Socialist membership a grave sin?

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seeker63

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This may sound like a political question but is in fact one of morality.

For years I was a conservative Republican, but grew disillusioned with that.Then I was more or less a small “l” libertarian.

A few years ago I got laid off and have been unable to find decent, permanent, full-time work since. This made me very bitter about corporate America.

For a few months last year and early this year I was involved in a socialist organization, oddly enough about the same time I was in RCIA. I was interested mainly in their economic theories, but less so in their other causes.

And though they often stressed their Marxist origins, for some reason my mind was clouded and for a few months I think I seriously believed they were espousing a form of Marxism without all the negative, totalitarian elements in it.

I officially joined and got a membership card, made small finaincial contributions, bought books, magazines, and papers, and attended seminars. I went to one of their anti-death penalty protests, even though I’ve never especially opposed the death penalty.

I soon grew bored with the whole business and annoyed with their constant insistence I pay them dues and sell their papers in my spare time. I stayed involved only as long as I did because I enjoyed the company of some of the members and had been very lonely and isolated for some time.

I was also concerned with the atheist or irreligious stands of many of the members. The chapter was often involved in “abortion rights” activities, and though I pointedly avoided involvement there, they were definitely a “red flag” (no pun intended) that I shouldn’t be involvd in this group.

I have not been involved with this group for many months, though I still am on their e-mailing list. Should I just ask to be dropped from the list or should I send in a formal letter of resignation?

The more I’ve read about the thoughts and writings of the Popes, the more I’ve realized what a mistake this involvement was. It seems the Church has the answers the political parties do not, but how could those be applied without a Catholic political party?

My point to all this is that the more I’ve read about Confession and the deeper I’ve gotten into the examination of my conscience, the more I’ve started to worry that my socialist involvement was a mortal sin. What say you all?
 
You should simply go to confession and discuss this with your priest.

When I teach RCIA, I tell people “confession is for what bothers you. If you feel a need to talk about something that is bothering you, you should talk in the confessional.”
 
It is NOT a mortal sin IF you did not know in advance that it was.

3 things are required:
The act must be in fact BE a serious offense,
you have to KNOW the act is a serious offense,
and you have to freely do the act anyway.
 
I would think socialism, in it’s pure form, is not necessarily atheistic.

Ask anybody collecting Social Security.

In fact, America isn’t a pure capitalistic society; we do have social programs that are to benefit all of society.

An interesting read is the book - “The Good Old Days; They Were Terrible!” which takes us through a time when there were no Boards of Public Health, Child Labor Laws, and Mental Institutions were basically jails.

I think it was Karl Marx who said, “Religion is the opiate of the masses.” but that was just one socialist politicians opinion.
 
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wcknight:
It is NOT a mortal sin IF you did not know in advance that it was.

3 things are required:
The act must be in fact BE a serious offense,
you have to KNOW the act is a serious offense,
and you have to freely do the act anyway.
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My understanding, according to Church teaching, is that you are two-thirds correct:
  1. The act must be a serious offense.
  2. You must know the act is wrong.
  3. You must freely choose to perform the act.
The knowledge requirement is not that one know the act pertains to a grave matter, but only that the act itself is sinful.

BTW, socialism is incompatible with Christianity. The Church has spoken on this point often.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
“The knowledge requirement is not that one know the act pertains to a grave matter, but only that the act itself is sinful.”
“BTW, socialism is incompatible with Christianity. The Church has spoken on this point often.”
 
BTW, socialism is incompatible with Christianity. The Church has spoken on this point often
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So Social Security is incompatible with Christianity?

Sounds good. Let’s dissolve it and I get 7.9% more on my paycheck.
 
seeker63 said:
“The knowledge requirement is not that one know the act pertains to a grave matter, but only that the act itself is sinful.”

**

IOW, one cannot say, “Oh, well I knew X was a sin, but since I didn’t know it was a grave sin, I’m off the mortal hook.”

– Mark L. Chance.
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Right, well in this case I wasn’t sure it was a sin at all, but it finally dawned on me.
 
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seeker63:
Right, well in this case I wasn’t sure it was a sin at all, but it finally dawned on me.
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And that dawning is an important distinction. It is one thing to innocently become involved with something. It is quite another to go into a situation knowing it is wrong, and then making excuses for it later.

😃

– Mark L. Chance.
 
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mlchance:
BTW, socialism is incompatible with Christianity. The Church has spoken on this point often.

– Mark L. Chance.
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Really? Care to elaborate? Acts 2:45 “And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all [men], as every man had need.” doesn’t sound like capitalism to me, but rather communalism.
 
gnat:
Really? Care to elaborate? Acts 2:45 “And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all [men], as every man had need.” doesn’t sound like capitalism to me, but rather communalism.
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Acts 2:45 neither describes nor justifies socialism. The communal aspect of the early Church described in Acts was voluntary, and it was not universal. Socialism is not voluntary; it is compulsory.

As for how socialism is not compatible with Christianity, I’ll let Pope Leo XIII explain.

Excerpt:

“But the evils which We then deplored have so rapidly increased that We are again compelled to address you, as though we heard the voice of the prophet ringing in Our ears: “Cry, cease not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet.”[1] You understand, venerable brethren, that We speak of that sect of men who, under various and almost barbarous names, are called socialists, communists, or nihilists, and who, spread over all the world, and bound together by the closest ties in a wicked confederacy, no longer seek the shelter of secret meetings, but, openly and boldly marching forth in the light of day, strive to bring to a head what they have long been planning – the overthrow of all civil society whatsoever.”

– Mark L. Chance.
 
I am, however, still interested in the theory of distributism, which was proposed by Chesterton, Belloc, and Gill, and was a “third way,” a Catholic alternative to socialism and capitalism. But I don’t know if it could be practically applied today. And frankly, I was always more interested in distributism than socialism anyway, even from the first day I got inolved with those socialists.

It became quickly clear to me that the socialists were naive and overly idealistic, but with a disturbing ugly undercurrent that I’m sure could grow into totalitarian cruelty and violence if they were put into power.

They often said that history had proven pure socialism can work, but admitted all those “success stories” were quickly crushed by totalitarianism from within or without. When I asked if history had yet taught them how to prevent their worker’s paradise from turning into a totalitarian gulag, I got a lot of hemming and hawing and dirty looks.
 
As to the relationship between Socialism and Distributionism, read the debate book: ‘Do We Agree?’ between Chesterton and Shaw with Belloc as chairman.

Adam
 
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seeker63:
It became quickly clear to me that the socialists were naive and overly idealistic, but with a disturbing ugly undercurrent that I’m sure could grow into totalitarian cruelty and violence if they were put into power.

They often said that history had proven pure socialism can work, but admitted all those “success stories” were quickly crushed by totalitarianism from within or without. When I asked if history had yet taught them how to prevent their worker’s paradise from turning into a totalitarian gulag, I got a lot of hemming and hawing and dirty looks.
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That’s typical of utopianists. Every single attempt ever to perfect society via political action has led to terror, mass murder, and rampant injustice. Socialists and their cousins - communists, fascists, and Nazis - have been at the forefront of this bloodshed for the past 100 or so years.

As to distributism, I confess I know nothing of it.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
" The knowledge requirement is not that one know the act pertains to a grave matter, but only that the act itself is sinful."

Mark, check CCC 1857: “Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter…”

and CCC 1858: “Grave matter is specified by the 10 Commandments…”

As for politics, I figured out when I was 15 that, while the ideal of Communism was lovely, it depended on a complete lack of greed on the part of its citizens; therefore capitalism would work better, since it is compatible with greed. (Not that that choice kept me from being a bleeding-heart liberal for many years!)

Our OP should talk to his confessor about it. My personal opinion is that he got involved in something that he thought would improve the world, and then realized he was misled.

“When I asked if history had yet taught them how to prevent their worker’s paradise from turning into a totalitarian gulag, I got a lot of hemming and hawing and dirty looks.”

:rotfl::rotfl:
 
My family suffered during this sad experiment in Poland. My uncle was tortured out of the priesthood :(. He never speaks of it due to sadness of not laying all down for the Lord. (How many really could lay down your life?)

Remember Socialism is for the best of the group regardless of the individual. It is only a matter of time no matter what the best intentions the man (due to his fallen state) that the totalitarians will take over.

Read the Road to Serfdom by Fredric Hayak.
 
therefore capitalism would work better, since it is compatible with greed
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Should we not work to abolish greed? By endorsing capitalism you are endorsing greed, a deadly sin.
 
Any “ism” can be sinful, and the Church stands separate from them all so she can call them to account if they move into it.

Socialism can be a sin where it denies God, or the diginity of the human person in the name of the collective.

Capitalism can be a sin if it leads to systemic exploitation to produce wealth.

To both of the above, add, “among other things.”

One can’t really use Catholic teaching to endorse any one political philosophy. However, for a Catholic, the teachings of the Church direct him on how to interpret and respond to the implementation of all of them.

Blessings,

Gerry
 
gnat:
Really? Care to elaborate? Acts 2:45 “And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all [men], as every man had need.” doesn’t sound like capitalism to me, but rather communalism.
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Ah but they did this of their own free will and were not coerced by the government.
 
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