Social justice vs. liberation theology

[SpiritMeadow]

One of the many problems with Liberation Theology is that it purports to change society and economics with no clear idea of the outcome, no standards for success and no feedback to indicate progress toward success. It’s a recipe for disaster.

Source for this?

 

[minimom]

What I find scary are those who consider themselves ‘Catholic’ yet embrace extreme liberalism. My brother thinks abortion, contraception, Planned Parenthood, environmental extremism, socialism, etc. are all OK, and even says that’s all OK with Jesus! Beware of being brainwashed by extreme social activism, led by activist nuns and priests who disagree with unchanging Church teachings. Scary stuff. People like my brother are over the edge, yet have no idea they are being duped. I believe it’s a form of demonic influence, perhaps even possession, which is why I’ve cut most ties with my brother. I just pray for him and send him a Mass card at Christmas. He’s defending evil, yet can’t see it. If it’s against Church teaching, it’s against the Lord-don’t mess with it.

 

[JNewfield]

My understanding of Liberation Theology and of social justice programs is that under these “labels” there is an argument to broadened attention from “charity” to “justice”. There is an attempt to direct attention to the “redemption” of unjust social systems and the advancement of a world in which systems are guided by a vision of the kingdom of God – ruled as God would rule. In this case, it seems that in some cases one would have to work through government to achieve the changes that would ease oppression (in other cases one may have to work with private enterprise). I believe that focusing on programs of charity and the effectiveness of governmental involvement in these programs may direct attention away from a very important part of Liberation Theology – elimination of systemic evil.

 

[DL82]

My understanding, though it is extremely limited, is that Catholic teaching on social justice derives love of neighbour from unchanging theological truths about God and the plan of salvation that He has revealed through His Word, whereas liberation theology seeks to use sociological findings about human liberation to create doctrine about God and His plan of salvation. Liberation itself is not the problem, it’s when we put the cart before the horse that we lose sight of the love of God which is the reason for it all.

 

[vern_humphrey]

My understanding of Liberation Theology and of social justice programs is that under these “labels” there is an argument to broadened attention from “charity” to “justice”. There is an attempt to direct attention to the “redemption” of unjust social systems and the advancement of a world in which systems are guided by a vision of the kingdom of God – ruled as God would rule. In this case, it seems that in some cases one would have to work through government to achieve the changes that would ease oppression (in other cases one may have to work with private enterprise). I believe that focusing on programs of charity and the effectiveness of governmental involvement in these programs may direct attention away from a very important part of Liberation Theology – elimination of systemic evil.

Social Justice is different from charity. Essentially, charity is the Corporal Works of Mercy. Social Justice is changing society so people who now need charity don’t need it in the future. It’s the old saw about, “Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him to fish and you feed him for life.”

Unfortunately, many people interpret Social Justice to mean “What I consider just.”

Name a Social Justice program.

 

[mapleoak]

Social Justice is different from charity. Essentially, charity is the Corporal Works of Mercy. Social Justice is changing society so people who now need charity don’t need it in the future. It’s the old saw about, “Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him to fish and you feed him for life.”

I can’t understand why it is so hard to understand that no matter how much the government takes from you and gives away to its interests, it does not help you get to heaven.’
I don’t know. Maybe the government is going to heaven.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I can’t understand why it is so hard to understand that no matter how much the government takes from you and gives away to its interests, it does not help you get to heaven.’
I don’t know. Maybe the government is going to heaven.

That’s my point. One who gives gains merit and grace. Heaven will be full of politicians and bureaucrats.

And they’ll get there like they live – on our money.

 

[ribozyme]

Social Justice is different from charity. Essentially, charity is the Corporal Works of Mercy. Social Justice is changing society so people who now need charity don’t need it in the future. It’s the old saw about, “Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him to fish and you feed him for life.”

Unfortunately, many people interpret Social Justice to mean “What I consider just.”

Name a Social Justice program.

Here are two social justice programs

From Denmark:
arbejdsmarkedspolitiske foranstaltninger

From Sweden:
AMS-åtgärder

Well, those programs lowered the headline unemployment rate in those countries.

stefanmikarlsson.blogspot.com/2006/05/denmarks-overrated-flexicurity.html

 

[vern_humphrey]

Here are two social justice programs

From Denmark:
arbejdsmarkedspolitiske foranstaltninger

From Sweden:
AMS-åtgärder

Well, those programs lowered the headline unemployment rate in those countries.

stefanmikarlsson.blogspot.com/2006/05/denmarks-overrated-flexicurity.html

Pardon me while I put my hip boots on.

They aren’t social justice programs, they aren’t in the United States, and they didn’t lower unemployment (although they allowed the governments to pretend unemployment was down.)

 

[Athanasius296]

Next, where are the Social Justice programs? Social Justice, remember is changing society so that people who formerly poor are integrated into the economic mainstream and able to support themselves.

Name a Social Justice program.

I just wanted to quote quickly on this statement…there is a “Catholic” Social Justice program out there called “Just Faith”. This was started back east by a guy named Jack Jezreel. To learn more about it you can visit their website at

www.justfaith.org

A very brief overview of this program is that it is very politically based, liberal to be more precise. Their view of sin shifts more off of the person and personal responsibility to a focus more on “structures of sin” such as the US Government, Capitalism, and the “rich”. While it is true that there are systems that are built up in society that promulgate sin, it is ultimately up to the individual person to choose Life. Our ultimate liberation is liberation from SIN, be they personal, social, or even worldwide sins. Liberation Theology in essence is worldly focused rather than the concentration on erasing sin.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I just wanted to quote quickly on this statement…there is a “Catholic” Social Justice program out there called “Just Faith”. This was started back east by a guy named Jack Jezreel. To learn more about it you can visit their website at

www.justfaith.org

A very brief overview of this program is that it is very politically based, liberal to be more precise. Their view of sin shifts more off of the person and personal responsibility to a focus more on “structures of sin” such as the US Government, Capitalism, and the “rich”. While it is true that there are systems that are built up in society that promulgate sin, it is ultimately up to the individual person to choose Life. Our ultimate liberation is liberation from SIN, be they personal, social, or even worldwide sins. Liberation Theology in essence is worldly focused rather than the concentration on erasing sin.

Here is a standard definition of Social Justice:

ecatholic2000.com/sj/socjust.shtml

In order to define social justice, let us begin, by taking a look at what social ministry is:

Social Ministry has two main aspects: social service (also known as Parish Outreach) and social action

Social Service is giving direct aid to someone in need. It usually involves performing one or more of the corporal works of mercy. That is, giving alms to the poor, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick or imprisoned, taking care of orphans and widows, visiting the shut-ins etc. Another name for it is charity.

Social Action is correcting the structures that perpetuate the need. Another name for this is Social Justice. Through the lens of social justice, we begin to take a look at the problems and issues facing us in our own communities, the nation and finally the world, and we begin to ask questions such as, “Why is there so much unemployment in our area?” “Why are there so many poor in our community?” “How will the deforestation of our rain forests affect our global climate?” etc. Very often when you are performing social service, you also become involved in solving the problem which created the need in the first place, and the two are closely related and often blend together. An example of this would be, someone comes to your food pantry, and tells you he/she has no food, because he/she lost their job recently. You may know of an employer looking to hire someone right away for a job requiring little or no skills. You give that person food, then place that person in touch with the employer. You then would have solved both problems for that person. (a) the immediate need of food through an act of charity (social service) and (b) you would have corrected the problem which created and perpetuated the need. (social justice)

Things like running soup kitchens – however praisworthy such things are – are charity, not social justice.

Now, when I go to the site you offered, I find this:

What does the JustFaith program entail?
JustFaith is an extended justice education process that meets weekly for 8 months employing books, videos, lecture, discussion, prayer, retreats, hands-on experiences, and community building.

Tell me where the Social Justice is in all that?

What poor person is lifted out of poverty, given a good job, and made not only able to support his family, but also to contribute to those less fortunate?

The great Catholic Social Justice program was Catholic schools – and we are closing them daily, in full knowledge that the Public School system has failed the poor – so badly that a recent study found that in the 50 largest cities in the US, only about 50% of the children who entered high school made it through to graduation.

 

[minimom]

Athanasius raises an excellent point! The devil is and always has done all he can to damage the Church. In the past 35 years or so he has convinced many that ‘social’ programs are all about good-helping others, etc. Please be very careful of these ‘programs.’ If you ‘dig’ you’ll find they oppose Church teaching in many cases, but their agenda is always well hidden. Not to say all these programs are bad, but if they’re run with a ‘liberal’ flavor, beware. It likely is something the Lord doesn’t want us involved in.

 

[NewUlm1976_2000]

I just wanted to quote quickly on this statement…there is a “Catholic” Social Justice program out there called “Just Faith”. This was started back east by a guy named Jack Jezreel. To learn more about it you can visit their website at

www.justfaith.org

A very brief overview of this program is that it is very politically based, liberal to be more precise. Their view of sin shifts more off of the person and personal responsibility to a focus more on “structures of sin” such as the US Government, Capitalism, and the “rich”. While it is true that there are systems that are built up in society that promulgate sin, it is ultimately up to the individual person to choose Life. Our ultimate liberation is liberation from SIN, be they personal, social, or even worldwide sins. Liberation Theology in essence is worldly focused rather than the concentration on erasing sin.

It is a very worth wild program, I highly recommend it. I am a member of both the I and II program.

It does touch on Liberation Theology but mostly follows the Church definition. It is about real life applications of Social Justice in the world. The next sessions should start in September.

 

[ribozyme]

Pardon me while I put my hip boots on.

They aren’t social justice programs, they aren’t in the United States, and they didn’t lower unemployment (although they allowed the governments to pretend unemployment was down.)

I said arbejdsmarkedspolitiske foranstaltninger and AMS-åtgärder lowered the headline unemployment. Didn’t I say “headline.”

The **headline **unemployment rate in Sweden is only 5-5.5%, but this number is extremely misleading as it only includes a small number of the people who the government pays not to work. Many unemployed are sent to so-called “labor market political activities” who have no meaningful purpose then to reduce the headline unemployment number. Including them, unemployment is 8%.

stefanmikarlsson.blogspot.com/2005/11/does-sweden-defy-economic-logic.html

As for unemployment, the seemingly low numbers in Denmark reflect in fact the same kind of manipulation of statistics that the Swedish government have been using. While official unemployment in Denmark was only 133,500 or 4.8% in March 2006, there were in the fourth quarter (latest available number in Denmark’s statistical data bank )some 117,600 people or 4.2% in so-called “arbejdsmarkedspolitiske foranstaltninger(=“labor market political activities”, what in Sweden is refered to as “AMS-åtgärder”)”. This means that Denmark have even more hidden unemployment in that respect than even Sweden, where “only” 3.2% (144,000) were put away in “labor market political activities”

stefanmikarlsson.blogspot.com/2006/05/denmarks-overrated-flexicurity.html

The** headline **unemployment rate in Sweden is only 5–5.5%, but … [m]any unemployed are sent to so-called “labor market political activities” — activities whose only purpose is to reduce the official unemployment rate.

mises.org/story/2259

Things like running soup kitchens – however praisworthy such things are – are charity, not social justice.

Well, soup kitchens are social justice… they act as a safety net for those who are under adversity. We never know the contingencies of the future, so they act as a safeguard for the poor.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Well, soup kitchens are social justice… they act as a safety net for those who are under adversity. We never know the contingencies of the future, so they act as a safeguard for the poor.

Soup kitchens are charity, not social justice.

ecatholic2000.com/sj/socjust.shtml

In order to define social justice, let us begin, by taking a look at what social ministry is:

Social Ministry has two main aspects: social service (also known as Parish Outreach) and social action

Social Service is giving direct aid to someone in need. It usually involves performing one or more of the corporal works of mercy. That is, giving alms to the poor, feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, visiting the sick or imprisoned, taking care of orphans and widows, visiting the shut-ins etc. Another name for it is charity.

Social Action is correcting the structures that perpetuate the need. Another name for this is Social Justice. Through the lens of social justice, we begin to take a look at the problems and issues facing us in our own communities, the nation and finally the world, and we begin to ask questions such as, “Why is there so much unemployment in our area?” “Why are there so many poor in our community?” “How will the deforestation of our rain forests affect our global climate?” etc. Very often when you are performing social service, you also become involved in solving the problem which created the need in the first place, and the two are closely related and often blend together. An example of this would be, someone comes to your food pantry, and tells you he/she has no food, because he/she lost their job recently. You may know of an employer looking to hire someone right away for a job requiring little or no skills. You give that person food, then place that person in touch with the employer. You then would have solved both problems for that person. (a) the immediate need of food through an act of charity (social service) and (b) you would have corrected the problem which created and perpetuated the need. (social justice)

 

[ribozyme]

Soup kitchens are charity, not social justice.

An example of this would be, someone comes to your food pantry, and tells you he/she has no food, because he/she lost their job recently. You may know of an employer looking to hire someone right away for a job requiring little or no skills. You give that person food, then place that person in touch with the employer. You then would have solved both problems for that person. (a) the immediate need of food through an act of charity (social service) and (b) you would have corrected the problem which created and perpetuated the need. (social justice)

You may also know of “labour market policy measures” or “labor market political activities” that you can send them to so they do not sit at home and collect welfare benefits.

Denmark has been quite succesfull in reducing unemployment. At the same time the costs of creating activation and other schemes have been very high. OECD judges that total costs are about 5% of GDP, which is the highest amount among OECD-countries. This paper presents a comprehensive description of the recent Danish labour market policies. The paper goes through all the different programmes and shows that most of the measures introduced have increased the reservation wages of job seekers. The result was a sharp growth in the number of participants on a number of new programmes for the unemployed and for those seeking alternatives to work. The total number of people on some sort of passive or active scheme rose until late in the 90’s where admission to programmes was restricted and a strong economic upswing created new demand for labour. A final analysis of the probability that an unemployed person becomes employed, based on individual transition data, shows that the new labour market policies introduced after 1993 did not increase the probability that an unemployed person would get a job. However, there is a positive effect in 1997 and 1998 coinciding with the attempts to tighten admission to labour programmes.

econpapers.repec.org/paper/hhsaarcls/2001_5F010.htm

A social justice program from Denmark.

 

[vern_humphrey]

You may also know of “labour market policy measures” or “labor market political activities” that you can send them to so they do not sit at home and collect welfare benefits.

econpapers.repec.org/paper/hhsaarcls/2001_5F010.htm

A social justice program from Denmark.

You call it “Social Justice” but that’s not what it is. It’s just another form of inefficient government charity.