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