Social "equality" for gays

  • Thread starter Thread starter Newbie2
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Fitswimmer said:
You do not have to embrace anything that violates your moral code. You don’t have to marry a gay person, you don’t have to attend a wedding between two gay people, you can even stand out on the sidewalk with a sign about how they’re all going to Hell if that’s what you want to do. You are free to choose all those things.

Equal treatment does not mean that everyone has to stand up and say how wonderful it is. Equal treatment means only that-that everyone in civil society is treated in the same way. As long as there is even one hurdle that one section of society must jump that doesn’t exist for all others, then equal treatment does not exist.
Click to expand...
First of all, gays have always been allowed to marry under the same rules and regulations as everyone else.

And what about this problem? I happen to live in California. If it were my job to issue marriage licenses, I would now have two options:
  1. sin every time I issued a license to a gay couple, or
  2. quit my job, thereby losing my source of income (but what if I have kids to feed?)
If I were a wedding photographer in California, I would have two choices about photographing weddings:
  1. sanction gay marriages by photographing them, or
  2. refuse to photograph gay marriages and get sued (again, what if I have kids to feed?)
People may very well be forced to embrace things that violate their moral code. Already in California, Catholic Charities was told it had to offer insurance plans that included contraceptions.

Our freedom of religion is being trampled upon. I predict it won’t be too long before the Church is sued for refusing to perform a gay wedding.
 
ComputerGeek25 said:
Pathia, first off, hope you are feeling better?

Ok - but what’s to stop me from signing a will to say all my property will go to person X (not related or civilly married to) upon my death. Or that person X will have power of attorney in case of accident?
Click to expand...
I am in the hospital now, they have wireless. If you want the gory details, feel free to PM me.

There are over 1000benefits that go with Marriage. You’d have to write up ALOT of paperwork to cover them all.
 
Kay_Cee said:
First of all, gays have always been allowed to marry under the same rules and regulations as everyone else.

And what about this problem? I happen to live in California. If it were my job to issue marriage licenses, I would now have two options:
  1. sin every time I issued a license to a gay couple, or
  2. quit my job, thereby losing my source of income (but what if I have kids to feed?)
If I were a wedding photographer in California, I would have two choices about photographing weddings:
  1. sanction gay marriages by photographing them, or
  2. refuse to photograph gay marriages and get sued (again, what if I have kids to feed?)
People may very well be forced to embrace things that violate their moral code. Already in California, Catholic Charities was told it had to offer insurance plans that included contraceptions.

Our freedom of religion is being trampled upon. I predict it won’t be too long before the Church is sued for refusing to perform a gay wedding.
Click to expand...
People are often mistaken that “Freedom of religion” means “Freedom from religion.”

Whatever happend to vote with your feet and your dollar?
 
GratefulDad said:
If that is the case why not go to the gay and lesbian forums and spend your time evangelizing them? As a true and fully believing Catholic you would not want to spend your time trolling here would you?:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
What do you mean by trolling?
 
ComputerGeek25 said:
People are often mistaken that “Freedom of religion” means “Freedom from religion.”

Whatever happend to vote with your feet and your dollar?
Click to expand...
I did vote!!! The people of California voted to reject gay marriage.

But of course our votes meant nothing to those few judges who took it upon themselves to usurp the will of the people.
 
pathia said:
I am in the hospital now, they have wireless. If you want the gory details, feel free to PM me.

There are over 1000benefits that go with Marriage. You’d have to write up ALOT of paperwork to cover them all.
Click to expand...
However, most of the current laws have to do with divorce, and how property is broken up upon divorce, death, etc.

Also, many of the benefits and laws are enacted to benefit children, and most children (in this country anyways) are concieved the “normal” way.

Even though there are laws that have “benefits” for heterosexual couples, it can be argued that they still may not be enough in all cases for heterosexual couples. This is why any lawyer will tell you to draw up a set of legal documents anyways.
 
Kay_Cee said:
First of all, gays have always been allowed to marry under the same rules and regulations as everyone else.

And what about this problem? I happen to live in California. If it were my job to issue marriage licenses, I would now have two options:
  1. sin every time I issued a license to a gay couple, or
  2. quit my job, thereby losing my source of income (but what if I have kids to feed?)
If I were a wedding photographer in California, I would have two choices about photographing weddings:
  1. sanction gay marriages by photographing them, or
  2. refuse to photograph gay marriages and get sued (again, what if I have kids to feed?)
People may very well be forced to embrace things that violate their moral code. Already in California, Catholic Charities was told it had to offer insurance plans that included contraceptions.

Our freedom of religion is being trampled upon. I predict it won’t be too long before the Church is sued for refusing to perform a gay wedding.
Click to expand...
I used to think that too, but the sheer lack of lawsuits against Churches in places where gay marriage has existed cured me of that belief.

I left a job with the Dept of Defense because I felt that it was morally wrong of me to earn money helping people design better ways to kill people-so the “they have to get new jobs” argument doesn’t do much for me. I did it, others can to if it means enough to them.
 
ComputerGeek25 said:
However, most of the current laws have to do with divorce, and how property is broken up upon divorce, death, etc.

Also, many of the benefits and laws are enacted to benefit children, and most children (in this country anyways) are concieved the “normal” way.

Even though there are laws that have “benefits” for heterosexual couples, it can be argued that they still may not be enough in all cases for heterosexual couples. This is why any lawyer will tell you to draw up a set of legal documents anyways.
Click to expand...
When Virginia passed its law, almost all of the paperwork my partner and I had written up was invalidated. We had to form a limited liability corporation to make our reltionship valid again. It is stil challenged at every turn. I had to get faxed copies to even let him visit me here in the hospital right now, they refused the cards we had made up with our lawyer’s information.

My benefits from my partner’s workplace for me were terminated due to fear of violating the law, which means I’m in for another healthy avalanche of debt when I am released from here.

It’s not a false concern, it HAPPENED.
 
pathia said:
There are over 1000benefits that go with Marriage. You’d have to write up ALOT of paperwork to cover them all.
Click to expand...
This is a red herring. The bottom line is simply they want the definition of marriage to be changed. Ask yourself why.
 
buffalo said:
This is a red herring. The bottom line is simply they want the definition of marriage to be changed. Ask yourself why.
Click to expand...
Why keep saying ‘they’? I’m right here, call me a gay activist if you want. I just want to be able to have my partner visit me when I can’t give the doctors the thumbs up. I couldn’t this time either, I was out and delirious for a fever. Even though he brought me in, they wouldn’t let him in with me until the lawyer got involved. Waking up and seeing that he was with me was heartening, but then I heard the trouble he had doing something as simple as that, thankfully it only took a few hours since it wasn’t 3am like last time.
 
pathia said:
I am in the hospital now, they have wireless. If you want the gory details, feel free to PM me.

There are over 1000benefits that go with Marriage. You’d have to write up ALOT of paperwork to cover them all.
Click to expand...
Not really-in fact I cant think of anything that can not be covered by three or 4 basic legal agreements.
 
Fitswimmer said:
I used to think that too, but the sheer lack of lawsuits against Churches in places where gay marriage has existed cured me of that belief.
Click to expand...
It will happen. It’s only a matter of time. It won’t necessarily be from a couple that actually hopes to get married in a Catholic Church but one that wants to punish the Church for its stance on gay marriage and sees a lawsuit as a way to do that. They’ll want to make it look like the big bad nasty Catholic Church won’t let these two loving people in a committed relationship get married. The couple will get lots of publicity, shining in the spotlight, while the Church will once again be villified.

However, I hope you’re right and I’m wrong.
I left a job with the Dept of Defense because I felt that it was morally wrong of me to earn money helping people design better ways to kill people-so the “they have to get new jobs” argument doesn’t do much for me. I did it, others can to if it means enough to them.
Click to expand...
I’m sure that took a lot of courage. Kudos to you!

But some folks aren’t in a position to just up and get a new job. Besides, why should they have to? Why should they be the ones who have to leave? What if they’re just short of retirement? What if nothing else is available in their small town except something that pays a lower salary?

My point is that people who have depended upon certain jobs and incomes have now had the rug pulled out from under them.
 
estesbob said:
Not really-in fact I cant think of anything that can not be covered by three or 4 basic legal agreements.
Click to expand...
I don’t mean to come across as rude or crass, but are you reading any of my other posts?

I have those ‘basic legal agreements’ with my partner, and we still run into endless trouble, even this hospital visit has been a trial (outside of the obvious part of getting better!)
 
pathia said:
I don’t mean to come across as rude or crass, but are you reading any of my other posts?

I have those ‘basic legal agreements’ with my partner, and we still run into endless trouble, even this hospital visit has been a trial (outside of the obvious part of getting better!)
Click to expand...
Then you need to ge a better lawyer.
 
Kay_Cee said:
It will happen. It’s only a matter of time. It won’t necessarily be from a couple that actually hopes to get married in a Catholic Church but one that wants to punish the Church for its stance on gay marriage and sees a lawsuit as a way to do that. They’ll want to make it look like the big bad nasty Catholic Church won’t let these two loving people in a committed relationship get married. The couple will get lots of publicity, shining in the spotlight, while the Church will once again be villified.

However, I hope you’re right and I’m wrong.

I’m sure that took a lot of courage. Kudos to you!

But some folks aren’t in a position to just up and get a new job. Besides, why should they have to? Why should they be the ones who have to leave? What if they’re just short of retirement? What if nothing else is available in their small town except something that pays a lower salary?

My point is that people who have depended upon certain jobs and incomes have now had the rug pulled out from under them.
Click to expand...
No, they haven’t. Just as in the case of pharmacies, as long as said gay couple can receive equal services, nobody has to quit. As long as there are other clerks and other photographers nobody has to quit. We’ve had civil unions in NJ for quite a while now, and nobody has had to quit anything because it violates their moral code. If they have, that’s their choice, not because anyone forced them.

I had the same fears about churches and ministers getting sued, but since they are practicing their constitutional right to freedom of religion it will be very hard for a gay couple to win such a suit. Sure there would be ugly press coverage when the suit was announced, but ultimately they’d lose. Oddly enough, it would be people like the ACLU that would defend them, which would drive a lot of folks here crazy.
 
Fitswimmer said:
No, they haven’t. Just as in the case of pharmacies, as long as said gay couple can receive equal services, nobody has to quit. As long as there are other clerks and other photographers nobody has to quit. We’ve had civil unions in NJ for quite a while now, and nobody has had to quit anything because it violates their moral code. If they have, that’s their choice, not because anyone forced them.

I had the same fears about churches and ministers getting sued, but since they are practicing their constitutional right to freedom of religion it will be very hard for a gay couple to win such a suit. Sure there would be ugly press coverage when the suit was announced, but ultimately they’d lose. Oddly enough, it would be people like the ACLU that would defend them, which would drive a lot of folks here crazy.
Click to expand...
What Troll Fodder.:rolleyes:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top