Social Issues Within The Church

[EasterJoy]

God be with you as well

My sponsor said that the Church accepts me as I am, though with time and prayer I may be able to change. I asked my mom, (Unfortunately she is a fundamentalist, but oh well) how she felt about cases of abortion from rape. Having some experience in the field, she told me no and gave her answer. She as it may have been, it was effective at reaching me. I still stand on not forcing others to believe the same way that I do. It’s by example that we should reach the world, not by force.

I think this will be an ongoing conversation you have with fellow Catholics as you go through life. There is a way to speak the truth fearlessly, yes, and a way not to do it. The Church is adamant that the faithful may not directly cooperate in abortion (which would include not writing laws that encourage it), but there is a great deal of debate even among those who would like to stop every abortion for all time about the best way to prevent abortions while also supporting women who are in such difficult circumstances, yes. (Certainly changing laws that allow the perpetrator of a rape to have visitation rights with his victim’s child is one of them!)

 

[Starrsmother]

I’m extremely pro choice and I find this view horrifying and misogynistic. If a woman dares to have sex she should suffer the consequences, but if it was rape she’s off the hook? How disgusting! And where is the man in all of this while the woman is being punished for “sleeping around”?

And a sizable portion of women who get abortions are married. They weren’t raped, but they didn’t sleep around either. What would you allow them for their level of virtue?

You hit the nail on the head:
Abortion is not about protecting the woman’s rights and freedom. and
Pro-life is not about being uncaring about a woman’s rights and freedom.

Both sides of this issue must deal with the lives of 2 separate human beings, each created and given life by GOD, not man. How a life begins is a moot point. Once it begins it’s a life, put in place by God.

Should rapists get off easy. Of course not! If it were me, I’d give them a minimum of 21 years on a chain gang working to support a child they might or might not have conceived by their crime–with the female victim getting every cent of what he made. An incestuous relative should get that and more! No woman should be raped or abused or mistreated–but that includes the completely innocent baby girl in her mother’s uterus. For reasons known only to God, He made creatures male and female and decided that women are the ones to carry a child in their body. Frankly, most women think we got a pretty good deal–I wouldn’t trade the experience of carrying a baby inside me with anyone–including my husband–it’s pretty cool! If a woman gets pregnant by rape–which again is a situation haled by the abortion crowd but in real life is such a small minority of women that it probably isn’t even statistically relevant, she should still carry the pregnancy. There are plenty of safety nets in our society to cover all her medical costs, food, housing–you name it. Try offering it up to God–and no, I’m not kidding. Few of us couldn’t use the experience of sacrificing something up for the many sins we have committed in our lives. Few of us are that holy and perfect that a sacrifice or two might not just be exactly in order. When she goes into labor, let her get her epidural–hell, she doesn’t even have to really even experience labor anymore! And THEN–if she doesn’t feel like raising that child–which will always carry half her DNA, I might add–it isn’t just the rapist’s baby–put it up for adoption. Let it live! The baby is the only truly innocent party–so why kill the baby? People have NO idea just how hard it really is for a couple to adopt a baby these days and what a truly self-less gift of love it really can be!

 

[EasterJoy]

You hit the nail on the head:
Abortion is not about protecting the woman’s rights and freedom. and
Pro-life is not about being uncaring about a woman’s rights and freedom.

Both sides of this issue must deal with the lives of 2 separate human beings, each created and given life by GOD, not man. How a life begins is a moot point. Once it begins it’s a life, put in place by God.

Should rapists get off easy. Of course not! If it were me, I’d give them a minimum of 21 years on a chain gang working to support a child they might or might not have conceived by their crime–with the female victim getting every cent of what he made. An incestuous relative should get that and more! No woman should be raped or abused or mistreated–but that includes the completely innocent baby girl in her mother’s uterus. For reasons known only to God, He made creatures male and female and decided that women are the ones to carry a child in their body. Frankly, most women think we got a pretty good deal–I wouldn’t trade the experience of carrying a baby inside me with anyone–including my husband–it’s pretty cool! If a woman gets pregnant by rape–which again is a situation haled by the abortion crowd but in real life is such a small minority of women that it probably isn’t even statistically relevant, she should still carry the pregnancy. There are plenty of safety nets in our society to cover all her medical costs, food, housing–you name it. Try offering it up to God–and no, I’m not kidding. Few of us couldn’t use the experience of sacrificing something up for the many sins we have committed in our lives. Few of us are that holy and perfect that a sacrifice or two might not just be exactly in order. When she goes into labor, let her get her epidural–hell, she doesn’t even have to really even experience labor anymore! And THEN–if she doesn’t feel like raising that child–which will always carry half her DNA, I might add–it isn’t just the rapist’s baby–put it up for adoption. Let it live! The baby is the only truly innocent party–so why kill the baby? People have NO idea just how hard it really is for a couple to adopt a baby these days and what a truly self-less gift of love it really can be!

The OP has said that disputes about what the Church teaches about abortion are entirely off the topic he intended to raise, which was whether or not someone who does not currently accept every teaching of the Church, including a teaching concerning a grave matter, could ever be accepted. He’s had his question answered in person by his parish RCIA sponsor.

He said he’d like the thread deleted if possible.

 

[Cider]

So when the Church decided to execute gay couple after Rome’s state religion had switched, were they within their rights? When should we start implementing this procedure again?

What are you talking about? Rome had no concept of homosexuality as we know it today. People were expected to marry and have children. Some people did engage in what we would call homosexual behavior, but it was generally an older man and younger one with the older one taking a patronage type role that included receiving sexual favors while he assisted the younger one in furthering his education or career. It was immoral then and it’s immoral now. What we call homosexual acts was not considered to be an orientation. These men married women and fathered children.

I think you would be well served in learning about Theology of the Body. There is a podcast by Father Thomas Loya called A Body of Truth, you can find it on iTunes or here They are best understood by listening from the oldest podcast forward since he lays the foundation and builds on it over time.

 

[EasterJoy]

What are you talking about? Rome had no concept of homosexuality as we know it today. People were expected to marry and have children. Some people did engage in what we would call homosexual behavior, but it was generally an older man and younger one with the older one taking a patronage type role that included receiving sexual favors while he assisted the younger one in furthering his education or career. It was immoral then and it’s immoral now. What we call homosexual acts was not considered to be an orientation. These men married women and fathered children.

I think you would be well served in learning about Theology of the Body. There is a podcast by Father Thomas Loya called A Body of Truth, you can find it on iTunes or here They are best understood by listening from the oldest podcast forward since he lays the foundation and builds on it over time.

Again, if you read down past the post you’re responding to, the OP has decided that the conversation a) was off-topic and b) has been taking on a tone that was not profitable to anyone.

 

[Em_in_FL]

It’s called history. It has nothing to do with faith.

At this point, it’s not even about gay marriage. it’s a point to say the Church does and has changed its view of things. I’m not saying the Church is going to accept it. I’m not ‘bending’ logic, I’m using it. It’s kind of sad to see someone in denial of what actually happened. If you actually read anything I posted, I never once said I support it, nor do I not support it. In your silly mind that equates to me being an enemy.

I encourage you to research and study more on the differences between church doctrine and teaching (get a copy of the Catechism) VS certain practical historic implementations and practices that may or may not be truly inspired by God.
Sure, the church has some sordid history on how the human view of church teaching should be implemented in society… things like that may or may not change throughout history…
However, true church doctrine doesn’t really change - and that’s where the basic theology on abortion and marriage fits in.
Sure, the implementation of those teachings in society (rules, punishments, etc) may change, but fundamentally the theology doesn’t. Does that make sense?

We’re all sinners… by our human nature. Every single one of us sins. We have to BEG God for forgiveness, and in His infinite mercy and through His amazing love, we can all grow closer to Him in how we live our lives… day by day.

I hope that helps clear up any of the confusion you may have had on those subjects.

 

[NSFrame]

How can the Churches teachings on life be a small part of living a Catholic life? We make life decisions every day.

Contraception, perhaps that is a daily decision. The others come up a few times in one’s lifetime, at most. Prayer, charity, Mass attendance, evangelization - these should be constantly practiced.

 

[tstrong728]

So when the Church decided to execute gay couple after Rome’s state religion had switched, were they within their rights? When should we start implementing this procedure again?

When missionaries were sent to Asia, they destroyed much of the culture, and provoked wars. I know in Japan missionaries sold weapons to local governments in an attempt to weaken them so that it could become another colony. Is that right?

Should we start up the Inquisition again?

What about Galileo? On this historic timeline of things, he was just recently given an apology for his prosecution. Should we start persecuting those that discover new ideas?

What about the witch hunts and the treatment of Jews? Shouldn’t we still carry those out today?

Truth is truth, what applies then, applies now. Morality isn’t negotiable.

I can say with certainty that the Catholic Church will not be killing anyone or running an Inquisition or disrespecting other cultures or witch-hunting or mistreating Jews.

We love, fear, and respect God so we won’t do those things. Whenever any immoral things are done by Catholics, even in the name of the Church, we apologize for them and ask God for forgiveness for our sins in the same way that all non-Catholics do.

 

[tstrong728]

Again, if you read down past the post you’re responding to, the OP has decided that the conversation a) was off-topic and b) has been taking on a tone that was not profitable to anyone.

This sentiment reminds me of the story about the penance that St Philip Neri gave the gossiping woman. To make a long story short, it’s pretty hard to find all those feathers.

I found this thread profitable, I learned much from all the posters especially that I’m personally still struggling with how to amend my ways so that I might conform more closely to the ideals which Pope Francis has been speaking about recently.

 

[bsroufek]

Jesus said, “If you love me, keep my commandments.” Commandments? Those ARE laws.

He also told someone, who asked him what he had to do to be saved, to follow the [Ten] Commandments, then [for him] to sell his goods and give to the poor.

Also, He said to the Apostles, “Whoever hears you, hears me. Whoever rejects you, reject me…” Why do I quote this? Because we must also believe and adhere to the Apostles’ writings in the NT, including St. Paul who tells us that homosexuals (practicing, not SSA) do not go to Heaven.

There are a number of things the Apostles and their successors teach and command us that we must do. Jesus isn’t a “Love (alone) gets you to Heaven” type of Savior, but He said, “Be perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect.”

You seem to indicate that you support some of Society’s teachings which the Church condemns. That’s a problem. I don’t know why you mentioned that you were a Buddhist before attending the Catholic Church, except that you say you are supportive of gay marriage and (I think) Buddhists are accepting of homosexuality. It may be hard to rid yourself of those objectionable things in Buddhism you used to believe, but pray and do your best to do just this.

I pray you don’t reject the Truth as preached by the Church, as you suggested you might do by leaving Her. It’s about Eternal Life, my friend, so stay the course and carry the Cross in obedience.