Social justice vs. liberation theology

[Swan]

What I am failing to see is proof. Read this, do that…people on top-bad…poor people-good. WHAT!?

The argument is not whether or not it sounds like a good idea…it is whether or not it works. The sixties mentality that the only way to create a good society is to steal from the rich and give to the poor is not working.

As I mentioned in an above post, the folks that “have” originally stole from the folks who now “have not”. That’s the problem. And the oppression certainly weren’t working for the oppressed. Surely there is some middle ground between millions suffering in a corrupt right wing dictatorship or a left wing dictatorship.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

As I mentioned in an above post, the folks that “have” originally stole from the folks who now “have not”. That’s the problem. And the oppression certainly weren’t working for the oppressed. Surely there is some middle ground between millions suffering in a corrupt right wing dictatorship or a left wing dictatorship.

Some people believe a right-wing dictatorship is impossible. As if.

 

[vern_humphrey]

As I mentioned in an above post, the folks that “have” originally stole from the folks who now “have not”. That’s the problem. And the oppression certainly weren’t working for the oppressed. Surely there is some middle ground between millions suffering in a corrupt right wing dictatorship or a left wing dictatorship.

Yep – and the way to find that middle ground is not to create a government with the power “Liberation Theology” calls for.

 

[mmyers]

What this post started with is how to bring about social justice and what it has become is a discussion on liberation theology, and while not a bad discussion I ask people to post some ideas on how they would bring about social justice.

 

[vern_humphrey]

What this post started with is how to bring about social justice and what it has become is a discussion on liberation theology, and while not a bad discussion I ask people to post some ideas on how they would bring about social justice.

Let’s start here:
ecatholic2000.com/sj/socjust.shtml

In order to define social justice, let us begin, by taking a look at what social ministry is:

Social Ministry has two main aspects: social service (also known as Parish Outreach) and social action

Social Service is giving direct aid to someone in need. It usually involves performing one or more of the corporal works of mercy. That is, giving alms to the poor, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick or imprisoned, taking care of orphans and widows, visiting the shut-ins etc. Another name for it is charity.

Social Action is correcting the structures that perpetuate the need. Another name for this is Social Justice. Through the lens of social justice, we begin to take a look at the problems and issues facing us in our own communities, the nation and finally the world, and we begin to ask questions such as, “Why is there so much unemployment in our area?” “Why are there so many poor in our community?” “How will the deforestation of our rain forests affect our global climate?” etc. Very often when you are performing social service, you also become involved in solving the problem which created the need in the first place, and the two are closely related and often blend together. An example of this would be, someone comes to your food pantry, and tells you he/she has no food, because he/she lost their job recently. You may know of an employer looking to hire someone right away for a job requiring little or no skills. You give that person food, then place that person in touch with the employer. You then would have solved both problems for that person. (a) the immediate need of food through an act of charity (social service) and (b) you would have corrected the problem which created and perpetuated the need. (social justice)

(My emphasis)

Now, all too often we mistake charity for social justice. Welfare is charity, not social justice. Raising the minimum wage is charity, not social justice.

And I ask again – name a social justice program.

 

[mmyers]

Let’s start here:
ecatholic2000.com/sj/socjust.shtml

(My emphasis)

Now, all too often we mistake charity for social justice. Welfare is charity, not social justice. Raising the minimum wage is charity, not social justice.

And I ask again – name a social justice program.

Yes, we have given a man a fish, now we must teach him to fish.

I was watching a PBS special on the Kyoto mandates and how everyone was angry because they were not mandated in this country and we could have lead the world in the green effort. The main topic was ripping apart our government because we did not force car companies and oil companies to cut energy useage and ‘go green’…The thing is though I can’t watch TV without seeing comercials about Ford using Soy foam in thier cars or how BP is going to save the earth by cutting energy costs.

No government had to step in and tell them how to do it…we the consumer demand these products.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Yes, we have given a man a fish, now we must teach him to fish.

I was watching a PBS special on the Kyoto mandates and how everyone was angry because they were not mandated in this country and we could have lead the world in the green effort. The main topic was ripping apart our government because we did not force car companies and oil companies to cut energy useage and ‘go green’…The thing is though I can’t watch TV without seeing comercials about Ford using Soy foam in thier cars or how BP is going to save the earth by cutting energy costs.

No government had to step in and tell them how to do it…we the consumer demand these products.

When I ran for Congress in '04 I did a lot of studying. I found that most of our problems are caused by government. We have spent trillions creating the mess we’re in.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

What I am failing to see is proof. Read this, do that…people on top-bad…poor people-good. WHAT!?

The argument is not whether or not it sounds like a good idea…it is whether or not it works. The sixties mentality that the only way to create a good society is to steal from the rich and give to the poor is not working.

Well I guess it does require reading a fair amount of history to come to the conclusion that in most places were a small wealthy class has control, everyone else suffers. I have no idea what your proofs are or your beef for that matter.

The person asked about liberation theology. The posts are designed to give the person some good sources to learn about it.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Yes, we have given a man a fish, now we must teach him to fish.

I was watching a PBS special on the Kyoto mandates and how everyone was angry because they were not mandated in this country and we could have lead the world in the green effort. The main topic was ripping apart our government because we did not force car companies and oil companies to cut energy useage and ‘go green’…The thing is though I can’t watch TV without seeing comercials about Ford using Soy foam in thier cars or how BP is going to save the earth by cutting energy costs.

No government had to step in and tell them how to do it…we the consumer demand these products.

Dear when energy companies and car companies are spending their money to convince you that they are “good on the environment” you can be most sure they are receiving pressure from outside sources because they are NOT eco-friendly. LOL…

And the govt always has to force them. We’ve been forcing them to up gas mileage for years and get rid of gas guzzlers. They do nothing voluntarily because it’s right, they are always forced to do it.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Well I guess it does require reading a fair amount of history to come to the conclusion that in most places were a small wealthy class has control, everyone else suffers. I have no idea what your proofs are or your beef for that matter.

The person asked about liberation theology. The posts are designed to give the person some good sources to learn about it.

I guess it does require reading a fair amount of history to come to the conclusion that in most places were socialist utopias are implemented, a small wealthy class takes control, everyone else suffers.

 

[mahoneyt]

the Church teaching on social justice is based on the Gospel.
Liberation Theology is based on Marxism.

That is a horrible stereotype and doesn’t even get close to what liberation theology actually teaches, the Marxist element is only one part of a multilayered system. If you ask a Liberation Theologian, they will tell you Marx is only a tool used to achieve their end. LIberation Theology isn’t just Marxism blended with Christianity, Ronald Reagan died, why do you still believe his propaganda? Listen to what PB16 has to say about it, because he actually understands it.

 

[vern_humphrey]

That is a horrible stereotype and doesn’t even get close to what liberation theology actually teaches, the Marxist element is only one part of a multilayered system. If you ask a Liberation Theologian, they will tell you Marx is only a tool used to achieve their end. LIberation Theology isn’t just Marxism blended with Christianity, Ronald Reagan died, why do you still believe his propaganda? Listen to what PB16 has to say about it, because he actually understands it.

So tell us – every time something like this is tried, it ends up in a brutal dictatorship. What’s to prevent that from happening** this** time? What will keep the Stalins, Maos, Hugo Chavezes and so on from seizing the centralized power created by this system?

 

[ribozyme]

I guess it does require reading a fair amount of history to come to the conclusion that in most places were socialist utopias are implemented, a small wealthy class takes control, everyone else suffers.

Sweden is largely considered socialist and it has a gini coefficient of .25 .

 

[vern_humphrey]

Sweden is largely considered socialist and it has a gini coefficient of .25 .

Now tell me about Romania, Russia, Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, East Germany, and so on.

When you concentrate power in the hands of a few – as you must to make “Liberation Theology” work – what keeps those few from becoming just like their predecessors?

Read George Orwell’s Animal Farm before replying.

 

[ribozyme]

Now tell me about Romania, Russia, Cuba, Venezuela, North Korea, East Germany, and so on.

When you concentrate power in the hands of a few – as you must to make “Liberation Theology” work – what keeps those few from becoming just like their predecessors?

Read George Orwell’s Animal Farm before replying.

Yes, I will read the wonderful work of the *anti-socialist *George Orwell.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Yes, I will read the wonderful work of the *anti-socialist *George Orwell.

(Note to the audience; George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair) was a committed Socialist, who wrote about social conditions in England (The Road to Wigan Pier) and who joined the Communist militia of the Workers’ Party of Marxist Unification and fought on the Republican side in the Spanish Civil War. There, he saw socialism and communism in action, and afterwards denounced those systems.)

 

[ribozyme]

(Note to the audience; George Orwell (Eric Arthur Blair) was a committed Socialist, who wrote about social conditions in England (The Road to Wigan Pier) and who joined the Communist militia of the Workers’ Party of Marxist Unification and fought on the Republican side in the Spanish Civil War. There, he saw socialism and communism in action, and afterwards denounced those systems.)

So George Orwell didn’t write *Animal Farm *as an argument against socialism. Just the response I was trying to elicit.

 

[vern_humphrey]

So George Orwell didn’t write *Animal Farm *as an argument against socialism. Just the response I was trying to elicit.

George Orwell started out like you, but learned from experience.

 

[Genesis315]

I’m confused how one draws the line between authentically advocating and practicing the church’s social justice teachings vs. falling into the error of “liberation theology.”

Any help would be appreciated!

Part of authentic social justice is not just seeking the common good in regards to the temporal world, but also as to the salvation of souls. Likewise, we can only use means that are consonant with the Gospel as handed down from the Apostles.

Liberation theology neglects the eternal (where our hope should be placed) and also advocates means (such as organized violence) which themselves are not just.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Part of authentic social justice is not just seeking the common good in regards to the temporal world, but also as to the salvation of souls. Likewise, we can only use means that are consonant with the Gospel as handed down from the Apostles.

Liberation theology neglects the eternal (where our hope should be placed) and also advocates means (such as organized violence) which themselves are not just.

And that, as history shows, simply results in a newer, even more corrupt ruling class.