Social justice vs. liberation theology

[dan]

I’m confused how one draws the line between authentically advocating and practicing the church’s social justice teachings vs. falling into the error of “liberation theology.”

Any help would be appreciated!

 

[ribozyme]

I’m confused how one draws the line between authentically advocating and practicing the church’s social justice teachings vs. falling into the error of “liberation theology.”

Any help would be appreciated!

It is just a left wing version of Catholicism. Tell them to read Rawls instead.

 

[puzzleannie]

the Church teaching on social justice is based on the Gospel.
Liberation Theology is based on Marxism.

 

[vz71]

I’m confused how one draws the line between authentically advocating and practicing the church’s social justice teachings vs. falling into the error of “liberation theology.”

Any help would be appreciated!

It is just a left wing version of Catholicism. Tell them to read Rawls instead.

Given it appears you are looking for Catholic teaching here, anything by Rawls is not going to give it to you.

 

[mmyers]

In the writings of John Paul II you will find many times when he speaks of economic policies that he was a supporter of free markets. Many people unfamilar with economics will often say that social justice and free markets are at odds, when in fact the ultimate goal of free markets is to give everyone an equal playing field. It takes the control from a central power and gives it to the people.

Liberation Theology is a Catholic take on socialism which is very constricting and gives the power to the few. It has been shown to stifle growth and grow the gap between the rich and the poor.

The biggest warning that has been given to us from Church writings is that with any economic system (especially with capitalism) we must watch out for materialism. An economic system should support the freedoms of the people and as Catholics this means loving God above all else.

Some examples of how to practice the Church’s teachings on Social justice:

Supporting the green movement. Pope Benidict has spoken many time on the value of preserving the earth. Many people want to do this through mandated government programs. This would require oversite and tax money. I would suggest this. It should not be a mandate, but an incentive program in place. Big companies like oil and coal don’t want added costs through mandated programs(they would just be passing those costs onto us anyways). If instead there was incentive to do things that were better for the environment than they would want to do those things because it would reduce those costs and help the customer. Right now, because of government involvement there is not enough competition in these markets and they don’t have to compete for thier customers and they don’t have to please thier customers with doing socially responsible things. When was the last time you got to choose your electric company?

This is getting long and I have to go…if you are interested give me a social issue and I will give you a non-liberation theology way to resolve or work towards resolving the issue.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

the Church teaching on social justice is based on the Gospel.
Liberation Theology is based on Marxism.

Liberation Theology is based on the bible. It has in some instances and in some places acquired Marxist overtones, mostly in Latin America. There is nothing wrong with Liberation Theology as theology. That is why it is not banned by the Church. The church cautions on and properly I believe decries Marxist theories that support violence as a methodolgy for practicing liberation theology.

 

[BamaRider]

SpiritMeadow said this-

Liberation Theology is based on the bible. It has in some instances and in some places acquired Marxist overtones, mostly in Latin America. There is nothing wrong with Liberation Theology as theology. That is why it is not banned by the Church. The church cautions on and properly I believe decries Marxist theories that support violence as a methodolgy for practicing liberation theology.

I’m not sure what LT is, but it doesn’t sound like something I’d sign up for. I mean if it’s left of SpiritMeadow, its gotta be waaaaay out there.

How far is the nearest Maid Rite store from ya Spirit? I like those sandwiches and fries but can’t get them in Alabama.

 

[Swan]

The below is but a short section of the information on LT from Maryknoll/Orbis books @:

landreform.org/boff2.htm

*As far back as 1971, the final document “Justice in the World,” the topic of the second ordinary assembly of the Synod of Bishops, already showed traces of liberation theology. Its echoes had become much stronger by 1974, at the third assembly of the Synod, on “Evangelization of the Modern World.” The following year, Paul VI devoted fifteen paragraphs of his apostolic exhortation Evangelii Nuntiandi to the relationship between evangelization and liberation (nos. 25-39). This discussion forms the central core of the document, and without attempting to summarize the Pope’s position, we can just say that it is one of the most profound, balanced, and theological expositions yet made of the longing of the oppressed for liberation.

The magisterium has also produced the "Instruction on Some Aspects of Liberation Theology, " under the auspices of the Prefect and Secretariat of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, dated August 6, 1984, and published September 3. The main points about this document are its legitimation of the expression and purpose of liberation theology, and its warning to Christians of the risk inherent in an uncritical acceptance of Marxism as a dominant principle in theological endeavor. The subject had been studied in Rome since 1974, and had been the concern of innumerable sessions of the International Theological Commission, though it did not publish my results until 1977, when it produced a “Declaration on Human Development and Christian Salvation” (included as an appendix in Kloppenburg’s book mentioned above), which shows a grasp of the questions such as was to be expected from such an august theological body.

The magisterium of the church in Latin America has expressed itself primarily through the documents of two conferences. The second general conference of the episcopate of Latin America, held at Medellin, Colombia, in 1968, spoke of the church “listening to the cry of the poor and becoming the interpreter of their anguish”; this was the first flowering of the theme of liberation, which began to be worked out systematically only after Medellin. The third general conference, held at Puebla, Mexico, in 1979, shows the theme of liberation running right through its final document. The liberation dimension is seen a an “integral put” (§§355, 1254, 1283) of the mission of the church, “indispensable” (§§562, 1270), “essential” (§1302). A large put of the document (§§470-506) is devoted to evangelization, liberation, and human promotion, and a whole chapter (§§1134-56) to the “preferential option for the poor,” a central axis of liberation theology.

The general tenor of the pronouncements of the magisterium, whether papal or coming from the Synod of Bishops, has been to recognize the positive aspects of liberation theology, especially with reference to the poor and the need for their liberation, as forming put of the universal heritage of Christian commitment to history. Criticisms of certain tendencies within liberation theology, which have to be taken into account, do not negate the vigorous and healthy nucleus of this form of Christian thinking, which has done so much to bring the message of the historical Jesus to the world of today.*

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

Liberation Theology is based on the bible. It has in some instances and in some places acquired Marxist overtones, mostly in Latin America. There is nothing wrong with Liberation Theology as theology. That is why it is not banned by the Church. The church cautions on and properly I believe decries Marxist theories that support violence as a methodolgy for practicing liberation theology.

While some variations have “Maxist” local variations in it, the other part is that Liberation Theology shows the power struggle with the classes at different levels of society. In relation to the Catholic Church, it often asks the question (which is one which needs to be in the open) of: Does the Church serve the people or the people serve the Church? Does the Church represent the lowest tiers in society or are they just another tool for the higher tiers to take advantage of the lower ones?

That approach is where discussions get interesting in relation to the Vatican in Rome given parts of Church history, (or “tradition” as some can describe it).

Use the French Revolution for example, France was Roman Catholic inside and out, but the Church was so close to the government and had exceptions, levied taxes, that it was seen by most of the population as only representing the highest castes. This lead eventually to a bloody revolution.

It is no different today in the struggle and debate about temporal power and wealth and how it relates to the world and the Church within the world as some parts of it lean downwards, others lean upwards, as is the nature of humankind.

 

[RCM]

Dan:

I recommend reading Jon Sobrino and Archbishop Oscar Romero. That is a good place to start.

 

[mmyers]

So ultimately we need to decide what actually works. If the Chuch is supporting the ‘overtones’ of Liberation Theology, that says to me that the idea behind it, to liberate the poor from oppressors, is something worth supporting.
The problem lies with the question of how to go about this. When we take the avenue of socialism we end up enslaving the very people that we set out to free.

So how are we to free the poor from their oppressors?

Well first we must free them spiritually and this is our ultimate goal. A more temperal goal is to even the economic playing field.

Here is an exerpt from the Copenhagen Summit:

Pope John Paul II, in his Encyclical Centesimus Annus (n. 34), stressed the importance of the free market as “the most efficient instrument for utilising resources and effectively responding to needs”. But likewise he also immediately noted that “there are many human needs which find no place on the market” and that “it is a strict duty of justice and truth not to allow such fundamental human needs to remain unsatisfied”.
In the past years, the need for an integral or comprehensive approach to social development has been reconfirmed. There has been a renewed sense of the importance of economic growth and of markets. But there is now also an increased understanding of which policies of social investment are most likely to generate a sustainable combination of economic growth and social progress. Growth must be integrated with other economic and human values so that it becomes “quality growth”, that is growth with equity, stability and ecological sustainability. Economic growth, especially in a knowledge-based economy, cannot be separated from investment in people, in the creative and innovative capacities of the human person, the primary resource of any economy and of any society.

 

[markomalley]

I’m confused how one draws the line between authentically advocating and practicing the church’s social justice teachings vs. falling into the error of “liberation theology.”

Any help would be appreciated!

Rather than looking at peoples’ opinions of what the Church teaches, I suggest you read what the Church says about what she teaches.

I would suggest: INSTRUCTION ON CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THE “THEOLOGY OF LIBERATION” written by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger in 1984, as prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

Just like if you want to learn about the Church’s AUTHENTIC teaching on Social Justice, I would suggest you read the Compendium of the Social Doctrine of the Church, published by the Pontifical Council for Justice and Peace.

You will find Cardinal Ratzinger’s flawless analysis of the actual reality of “Liberation Theology” in the former document. In the latter document, you will find not a few things that are conveniently skipped by so-called “social justice” advocates.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I’m confused how one draws the line between authentically advocating and practicing the church’s social justice teachings vs. falling into the error of “liberation theology.”

Any help would be appreciated!

It’s simple: Charity benefits two people. The person who receives it obviously benefits. But the person who gives also benefits. That person receives merit and grace.

But who benefits when the charity is confiscated by force?

Christ’s teaching is that we should give, and give freely, not that the government should force us to give.

There are a couple of other points – does forced (government) charity work? Look around – there are now families locked into welfare for three or four generations. Crime, drug abuse, out-of-wedlock births, single parent households and so on have all gone up drastically since the inception of the Great Society.

Next, where are the Social Justice programs? Social Justice, remember is changing society so that people who formerly poor are integrated into the economic mainstream and able to support themselves.

Name a Social Justice program.

 

[Swan]

It’s simple: Charity benefits two people. The person who receives it obviously benefits. But the person who gives also benefits. That person receives merit and grace.

But who benefits when the charity is confiscated by force?

Christ’s teaching is that we should give, and give freely, not that the government should force us to give.

There are a couple of other points – does forced (government) charity work? Look around – there are now families locked into welfare for three or four generations. Crime, drug abuse, out-of-wedlock births, single parent households and so on have all gone up drastically since the inception of the Great Society.

Next, where are the Social Justice programs? Social Justice, remember is changing society so that people who formerly poor are integrated into the economic mainstream and able to support themselves.

Name a Social Justice program.

I would have less problem with what you’re saying if this issue had ever involved a level playing field, but it hasn’t. These folks have been systematcially stripped of all rights and kept on the bottom through corruption and terror. They are simply trying to regain a portion of what was theirs to being with. The way they have been treated is inexcusable. The folks on the top did not get there in a legitmate way so leaving things as they are is rewarding this systematic abuse, terror and corruption. Because of this it sounds like you are saying that once you’re on the top you get to stay - doesn’t matter how you got there.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I would have less problem with what you’re saying if this issue had ever involved a level playing field, but it hasn’t. These folks have been systematcially stripped of all rights and kept on the bottom through corruption and terror.

Wow! People are finally understanding what I’ve been saying.

Now, when you introduce the economic tenents of “Liberation Theology,” just who will introduce them? Who will made the decisions, run the government, and decide who gets what?

Why the same people who stripped them of all righrts and kept them on the bottom, of course!!

Look at Hugo Chavez, Fidel Castro, and all the other Latin American dictators – going back nearly 200 years.

They are simply trying to regain a portion of what was theirs to being with. The way they have been treated is inexcusable. The folks on the top did not get there in a legitmate way so leaving things as they are is rewarding this systematic abuse, terror and corruption. Because of this it sounds like you are saying that once you’re on the top you get to stay - doesn’t matter how you got there.

Guess what – that’s what you’re saying. The record of history is that when someone gets on top in those countries, they stay on top.

So we create even more powerful dictators, and that’s the answer?

 

[SpiritMeadow]

SpiritMeadow said this-

I’m not sure what LT is, but it doesn’t sound like something I’d sign up for. I mean if it’s left of SpiritMeadow, its gotta be waaaaay out there.

How far is the nearest Maid Rite store from ya Spirit? I like those sandwiches and fries but can’t get them in Alabama.

Don’t worry, stay clear of all books that speak to theology and all classes at all universities in theology and you should be able to avoid any of the liberation theologies quite easily.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

While some variations have “Maxist” local variations in it, the other part is that Liberation Theology shows the power struggle with the classes at different levels of society. In relation to the Catholic Church, it often asks the question (which is one which needs to be in the open) of: Does the Church serve the people or the people serve the Church? Does the Church represent the lowest tiers in society or are they just another tool for the higher tiers to take advantage of the lower ones?

That approach is where discussions get interesting in relation to the Vatican in Rome given parts of Church history, (or “tradition” as some can describe it).

Use the French Revolution for example, France was Roman Catholic inside and out, but the Church was so close to the government and had exceptions, levied taxes, that it was seen by most of the population as only representing the highest castes. This lead eventually to a bloody revolution.

It is no different today in the struggle and debate about temporal power and wealth and how it relates to the world and the Church within the world as some parts of it lean downwards, others lean upwards, as is the nature of humankind.

Right on from what I know. I’ve read fairly extensively in the area. I thought the irony was when JPII sent Romero to El salvado to tone it down and of course the Archbishop became the greatest proponent. Of course the government murdered him for it. Such fear does the powers that be have when the people unite to gain their human rights.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Dan:

I recommend reading Jon Sobrino and Archbishop Oscar Romero. That is a good place to start.

Sobrino is excellent "Christianity at the Crossroads and anything by Gustavo Gutierrez is also excellent. His treatment of Job is breathtaking…

 

[mmyers]

Sobrino is excellent "Christianity at the Crossroads and anything by Gustavo Gutierrez is also excellent. His treatment of Job is breathtaking…

What I am failing to see is proof. Read this, do that…people on top-bad…poor people-good. WHAT!?

The argument is not whether or not it sounds like a good idea…it is whether or not it works. The sixties mentality that the only way to create a good society is to steal from the rich and give to the poor is not working.

 

[vern_humphrey]

What I am failing to see is proof. Read this, do that…people on top-bad…poor people-good. WHAT!?

The argument is not whether or not it sounds like a good idea…it is whether or not it works. The sixties mentality that the only way to create a good society is to steal from the rich and give to the poor is not working.

And latin America is the poster child for that kind of fallacious thinking. Eliminate one dictator, and another springs up to take his place.

Remember how Daniel Ortega was the darling of the left – until he finally took power (and took everything else along with it)?