Social nudity and proper clothing

[nablaise]

I was reading the other thread about public nudity being a sin, and I remembered what I have been musing about.

Concerning sins of lust and immodesty, I think it all comes back to the commandment to love. To the fact that God is truth and love. There It all comes back to the meaning and sign/message we transmit and receive and our intentions.

When God made us in his image, he fashioned our bodies in a such a way that they have a message to us by the way they are and function. Therefore I think it is important and healthy for our souls to see human nude bodies often with pure attitude aka modesty.
The evils of porn is that it deform the message very strongly.

Clothing on the other hand, I think, are meant as signs. But we have also distorted their proper use by just not caring to mean something by how we dress. Priest have liturgical clothes. Military and police, doctors, students, firefighters, and various people have uniforms to symbolize something.

I think lust is caused by distortion of meaning. It is a desorder and works with desorders.
It seem to me now that modern clothing can cause more lust than a normal nude body.

I think we should work for fashion with a liturgical touch even if we are lay people. And we should try to restore the pure meaning of the goodness of the human body. We must reclaim the splendor of the human body if we are to win the war against this porngraphic culture. We should not let porn be the only way people can see nudity. Perhaps it is God’s punishment that we suffer so much from of porn. We let it set the meaning of the body, our world view of the male and female, and our culture. Catholic are in defensive mode.

I think we should develop a culture which embrance full truth: proper nudity and proper clothing. People should be allowed to go fully nude on beaches for instance. This is a good environment meant for full nudity. I think clothing in water are a distortion of truth, a disorder.

I think male and female should dress clearly differently to symbolize femininity, maternity, masculinity, paternity, grace, authority, etc…

Our suffering is a suffering of meaning. We have lost meaning in the primary things of our lives. We are truly living in an super artificial world.
Satan the liar truly rules the world.

I hope I am on the right line. What else should we do, how creative can we be to identifying what is truly sin, and truly virtue, and live it out?

 

[BobObob]

I was reading the other thread about public nudity being a sin, and I remembered what I have been musing about.

Concerning sins of lust and immodesty, I think it all comes back to the commandment to love. To the fact that God is truth and love. There It all comes back to the meaning and sign/message we transmit and receive and our intentions.

When God made us in his image, he fashioned our bodies in a such a way that they have a message to us by the way they are and function. Therefore I think it is important and healthy for our souls to see human nude bodies often with pure attitude aka modesty.
The evils of porn is that it deform the message very strongly.

Clothing on the other hand, I think, are meant as signs. But we have also distorted their proper use by just not caring to mean something by how we dress. Priest have liturgical clothes. Military and police, doctors, students, firefighters, and various people have uniforms to symbolize something.

I think lust is caused by distortion of meaning. It is a desorder and works with desorders.
It seem to me now that modern clothing can cause more lust than a normal nude body.

I think we should work for fashion with a liturgical touch even if we are lay people. And we should try to restore the pure meaning of the goodness of the human body. We must reclaim the splendor of the human body if we are to win the war against this porngraphic culture. We should not let porn be the only way people can see nudity. Perhaps it is God’s punishment that we suffer so much from of porn. We let it set the meaning of the body, our world view of the male and female, and our culture. Catholic are in defensive mode.

I think we should develop a culture which embrance full truth: proper nudity and proper clothing. People should be allowed to go fully nude on beaches for instance. This is a good environment meant for full nudity. I think clothing in water are a distortion of truth, a disorder.

I think male and female should dress clearly differently to symbolize femininity, maternity, masculinity, paternity, grace, authority, etc…

Our suffering is a suffering of meaning. We have lost meaning in the primary things of our lives. We are truly living in an super artificial world.
Satan the liar truly rules the world.

I hope I am on the right line. What else should we do, how creative can we be to identifying what is truly sin, and truly virtue, and live it out?

As John Paul II said in his Theology of the Body, the problem with porn is not that it shows too much, but that it shows too little. Porn presents the body as nothing more than a sexual object.

How we dress obviously depends greatly on the situation. However, we should all agree that we should never dress in a way that plays a negative role with regard to the human person. JPII said:

"Because God created it, the human body can remain nude and and uncovered and preserve intact its splendor and its beauty…Nakedness as such is not to be equated with physical shamelessness…Immodesty is present only when nakedness plays a negative role with regard to the value of the person…The human body is not in itself shameful …Shamelessness [just like shame and modesty] is a function of the interior of a person.’

—Karol Cardinal Woytyla [Pope John Paul ll ]

‘Love & responsibility’, 1981

An overnight transition to having more causal nudity socially allowed could cause problems in this particular culture in the short term. However, I think gradually having more casual, situational, and non-sexual nudity from time to time would better allow people in our culture to properly appreciate the human body in the long term, rather than lust after it.

 

[Ponyguy]

A very small contribution to the “social nudity” aspect:
We have a pool in our back yard, and the kids love it as a place to cool off and splash a little on the hot summer days. But, getting out of the pool, I always freeze my hiney with that wet swimsuit wrapped around my butt, dripping on the deck and re-wetting my legs. Friends who also have a pool suggest swimming nude;
“When you exit the pool, you’ll dry off almost instantly and you won’t freeze your ‘cheeks’.” They also had other comments relating to the sensuality of nude swimming, which probably should pertain to married couples…

 

[StillWondering]

I love how priest have liturgical attire. It really reminds us the that Mass is Heaven meeting Earth. Divine shared to Humanity.

I appreciate military dress. It reminds me of how Roman Citizens are bound by life and death oaths when they turn in their tunics and put on the military armor and sword. They are no longer the same. There is a divide and their uniforms are signs of their oaths.

I’m disappointed in doctor long white jackets. These used to be socially reserved for recognized scientists in society. Over time, even less recognized scientists began to wear the long white jackets. Then medical doctors who broke away from the pure science research and philosophy that was core and foundation to medical science started wearing the while long jackets. Lines got blurred. Personally, I am quite disappointed.

Disclaimer on post: Personal opinions.

P.S. I would love medical science to clearly delineate between the researchers who uses proper mathematical formulas, the clinical practitioners, and the quacks who are bad physicians and quacks who use poor-statistics to do research.

 

[Joe_Kelley]

. . .
P.S. I would love medical science to clearly delineate between the researchers who uses proper mathematical formulas, the clinical practitioners, and the quacks who are bad physicians and quacks who use poor-statistics to do research.

You remind me of an old line: Figures don’t lie; but liars can figure. It was particularly apparent in the recent Health bill debates.

 

[edwest2]

As John Paul II said in his Theology of the Body, the problem with porn is not that it shows too much, but that it shows too little. Porn presents the body as nothing more than a sexual object.

How we dress obviously depends greatly on the situation. However, we should all agree that we should never dress in a way that plays a negative role with regard to the human person. JPII said:

"Because God created it, the human body can remain nude and and uncovered and preserve intact its splendor and its beauty…Nakedness as such is not to be equated with physical shamelessness…Immodesty is present only when nakedness plays a negative role with regard to the value of the person…The human body is not in itself shameful …Shamelessness [just like shame and modesty] is a function of the interior of a person.’

—Karol Cardinal Woytyla [Pope John Paul ll ]

‘Love & responsibility’, 1981

An overnight transition to having more causal nudity socially allowed could cause problems in this particular culture in the short term. However, I think gradually having more casual, situational, and non-sexual nudity from time to time would better allow people in our culture to properly appreciate the human body in the long term, rather than lust after it.

The last paragraph makes no sense. It is not situational. I made drawings of naked people in life drawing class but there was a clear understanding of the roles played by all involved.

God bless,
Ed

 

[BobObob]

BobObob;6685574:

An overnight transition to having more causal nudity socially allowed could cause problems in this particular culture in the short term. However, I think gradually having more casual, situational, and non-sexual nudity from time to time would better allow people in our culture to properly appreciate the human body in the long term, rather than lust after it.

The last paragraph makes no sense. It is not situational. I made drawings of naked people in life drawing class but there was a clear understanding of the roles played by all involved.

By situational, I meant it depends on the context. Being nude on a beach, where people can choose not to go, is much different from being nude in a grocery store where people cannot. It is also different from being nude in Church, especially for a wedding or funeral, since lack of clothing in that situation can be extremely disrespectful.

 

[nablaise]

What I think is, nudity should be made liturgical.
The human being is a liturgical being. He understands things in their contexts.
The point is that everything have their meaning and liturgy seeks to respect the meaning.

I love when Scott Hahn was explaining that the Creation story is liturgical. The ‘Cosmos’ is a temple. Things are sacred, it is their desacration that shock us.

I think a Pope will eventually write an encyclical on nudity to fight this pornographic culture.

 

[Spanner]

Those are some interesting comments on social nudity. I have always enjoyed going nude, but to do it where others are gathered can be a cause for temptation, although many observe that it is the individual who determines that. I talked to my confessor about going nude outdoors, and he told me as long as nobody saw me it was OK. That is good advice no matter whether it might be an occasion of sin to someone or not, since most places prohibit being nude where others can see you.

I was reading the bible about the appearances of Jesus after His resurrection when He was meeting them in Galilee. The scene was Jesus walking on the beach when the apostles spotted Him. When they realized that it was Jesus on the beach, Peter girded himself because he was naked and leaped into the water to get to the beach.

So, I think being naked is situational as one of the earlier comments stated. Can one be naked safely on his property even if others can see them. After all the observer does not need to look. Of course, the nude person may be where they cannot be avoided by others, and I think that is wrong if it is a place where nudity is not expected. In the state of Vermont casual nudity is permitted anywhere, unless there are specific ordinances against it.