Social justice, "Government giving", Advocacy

[Edward_H]

I’d like to better understand the “advocacy” approach that Catholic social justice seems to have adopted.

To me “advocacy” most often translates into arm wrestling legislators, policy wonks, congressional staff into steering money into “programs”.

This is not charity. No free exchange. Forced taxes, policy driven distribution, not free gift.

No real free decision to give (ergo, no real charity), no generosity, no gratitude, no mercy.

Instead - without free choice and love - you end up with what we have which is resentment and entitlement.

The Holy Spirit is absent from such tax supported “giving”.

What am I missing;

 

[ANNE_2]

Interestingly LA Archbishop Gomez has written that Faithful Catholics can disagree on role of government, in an article called: “LEGITIMATE DIFFERENCES of OPINION”.
calcatholic.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?id=c38c691e-300e-4ff7-a1d0-d53a1fad2a18

This plus some of the paragraphs in the CCC, lead me to ask the question - - - - why is the USCCB involved (based upon their public statements and web site) in any statements to Politicians on behalf of the Catholic Church where there can be “LEGITIMATE DIFFERENCES of OPINION” ?

CCC - " 1894 In accordance with the principle of subsidiarity, neither the state nor any larger society should substitute itself for the initiative and responsibility of individuals and intermediary bodies."

CCC - " 1883 Socialization also presents dangers. Excessive intervention by the state can threaten personal freedom and initiative.
The teaching of the Church has elaborated the principle of subsidiarity, according to which “a community of a higher order should not interfere in the internal life of a community of a lower order, depriving the latter of its functions, but rather should support it in case of need and help to co- ordinate its activity with the activities of the rest of society, always with a view to the common good.”

CCC - " 2209 The family must be helped and defended by appropriate social measures.
Where families cannot fulfill their responsibilities, other social bodies have the duty of helping them and of supporting the institution of the family.
Following the principle of subsidiarity, larger communities should take care not to usurp the family’s prerogatives or interfere in its life. "

 

[GratefulFred]

Archbishop Gomez is spot on with his article published earlier this week. See above.

After LIFE, health, and family, FREEDOM is my most cherished gift. With Freedom comes responsibility to use it wisely. We are the result of the wise or unwise use of Freedom by our families and our society. We have a Moral Obligation to God Himself to do our part to use Freedom wisely, not only for our personal benefit, but also to the benefit of our family and society and especially for those, who will be the result of how we use Freedom.

LOVE is the next gift. I am free to love or not, but I am called by God to love Him and to love others for the love of God. God loves us first. What return shall I give God for the LOVE, LIFE, and FREEDOM He has given me?

I can do the best I can to not be a burden on others. I can get an education as best I can. I can avoid potentially destructive behavior as best I can. I was taught, try to live by, and teach the 4 cardinal virtues: PRUDENCE, TEMPERANCE, FORTITUDE, and JUSTICE. Are we teaching this to our families and society?

Skipping ahead: Economics is the often defined as the “allocation of scarce resources.” It is presumed that there is never enough for everybody. Some will have more and some will have less. But who? And how much?

If you and I compete for a job promotion and you win fairly, are you not worthy of the extra pay and what it provides? Do I have any right to say, “You must give me half your extra pay?” Especially if I have not used my Freedom wisely?

I think many are ignoring the most basic premise of our PERSONAL OBLIGATION TO ACT WISELY. Many are too quick to quick to say Government must spend more on a whole host of social programs. We fail to have a common sense of priorities and a realistic sense of there is only so much we can do with the money we have.

The Federal Government and a number of States are so deep in debt that we are in real danger of going bankrupt SOON. Too many are ignoring this to the peril of us all.

 

[valentino]

You aren’t missing anything.These legistlatures are not aware of the consequences of these free programs and this growing government.I truelly believe that many are ignorant of what they are doing.Afterall they are looking out for their jobs and their futures.They don’t see the affect it will have on them in the future or their children and grandchildren.They are living in the moment.They can’t see the big picture.Obama is a very good politician and that’s all that he is.He can be bent in any direction if he sees he can get re-elected.That doesnt automatically make him a bad man.I truelly believe he’s naive.I feel that most people today have this mentality that you look out for yourself first above all things.Our society lives this but they all preach self sacrifice.Our society hates self sacrifice.We want the American Dream.

 

[Edward_H]

All of you, great points and references. This is very helpful.

And Valentino, “…society hates self-sacrifice”. Very good point, very true.

We’re still oddly attracted to it when we it is brought before our eyes (heroic fireman, etc.), but somehow we don’t want to spend the energy to have that event - that act of life - transform our life and the world around us.

Thanks all, very helpful to my thinking on this topic.

 

[music2]

I’d like to better understand the “advocacy” approach that Catholic social justice seems to have adopted.

To me “advocacy” most often translates into arm wrestling legislators, policy wonks, congressional staff into steering money into “programs”.

This is not charity. No free exchange. Forced taxes, policy driven distribution, not free gift.

No real free decision to give (ergo, no real charity), no generosity, no gratitude, no mercy.

Instead - without free choice and love - you end up with what we have which is resentment and entitlement.

The Holy Spirit is absent from such tax supported “giving”.

What am I missing;

Hi.
Can you explain what advocacy means please or is there some example in particular that you are referring to?
I’m not from USA so i’m unaware of what advocacy refers to/what goverment issues are there.

As a side note,What do you think of charities like Kiva that do Microfinancing loans?

 

[Edward_H]

Hi.
Can you explain what advocacy means please or is there some example in particular that you are referring to?
I’m not from USA so i’m unaware of what advocacy refers to/what goverment issues are there.

As a side note,What do you think of charities like Kiva that do Microfinancing loans?

Ok, sure…sorry. Advocacy in this country means you spend most of your time trying to lobby our legislators, governors, presidents, influential orgs…to vote for a bill, to craft legislation in favor or something…most of the time this means moving money from one pocket to another.

You go to meetings, you become primarily a political operative, etc. No finger nails getting dirty. You go to meetings, parties, and events with your head held high as if you were doing charity.

Very distant and indirect work…no need to worry about the results when they don’t materialize as you predicated and claimed…you can fall back on the excuse “wasn’t properly implemented”, “wasn’t executed in the right spirit”…“was undermined by personal agenda”.

Etc.

 

[music2]

Ok, sure…sorry. Advocacy in this country means you spend most of your time trying to lobby our legislators, governors, presidents, influential orgs…to vote for a bill, to craft legislation in favor or something…most of the time this means moving money from one pocket to another.

You go to meetings, you become primarily a political operative, etc. No finger nails getting dirty. You go to meetings, parties, and events with your head held high as if you were doing charity.

Very distant and indirect work…no need to worry about the results when they don’t materialize as you predicated and claimed…you can fall back on the excuse “wasn’t properly implemented”, “wasn’t executed in the right spirit”…“was undermined by personal agenda”.

Etc.

That sounds all very political.
Down here charities mean things like Caritas,St Vinnies etc

 

[Edward_H]

That sounds all very political.
Down here charities mean things like Caritas,St Vinnies etc

Good stuff. Up here…some of these sort of Catholic orgs line up at the government trough for their handouts…and over time the government trains them in other ways with the implied threat that if they don’t toe the line, they’ll lose funding.

So the “advocates” toe the line losing sight of what real charity is…confusing charity (and the active participation of the Holy Spirit) with government funding.