Social Justice groups such as JustFaith, CCHD, IAF

[yayi238]

**NOTE from Moderaor: This thread is an off-shoot of one from Evangelization raised about the Just Faith Program. **

Now to Jack Jezreel, its founder.
Why was he associated with Call to Action during the same time that the Bishop of Lincoln Nebraska excommunicated that group with all of its members and/orsupporters? I read that in a Catholic News Service 2006 article. The Bishop’s happened in 1996 and Jezreel spoke at Call to Action in -as he admits-the mid 1990’s. He agreed to speak there, he says, because the invite came from the Archdiocese of Chicago and he didn’t know that Call to Action was, in his words, “a rogue organization”.

So it seems that even though an Archdiocese promotes a program. said program is not necessarily “Catholic”. That is why I question our New Orleans Archdiocese for promoting JustFaith.
The IAF’s “Catholicness” has been questioned and found wanting by Fr. Mitch Pacwa.

All of these “social justice” groups smack of community organizers who, like Saul Alinsky, believe that the end justifies the means and in my reading I find that is not at all consistent with Catholic belief.
I ask you to recall Jesus’ answer to Judas when Judas preferred to sell the oil and give the money to the poor.
I wonder about motives. And it seems many social justice groups have more of a political agenda than a faith-building agenda.
I have found the JustFaith program listed as a “progressive anti-Catholic group”.
It builds a certain passion to act and then it supplies the outlets for that passion–namely the groups that it supports.
I have written to Jezreel to ask if he was excommunicated. My Archdiocese gave me his e-mail. Jezreel has not responded.

 

[yayi238]

ljpgoodwin,

Not only was ACORN “cooking the books”, as you say, but also fraudulently registering voters–sometimes 70 times the same name. Even Bishop Morin questioned the activities–but he still allowed the 2nd collections to be held for CCHD!

ACORN is now a highly partisan group. The Catholic church with its non-profit status should not be involved with them.
Why does the Catholic Campaign for Human Development with the US Conference of Catholic Bishops need any secular organization to dispense funds collected from Catholics who with great trust donate to what they are led to believe will be Catholic organizations? We all need to be informed and not just assume anything.

We are preached to to be “good stewards”. Why did it take until after Nov. 2008 for CCHD to end funds to ACORN? Perhaps even abortions were being paid for with Catholic funds. Were the actions of the Catholic Conference of Bishops those of “good stewards”?
I am a cradle Catholic but many things now happening within the Catholic church are troubling to me.

 

[ljpgoodwin]

Hi yayi238

Yes, it seems that Mr. Jezreel spoke to people from “A Call to Action”. Going to a group of people as a keynote speaker is not in itself a bad thing. If a pro-abortion or a pro-death penalty group asked me to speak to them…you can bet that I would be there with the hope of helping them see how wrong abortion and the death penalty are.

Your bishop is in the company of Bishop Olmstead of Phoenix, Archbishop Dolan of New York, Edward Cardinal Egan ex Archbishop of New York and Bishop Finn of Kansas City, just to name a few who all support JustFaith. I chose these bishops because they are some of the most deeply conservative bishops in the country; especially Bishop Olmstead of Phoenix.

Fr. Mitch Pacwa, although a fine human being and priest is hardly the arbiter of what is Catholic and what is not. Fr. Mitch has a particular political leaning that has nothing to do with his ability to say who is “really” Catholic or not.

It is true that Saul Alinsky was a social activist, which in itself can be a good thing. But saying that he would stop at nothing to get what he wanted to do, done is a bit of an overstatement, don’t you think? I don’t think that Alinsky was willing to kill. All Mr. Alinsky wanted to do was help people organize themselves in order to be able to make a better living for their families. The Catholic Church has strongly and consistently supported organized labour since Pope Leo XIII in 1893 in Rerum Novarum until today with Pope Benedict XVI in Deus Caritas Est and now Caritas in veritate.

Yayi238, you have some great Catholic schools in New Orleans. You might find it helpful to go and take some classes on Catholic Doctrine. Or maybe Notre Dame, your Catholic seminary there might let you take some classes.

Thank you for responding to why JustFaith seems named after a heresy.

Now to Jack Jezreel, its founder.
Why was he associated with Call to Action during the same time that the Bishop of Lincoln Nebraska excommunicated that group with all of its members and/orsupporters? I read that in a Catholic News Service 2006 article. The Bishop’s happened in 1996 and Jezreel spoke at Call to Action in -as he admits-the mid 1990’s. He agreed to speak there, he says, because the invite came from the Archdiocese of Chicago and he didn’t know that Call to Action was, in his words, “a rogue organization”.

So it seems that even though an Archdiocese promotes a program. said program is not necessarily “Catholic”. That is why I question our New Orleans Archdiocese for promoting JustFaith.
The IAF’s “Catholicness” has been questioned and found wanting by Fr. Mitch Pacwa.

All of these “social justice” groups smack of community organizers who, like Saul Alinsky, believe that the end justifies the means and in my reading I find that is not at all consistent with Catholic belief.
I ask you to recall Jesus’ answer to Judas when Judas preferred to sell the oil and give the money to the poor.
I wonder about motives. And it seems many social justice groups have more of a political agenda than a faith-building agenda.
I have found the JustFaith program listed as a “progressive anti-Catholic group”.
It builds a certain passion to act and then it supplies the outlets for that passion–namely the groups that it supports.
I have written to Jezreel to ask if he was excommunicated. My Archdiocese gave me his e-mail. Jezreel has not responded.

 

[yayi238]

Whoa!

I never said anything about killing–where did THAT come from??
I never said Alinsky would stop at nothing.

I did say Alinskian methods believe that the end justifies the means.That does not square with Catholic belief.

You say Fr. Pacwa has a particular political leaning.
I believe–through past observances-that the promoter of JustFaith, namely Catholic Campaign for Human Development, definitely has a “particular political leaning”.
CCHD , with the blessings of the USCCB , is the same group through which major funds and grants were given to ACORN as late as Nov. 2008. How many fraudulent voters were registered through ACORN with the help of funds given by trusting Catholics who used their CCHD envelopes for a second collection?
Why should CCHD be trusted now?

Judas wanted to give to the poor too.
BTW-I had 13 years of Catholic training.
Always heard that the Seminary was the devil’s playground so be careful there. You are only hearing one side of things.

 

[ljpgoodwin]

The logical conclusion of “the means justifies the end” is killing to get what you want. When you suggest that Alinski was lead by “the means justifies the end” you are in fact saying that he would stop at nothing. That is what “the means justifies the end” means.
Yes I did take it too far. I took it too far to make the point I am about to make. You took it too far when you suggested that Saul Alinski is unable to judge what appropriate actions are.

Can you give me an example of what Alinski did that was inappropriate? Give me a story to back up your claim that Alinski used unjust means to get to his desired end…which was organizing meat packers in Chicago’s “Back of the Yards” so that they could make a good wage, work in a safe and clean environment and raise their families well. Is that so bad? What is it about the work of IAF you don’t like? Tell me why you don’t like it from the perspective of being a Catholic and an American citizen.

Can you point to a document that would suggest that organizing labor is against Catholic teaching? So show me the results of this blessed 13 years of Catholic education. Give me a good, well founded and well sited argument to back up your claims that CCHD and Industrial Areas Foundation are anti-Catholic. Back up your statements with real, objective, verifiable facts.
As for seminary life… So you have heard that seminaries are the devil’s playground. I think you are right. But I think it’s more up to the individual seminarian to fall into the devils hands than it is the institution itself corrupting seminarians. For sure all seminaries have a particular character. But just because a seminary is not to my liking, does not mean that there is something evil about it. Can you give me an example of an American Catholic institution that you think is “really Catholic”?
You are right, ACORN was dropped by CCHD because of its unethical practices. I’m glad that CCHD took action against ACORN. This is an indication that CCHD is doing its job in maintaining its ethical integrity in its dealings with funded groups. The problem would have been if CCHD continued to fund ACORN after knowing that ACORN was acting poorly.
The sad part is that ACORN has done a lot of good over the years. Now because of some unethical practices of some of its members, they lost a lot of credibility. Hopefully they will be able to get their act together again and return to the good work they were founded to do.
Every institution can fall because of the actions of some of its members. We don’t have to look to far back in our own Catholic history to find some very powerful leaders doing some very bad things. The same can be said for our country.

Whoa!

I never said anything about killing–where did THAT come from??
I never said Alinsky would stop at nothing.

I did say Alinskian methods believe that the end justifies the means.That does not square with Catholic belief.

You say Fr. Pacwa has a particular political leaning.
I believe–through past observances-that the promoter of JustFaith, namely Catholic Campaign for Human Development, definitely has a “particular political leaning”.
CCHD , with the blessings of the USCCB , is the same group through which major funds and grants were given to ACORN as late as Nov. 2008. How many fraudulent voters were registered through ACORN with the help of funds given by trusting Catholics who used their CCHD envelopes for a second collection?
Why should CCHD be trusted now?

Judas wanted to give to the poor too.
BTW-I had 13 years of Catholic training.
Always heard that the Seminary was the devil’s playground so be careful there. You are only hearing one side of things.

 

[yayi238]

My concern is that JustFaith’s founder, Jack Jezreel, was a speaker at the excommunicated group named Call to Action. Call to Action had begun as a Catholic group. What happened there?
Joyce Cottage of JustFaith ministries will not answer my question about that via my e-mail request–she will only answer if I give her my phone number.
What are the motives of JustFaith?
They seem to create a passion for “social justice” and then direct you to where you can help–their selected causes.
They come with the promotion of Archdiocesan areas which have been less than “good stewards” of Catholic funds in the past.
I am advocating that Catholics do their own checking of all groups to which they belong. Unfortunately,
Sometimes having the “blessing” of the Archdiocese doesn’t assure of the continued Catholicness of a group.

 

[yayi238]

The logical conclusion of “the means justifies the end” is killing to get what you want. When you suggest that Alinski was lead by “the means justifies the end” you are in fact saying that he would stop at nothing. That is what “the means justifies the end” means.
Yes I did take it too far. I took it too far to make the point I am about to make. You took it too far when you suggested that Saul Alinski is unable to judge what appropriate actions are.

Can you give me an example of what Alinski did that was inappropriate? Give me a story to back up your claim that Alinski used unjust means to get to his desired end…which was organizing meat packers in Chicago’s “Back of the Yards” so that they could make a good wage, work in a safe and clean environment and raise their families well. Is that so bad? What is it about the work of IAF you don’t like? Tell me why you don’t like it from the perspective of being a Catholic and an American citizen.

Can you point to a document that would suggest that organizing labor is against Catholic teaching? So show me the results of this blessed 13 years of Catholic education. Give me a good, well founded and well sited argument to back up your claims that CCHD and Industrial Areas Foundation are anti-Catholic. Back up your statements with real, objective, verifiable facts.
As for seminary life… So you have heard that seminaries are the devil’s playground. I think you are right. But I think it’s more up to the individual seminarian to fall into the devils hands than it is the institution itself corrupting seminarians. For sure all seminaries have a particular character. But just because a seminary is not to my liking, does not mean that there is something evil about it. Can you give me an example of an American Catholic institution that you think is “really Catholic”?
You are right, ACORN was dropped by CCHD because of its unethical practices. I’m glad that CCHD took action against ACORN. This is an indication that CCHD is doing its job in maintaining its ethical integrity in its dealings with funded groups. The problem would have been if CCHD continued to fund ACORN after knowing that ACORN was acting poorly.
The sad part is that ACORN has done a lot of good over the years. Now because of some unethical practices of some of its members, they lost a lot of credibility. Hopefully they will be able to get their act together again and return to the good work they were founded to do.
Every institution can fall because of the actions of some of its members. We don’t have to look to far back in our own Catholic history to find some very powerful leaders doing some very bad things. The same can be said for our country.

I don’t agree with the “logical conclusion” to which you came. Why do keep talking about killing?
By Alinsky’s admission he used the back of the yards because it presented the greatest challenge and a fine place to test his theories. And his rules for organizing worked.He created the atmoshere in which that diverse group of people and cultures could get relief and attention.
Alinsky’s goal was to create ways of organizing for power.
Power was the goal.
He wrote a book about how to do it–“Rules for Radicals”. One of the rules he listed: the end justifies almost any means and morality only lies with the winner. He dedicated that book to the one whom he saw as the ultimate dissenter—Lucifer. He viewed Lucifer as successful because he did ultimately achieve his own kingdom. How inspiring!
Alinsky says he never joined any organizations-not even the ones he helped organize because he prized his independence too much. To me that says he viewed the joiners as eventually relinguishing what even the Lord does not deny us–free will. Eventually they just become part of the larger “machine” to which they have attached themselves for what started as a good cause. That seems dehumanizing and manipulative.

 

[yayi238]

continued…

ACORN did begin with good intentions and surely did accomplish many positive things for the needy–that is in line with Catholic belief and duty. As can happen with any organization its’ true purpose and aim has mutated. It has become a partisan and corrupt organization who continues to promote its agenda on the backs of the poor and needy. Rerum Novarum is strongly opposed to socialism–too much power to the political community. For some reason CCHD has continued its support way past the time when ACORN mis-deeds were made public. I now question the motives of CCHD. Do they support funding to right to life groups? According to VOCAL the answer is no. Why? Why did CCHD need a secular organization to dispense Catholic funding and grants? Even Bishop Morin cannot assure us that Catholic funds/grants were not embezzled or used for voter fraud yet funds to ACORN continued to increase.

Why is CCHD now promoting JustFaith? Why was Jezreel connected to Call to Action during the very time it and its’ supporters were excommunicated?

I also never said seminaries were corrupt or evil. I did say you are only hearing one side while there–as you stated the particular character.

Justice can only be accomplished when moral laws that govern the human spirit are obeyed.
I hope it is still allowable for a Catholic to question. Why do you seem threatened by my concerns? C’mon man, where is the love?

As I mentioned in an early post, I went to the extreme with my definition of “means to an end” idea to make a point. As you have seen, Alinski’s Rules for Radicals, says that one can use “the end justifies ALMOST any means”. The word “ALMOST” is very important in this phrase from Alinski. You originally did not include “most” as you were trying to quote Alinski and that is what I was commenting on. The word almost is there as an indication that one has to act morally. I will say a little more about morality later. Alinski never evoked any immoral activity. He did what to shack up the status quo however. As far a Alinski dedicating Rules for Radicals to Lucifer, I’m not real sure that that is true. I am holding a copy of the Rules in my hand and have spoken to a person who know IAF and Alinski’s work well and nowhere is there a “dedication” to Lucifer. However, when I Googled this, I came up with a lot of hits that make that claim. None of them seemed to be real credible.

Alinski never overly associated himself with the IAF affiliates because he didn’t what to give one affiliate an unfair advantage of seem to be playing favorites. He wanted each affiliate to stand on its own. One of the axioms of IAF is never do for someone, what they can do for themselves. The idea behind this is that he wanted people to learn how to operate in the community by gaining experience. He highly valued each person’s integrity as free human beings. That is why he didn’t join any of the organizations that came about by the work of IAF.

The power that Alinski is talking about is not a power for his own personal gain. What he wanted to do, and did accomplish, was to help people in the community who had previously been without a voice or power in the community teach them how to be part of the political process in their communities. The power was a tool to help them learn how to make their lives better. At the time, the people who owned the meat packing companies were very corrupt (Chicago 1930’s and 40’s). The bosses of the companies were under paying and over working the workers in awful working conditions. People were getting sick, injured and losing their lives in these plants. Alinski wanted to help these people gain the power they needed to improve their working conditions. There is the love! What is wrong with helping people organize for power against an unjust situation? Saul Alinski was and Industrial Areas Foundation is committed to helping organize people who are left out of the political process gain the skills they need to make their community better for bringing up families. The family is at the center of why IAF does what it does. IAF believes that healthy families make for better communities.

 

[ljpgoodwin]

You did say that “…I always heard that the Seminary was the devil’s playground so be careful there. You are only hearing one side of things”. This implies that there is an evil power afoot in seminaries and that I am unable to see the intricacies of issues.

I am a faithful Catholic person who places the right to life from conception until natural death at the very center of all that I do. My life’s work and my personal prayer life will attest to that. No one can accuse me of being “un-Catholic”.

As you have said on two occasions, “you are only hearing one side at the seminary”, seeing as you don’t know what seminary I go to, or how old I am, or where I have lived, or what kind of work I have done, or much of anything about me, I find it odd that you can suggest that I am only “getting one side”! That is just not true. The fact that I can support CCHD, IAF, work to end the death penalty and abortion, work to help kids in foster care and adoptions, call my state elected officials, and take part in my parish suggests that I do, in fact have a good capacity to see the intricacies of many of life’s issues. So I think your accusation that I am only hearing one side is unfounded.

For the record, I am not “threatened” by your comments. What I am trying to do is address some very typical misconceptions about CCHD, IAF and JustFaith. Your comments sound very similar to the kinds of comments so often heard from people who may not have had much direct experience with CCHD, IAF or JustFaith. It seems like you might be someone who is on the conservative side, which is great. Often people from this ecclesial or political perspective, are suspicious of the work of CCHD and IAF and suspicious of the curriculum of JustFaith. I respect someone who does not take everything at face value. However, what I am suggesting is that it is possible to be someone who leans left and still be a faithful and holy Catholic. That is the case with CCHD, IAF JustFaith and me.

You are right; the Church does not support unbridled socialism. Nor does the Church support unbridled capitalism. The Church does not support any one economic or political system. The Church’s job is to criticize political and economic systems in the light of the Revelation that is Jesus Christ.

CCHD, IAF do in fact support pro-life issues. They may do it in a way that is not as explicit as going and praying the rosary outside of Planned Parenthood, as good as that is. However, CCHD and IAF have as the focus of their work, addressing issues of poverty here in the U.S. In the same way, Catholic Relief Service (CRS) has as its focus, poverty in 100 other nations around the world. The United States Conference of Catholic Bishops has many departments and not all of them are devoted to the right to life issues, as important as they are. There are other issues that the Church has to address and poverty is a big one. CCHD would never and has never advocated for anything that would support aborting, capital punishment, euthanasia, or embryonic stem cell research. These issues are not the main part of their expertise. Changing and confronting the systems that keep people in poverty is what CCHD does. When we decrease poverty we impact the lives of people who are susceptible to finding themselves in a situation where they wrongly think abortion or violence is an option. This is how CCHD does its part to protect human life.

I suspect that you will find more people on the left who are associated with CCHD and by the same token you will find more people on the right who are associated with Respect Life offices. That does not mean that the people at the Respect Life office are any less Catholic than the people associated with CCHD.

Again, the Love is found in the work of CCHD, IAF and JustFaith as they help people live better family centered lives in which they can recognize in every deeper ways the freedom and dignity that comes from by a child of God through Jesus Christ. This is the meaning of acting morally as the Catholic Church understands morality. Morality as the Church understands it is not ONLY or primarily about simply following laws and rules. Morality is about developing one’s conscience in the light of Revelation and reason. Read the Catechism on morality. Not just the first few lines but all the way through to the development of conscience. You will see that rules are a secondary part of morality. Rules are at the service of a human freedom that is directed to a well ordered love of God. Morality is much more nuanced than “Justice can only be accomplished when moral laws that govern the human spirit are obeyed”, as you stated. Morality is more about responsibility and freedom to love than it is about obeying.

Deus Caritas Est, by JP2 does a wonderful job of helping us understand the relationship of love of God and love of neighbor.

Peace

 

[ljpgoodwin]

…continued for other post…

Again, the Love is found in the work of CCHD, IAF and JustFaith as they help people live better family centered lives in which they can recognize in every deeper ways the freedom and dignity that comes from by a child of God through Jesus Christ. This is the meaning of acting morally as the Catholic Church understands morality. Morality as the Church understands it is not ONLY or primarily about simply following laws and rules. Morality is about developing one’s conscience in the light of Revelation and reason. Read the Catechism on morality. Not just the first few lines but all the way through to the development of conscience. You will see that rules are a secondary part of morality. Rules are at the service of a human freedom that is directed to a well ordered love of God. Morality is much more nuanced than “Justice can only be accomplished when moral laws that govern the human spirit are obeyed”, as you stated. Morality is more about responsibility and freedom to love than it is about obeying.

Deus Caritas Est, by JP2 does a wonderful job of helping us understand the relationship of love of God and love of neighbor.

Peace

 

[yayi238]

jplgoodwin,

Just returned from Saints/Lions game. Who dat!! We won!

I never said you were un-catholic. In a previous post you said I may be right that the seminary is the devil’s plaground–have you changed your mind on that?
Here are Alinsky’s own words on why he never joined ANY organizations:
Alinsky did not join political organizations. When asked during a 1970’‘s interview he replied:
“Not at any time. I’ve never joined any organization – not even the ones I’ve organized myself. I prize my own independence too much. And philosophically, I could never accept any rigid dogma or ideology, whether it’s Christianity or Marxism. One of the most important things in life is what judge Learned Hand described as ‘that ever-gnawing inner doubt as to whether you’re right.’ If you don’t have that, if you think you’ve got an inside track to absolute truth, you become doctrinaire, humorless and intellectually constipated. The greatest crimes in history have been perpetrated by such religious and political and racial fanatics, from the persecutions of the Inquisition on down to Communist purges and Nazi genocide.” [1]
By the way, is Rules for Radicals required seminary reading now? That piques my interest.
You mentioned that the Bishops have to be, as you say, “fully aware” of all aspects of Catholic funding recipients. So then Bishop Morin was fully aware when he allowed CCHD to continue to fund ACORN even after Rathke embezzled and concerns over voter registration fraud surfaced–what you called “acting poorly”. CCHD funding/grants did not cease until mid Nov. 2008–by Morin’s own admission. He didn’t act as a “good steward”. He is human. And ACORN is not–it has become a political machine. It seems now ACORN has lost even more credibility and the US Census Bureau is severing ties to them.
Have anti-abortion organizations received anything from Archdioceses even close to the millions that were given to ACORN? I guess the poor babies can’t be counted on to vote for at least a few years.
I am glad that you can respect me for not taking things at face value.
I cherish my right to question and hope and pray that others who may be blindly donating to CCHD or any other that just happens to have “Catholic” in its’ name will also do some research into where the money goes and who is in charge of dispensing it or any services it may provide.
Because of the above I do not believe that my ideas about CCHD are at all unfounded.
I no longer trust CCHD. As you said, powerful leaders do very bad things and institutions fall. I never understood why CCHD let a secular organization dispense Catholic funds.
My interest in CatholicAnswers began because I wanted to know about JustFaith and Jezreel—why he was associated with Call to Action in the mid 1990’s–just during the time when that organization AND ITS SUPPORTERS were excommunicated by a Bishop and later the Vatican concurred. I have received no official answer on that.
I now want to know about motives.
Again, remember, Judas wanted to help the poor by selling the oil which was going to be used to bless Jesus. And Jesus said No. Jesus knew Judas’ motives.
What are the motives? Really helping the poor or pushing agendas on the backs of the poor?
I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
God bless you.

 

[ljpgoodwin]

I have changed my mind about the seminary being the devils playground in so much as I think you may have been implying that my brother seminarian and I might be like blind sheep being led by the agenda of some professors. So, if I am confused about what you meant about by your statement that “seminaries can be the devils playground and that I am only hearing one side of the story”, could you please clarify for me what you may meant by such a statement.

I don’t see anything wrong or anything satanic about Alinsky’s remarks about his membership in organizations. He was an individual who was concerned with the well being of people who were being treated unjustly. Alinsky, a Jew, worked during some of the most tumultuous and iconoclastic days of the 20th century. He was rightfully rebelling against a system that he rightly saw as raciest, misogynistic along with “the bomb” which was a real threat in the back of many well intentioned people’s minds. The Second Vatican Ecumenical Council had just ended. Give the guy a break! Was he a good orthodox Catholic…absolutely not? Does someone have to be a good orthodox Catholic to be able to bring justice to the oppressed, absolutely not? Should the Church cooperate with people and secular institutions that are working to help bring freedom to the oppressed and dignity to the down trodden, ABSOLUTLY YES! This is the point of Gaudium es Spes. The world and creation is primarily good, because God made it good, and worthy of our (Christian) cooperation.

The fact is that Alinsky’s legacy, the IAF, does good work and reflects Catholic social teaching in its actions. It does not support any anti-life issues. That is why the USCCB supports the IAF and other agencies like it. There is PICO piconetwork.org/ to name just one. There are others.

Not every chapter of ACORN may have been participating in unethical behavior. Perhaps your bishop had reason to believe that the work they were doing was good. The point is that when things came to light about just how serious things were at ACORN, CCHD stopped funding ACORN. When it became clear that ACORN was doing unethical things, CCHD did not fund them in the next funding cycle. Funding from CCHD happens once a year. There is a cap of $50,000 a year for each group for a limited amount of years and then the agency is ineligible for funding for a time of, I think 3 years.

Have you ever taken part in a “site visitation”? If not, you should give it a try. It’s a lot of fun and a great education. What happens is that the CCHD representative, usually an employee of the diocese or Catholic Charities gets a group of people together and they go and visit the group who has applied for CCHD funds. The site visitation is looking to see that the group is following Catholic teaching, is remaining non-partisan (more on partisan politics later) and is doing what they say they are doing, among other things. They “vet” the group, in other words. When you join one of the site visitation groups, you get a chance to meet people in your community who are really trying to put their faith into practice. It really is a wonderful experience.

Some of the doubts you have expressed about IAF and CCHD almost sounds like you are accusing your bishop and CCHD of willingly participating in unethical practices. What do you think the intentions of your bishop and CCHD are? Do you think that they are doing things that are working against the ability of God’s kingdom breaking through here on earth? I am not suggesting that is what you are saying. Rather, I am WONDERING if that is what you are saying. Tell me what you think your bishops and CCHD’s intentions are please?

CCHD, IAF and JustFaith are really about faithful and holy people trying to learn more about their faith and putting what they have learned into practice.
Rules for Radicals is not required reading in this seminary. We rightfully have a copy of it in our library. Is that a bad thing? By the way, Rules for Radicals was dedicated to someone named Sara and not the devil as you suggested. I still defend IAF because of the great work it does around the country. That does not mean that it might one day have some ethical problems. We will hopefully address these problems swiftly if they come up. We should address the issues of unethical behavior with a mind to help them regain their moral standing. We hopefully would not be interested in dwelling on how bad they are, but rather, we should ask them, how can we help you stand upright again. Talking to someone about their sin is not about saying “goodbye”, it’s about saying, “come closer” so that we can be in relationship again.

As far as CCHD funding “secular” organizations goes. As it says in Lumen Gentium, the Church, as part of its mission of evangelization, is obligated to participate in the secular efforts in the world that are working to bring about peace and justice and the dignity of the human person. That is why the Church has a representative at the U.N. Granted not all that the U.N. does is necessarily good, from a Catholic perspective, but we need to be there to help the U.N. see where it is falling down. Again, we don’t leave relationships when someone is wrong, we continue with them and set an example.

You have said that CCHD and IAF and JustFaith participate in partisan activities. I disagree with this completely. Although CCHD JustFaith and IAF do participate in many things that are closely tied to Republican ideals, that does not mean they are promoting a partisan agenda. The fact that JustFaith, CCHD and IAF are all 100% pro-life does not mean that they are supporting partisan ideals. All it means is that they have some goals in common.

I will stand by Jack Jezreel’s defense of his attendance at “A Call to Action” meeting. For the record, people, so that means Catholics, are free to struggle with and talk about things for faith and morals. We need to be careful not to fall into mortal sin however. The group “A Call to Action” was originated by the USCCB in 1976. It wasn’t until somewhere around 2006 that one bishop in the U.S. wanted to excommunicate some of its members. I’m not sure if that excommunication ever really happened. In any event, A Call to Action was for a number of years supported by the USCCB and the Vatican.

more in next post

 

[ljpgoodwin]

continued

So please don’t be so quick to condemn the intensions of Jack Jezreel. I know Jack to be a good, faithful Catholic family man who is on fire with a passion to helping people learn more about the Roman Catholic Church. People disagree with Catholic social teaching, to be sure. But the fact remains that our Church, which includes Pope Benedict has told us time and time again that the lack of awareness of Catholic social teaching is one of the biggest catechetical problems in our Church today. Catholic social teaching is one of the most controversial issues because it touches almost every part of our lives. Just like the Gospels, which are the source of Catholic social teaching, it challenges people to think like a Christian first and an American second. So when you see CCHD, JustFaith or IAF and automatically think, “Oh, there go those Republicans pushing their agenda down our throats again”. CCHD, JustFaith and IAF are first and foremost Catholic.
On what do you base your ideas of CCHD, IAF and JustFaith?

I know this because I have sustained, firsthand experience with CCHD, IAF and JustFaith. And that firsthand experience deeply enriched my faith and therefore my life. Even now that I have been away from them for a time, I find my post-graduate theological study supports the work that they do. I am a better, more conscious Catholic human being because of my contact with these groups.

Peace

LG

P.S. I’m happy to hear your team won the game…but I don’t know anything about hockey

 

[Stylite]

What do you make of the CCHD funded groups that openly promote abortion?

Grantees like “Young Workers United” are so blatantly pro-abortion that it’s hard to believe that the CCHD is ignorant of their views. It’s all on their web-site for crying out loud.

See this scan of the Young Workers United’s voting guide, taken from their website: bellarmineveritasministry.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/voter-guide2.jpg

Check out the research done by the Bellarmine Veritas Ministry for more of this: bellarmineveritasministry.org/campaigns/cchd/

 

[Stylite]

“By the way, Rules for Radicals was dedicated to someone named Sara and not the devil as you suggested.”

Read the entire dedication page. The dedication to Lucifer is toward the end of the dedication section. I’m looking at it right now.

 

[kage_ar]

The group “A Call to Action” was originated by the USCCB in 1976.

Call to Action’s own website says otherwise.

cta-usa.org/about/history/

There was a USCCB convention of that name, and after that those who disagree with Holy Mother Church in doctrinal matters of faith and morals chose to use the same name to start their own group.

 

[Stylite]

I wonder if JustFaith teaches things like this:

…We make this pronouncement: Whether considered as a doctrine, or an historical fact, or a movement, Socialism, if it remains truly Socialism, even after it has yielded to truth and justice on the points which we have mentioned, cannot be reconciled with the teachings of the Catholic Church because its concept of society itself is utterly foreign to Christian truth.

and

If Socialism, like all errors, contains some truth (which, moreover, the Supreme Pontiffs have never denied), it is based nevertheless on a theory of human society peculiar to itself and irreconcilable with true Christianity. Religious socialism, Christian socialism, are contradictory terms; no one can be at the same time a good Catholic and a true socialist.

and

Accordingly, Venerable Brethren, you can well understand with what great sorrow We observe that not a few of Our sons, in certain regions especially, although We cannot be convinced that they have given up the true faith and right will, have deserted the camp of the Church and gone over to the ranks of Socialism, some to glory openly in the name of socialist and to profess socialist doctrines, others through thoughtlessness or even, almost against their wills to join associations which are socialist by profession or in fact.

Quotes from the Encyclical QUADRAGESIMO ANNO (vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xi_enc_19310515_quadragesimo-anno_en.html)

 

[dixieagle]

I wonder if JustFaith teaches things like this:

…We make this pronouncement: Whether considered as a doctrine, or an historical fact, or a movement, Socialism, if it remains truly Socialism, even after it has yielded to truth and justice on the points which we have mentioned, cannot be reconciled with the teachings of the Catholic Church because its concept of society itself is utterly foreign to Christian truth.

Am I to understand that you equate the pursuit of social justice with socialism?

 

[Stylite]

Am I to understand that you equate the pursuit of social justice with socialism?

Not at all.

However socialism is contrary to true social justice. This is clear in the teachings of the Church. I’m just wondering if JustFaith covers this vital aspect of social justice.

I’ve never been to a JustFaith meeting, so I was asking someone who had.

If JustFaith teaches social justice as the Church teaches it, then great!

 

[dixieagle]

Not at all.

However socialism is contrary to true social justice. This is clear in the teachings of the Church. I’m just wondering if JustFaith covers this vital aspect of social justice.

I’ve never been to a JustFaith meeting, so I was asking someone who had.

If JustFaith teaches social justice as the Church teaches it, then great!

I’ll let you know; my daughter (28, pro-life all the way, very orthodox Catholic, quite committed to all Catholic social teaching) has just started the 30 week JustFaith program and will be filling me in as it progresses.