"Socialization" and Homeschooling

[lifeisbeautiful]

I like to say:
There are a lot of opportunities out there such as homeschooling co-ops and interacting with the world during school hours. We also participate in the same extra-curricular activities that building school kids do.
I also try to not exaggerate:
Socialization is more dependent on the parent. So for some parents, it is really easy, and for others it is more difficult. Socialization CAN be more difficult for me because it is all up to me. It’s not perfect (although neither is building school socialization). But the difficulties are currently far outweighed by the benefits of homeschooling, so I continue to work hard to provide my kids with the social opportunities that they want and need.

 

[thomfra]

May I chime in without being flamed?

Honest, innocent discussion.

I think many people have different interpretations of what “socialization” means. I truly believe homeschooled kids have plenty of opportunities to “socialize” with other children. I don’t think they’re isolated or unable to play with other children or any of that!

I think the idea of homeschooling is that you desire to *control *their environment. That’s an individual parenting decision based on what works best for your family, and I totally respect that!

However, my interpretation of “socialization” is not what I described above… that’s “socializing” (I know, I making up terms here, but just work with me )…
I view “socialization” as experiencing society - INCLUDING the good and bad aspects that kids will inevitably be exposed to.

I understand that many parents would have a hard time with this… that’s why homeschooling is a great option for you!

But, from a different parenting perspective - I WANT my kids to have these struggles. I WANT them to come home and have to work through challenging situations. For me, THAT’s part of my motivation for sending my kids to an away-school.
So I just view it as different parenting styles… one where “socialization” (aka, experiencing the good and bad aspects of real society) is part of the education process.

So, while I don’t know how other non-homeschoolers interpret “socialization”… I’m wondering if they may have similar as I do? Not so much from the perspective of spending time with other kids (aka “socializing”), but experiencing those challenges on their own as a matter of parenting style…

Don’t flame me… hope this explains a different point of view and why the questions may be asked in the first place.

Great post!!!

 

[Auburn88]

Jumping off another thread, can someone give me a list of good responses to the objection that homeschooled kids miss out on “socialization”?

I have several negative ones, but please note that some are reserved only for extremely cases. I need some nicer ones.

1. 
   *]And you trust the ***government ***to socialize your children?
   *]Twelve years of training in total obedience to absolute authority under irrational zero-tolerance rules in an age-segregated environment is socialization? Maybe if your destiny is a cubicle on the 34th floor of glass box downtown.
   *]I’m not going to let someone else raise my children.
   *]Ever have an intelligent conversation with a teenager socialized ***your ***way? Yeah me neither.
   *]You mean the rest of the family and the other kids in the neighborhood and other homeschooling families in the area and homeschooling-organized team sports aren’t just as good as 10 hours a day of socialization that you really have no control over?
   *]Were you socializing your kid when you got divorced?
   *]If socialization is so important to you then why don’t you pull Bryttanie out of St Wealthius Academy and send her to Diversity High? Or are you afraid of getting carjacked?

1. 
   My answer is usually, “Yeah, we’d like to socialize them, but they’re just so darned busy with our church, 4-H, scouting, rodeo, Little League, Junior Achievement, Civil Air Patrol, volunteering for charity, going on field trips or playing with the other children in their homeschool group, mentoring government schooled children, and hanging out with their friends that we just can’t find the time.”

 

[Auburn88]

How about, “Umm, I thought kids get ***punished ***for socializing - at least that’s how it was when I was a kid.”

I used to have a teacher who used to tell us all the time, “No socializing on MY TIME”. Of course, my response was usually, “Well, my parents are purchasing your services here so, technically, isn’t it their time?”

Needless to say, I spent a lot of time in detention.

 

[Auburn88]

I find the OP’s lines a very typical homeschool defensive response to socilization issues. The proble with it is that it holds only very small truths, and is very much a generalization if you plan to use that kind of defense one should be prepared for the “creepy homeschoolers who can’t really read but get married at 15 and bake bread and wear home-made dresses and keep house” or “creepy homeschoolers who know academics but can’t cross the street” sort of responses.

I think we* are *that family.

My daughters can all bake, all sew many of their own clothes (as well as clothes for their friends), and my oldest daughter is nineteen and about to get married. And she keeps a mean house.

 

[ThyKingdomCome]

In reply to Em’s post: I think that many, if not most, homeschoolers would agree with you that “socialization” means so much more than just socializing.

In addition to your description of non-family socilzation (lie. what happens at school), I would also add a family-centered example of socialization: when my kids are around each other all day every day, they play A LOT with each other. They also have plenty of conflict. They have opportunities to practice conflict resolution, or dealing with being left out etc… even in our living room. The fact that they will love each other, as well as the fact that they know they are stuck with each other, motivates them to try hard to resolve the conflicts. The fact that I am right in the next room means that if I can help guide them towards a frutiful, healthy way to resolve the conflicts (rather than learning bad conflict resolution habits that may not be caught if an adult isn’t near by). It’s practice now, and really learning to do it the right way, so that someday when it does happen outside of the family, the skills are there (I’m thinking of my own case of a kid who needed more guidance than I got when it came to these issues, and the skills were never really there, - I’m still forcing myself to handle conflict well). Or for that matter, later in life when it happens IN the family (after all, the topics on this forum are proof enough that families are a huge cause of conflict in adults as well). This scenario is not necessarily unique to homeschoolers, but homeschooling does lend itself well to this aspect of socialization. It is one aspect that comes less naturally to buidling-schooled families, that such families have to work harder at (kind of the reverse of what we were talking about with homeschoolers). Em, I don’t mean it as a contradiction to your post, but an addition. You’re right, that there are many aspects of socialization, and parents have to prioritize which ones to focus on, which ones they want their kids to be more immersed in, and which ones they are willing to work harder at themselves. There are also many different ways to get from point A to B. For another example, I’ve seen plenty of school-like behavior at the homeschooling co-op ad open gym periods. Even though I might like to shelter my kids from some of the more difficult/negative/challenging (depending on your perspective) aspects of socialization, that doesn’t mean I’ll be able to do it simply by homeschooling. That stuff shows up everywhere, just sometimes in smaller amounts.

I will say though, that the few people who ask me “what about socialization?” when they hear I homeschool, aren’t so thoughtful, and couldn’t tell me what that word means if I turned it around on them. The questions are usually knee-jerk reactions to a perception that homeschoolers are all social misfit freaks. So I think that’s partly why our answers often center around socializing. That and the fact that even simple socializing can encompass much of the more nuanced aspects of socialization that you’re speaking of, and we often don’t want to go into the issue in that level of detail just because someone feels like asking us.

 

[purplesunshine]

I think we* are *that family.

My daughters can all bake, all sew many of their own clothes (as well as clothes for their friends), and my oldest daughter is nineteen and about to get married. And she keeps a mean house.

If you daughter can’t read…as I said…then it adds into the sterotype. I grew up around a homeschool “orginiztions” that believed girls shouldn’t be educated past third grade in academics but should know how to cook, clean, and keep house. (My remark always was that they should atleast educate girls to grade 8 as the Amish do). They would even give the board of ed bogus “curriculum” and pass phony assessments or fake standardized test scores in believing they were “saving their women”. Compulsory attendance being changed higher and higher from 13 to 15 and then to 18 has helped considerably.

And 19 is young but a decent age for a woman to get married. 15 way too young. And there are culty little HS’s that do that. And that’s where the rumors come from. Just as valid as the OP’s statements about public school.

I know many PS kids who are good cooks and can keep house, too. It’s the acedemic suffering for the sake of 1900 farm life that I don’t believe in. And I’ve seen it with my own eyes.

I still stand by my original post. The OP’s remarks are just inflammatory and stupid.

 

[Truly_Beloved]

In reply to Em’s post: I think that many, if not most, homeschoolers would agree with you that “socialization” means so much more than just socializing.

In addition to your description of non-family socilzation (lie. what happens at school), I would also add a family-centered example of socialization: when my kids are around each other all day every day, they play A LOT with each other. They also have plenty of conflict. They have opportunities to practice conflict resolution, or dealing with being left out etc… even in our living room. The fact that they will love each other, as well as the fact that they know they are stuck with each other, motivates them to try hard to resolve the conflicts. The fact that I am right in the next room means that if I can help guide them towards a frutiful, healthy way to resolve the conflicts (rather than learning bad conflict resolution habits that may not be caught if an adult isn’t near by). It’s practice now, and really learning to do it the right way, so that someday when it does happen outside of the family, the skills are there (I’m thinking of my own case of a kid who needed more guidance than I got when it came to these issues, and the skills were never really there, - I’m still forcing myself to handle conflict well). Or for that matter, later in life when it happens IN the family (after all, the topics on this forum are proof enough that families are a huge cause of conflict in adults as well). This scenario is not necessarily unique to homeschoolers, but homeschooling does lend itself well to this aspect of socialization. It is one aspect that comes less naturally to buidling-schooled families, that such families have to work harder at (kind of the reverse of what we were talking about with homeschoolers). Em, I don’t mean it as a contradiction to your post, but an addition. You’re right, that there are many aspects of socialization, and parents have to prioritize which ones to focus on, which ones they want their kids to be more immersed in, and which ones they are willing to work harder at themselves. There are also many different ways to get from point A to B. For another example, I’ve seen plenty of school-like behavior at the homeschooling co-op ad open gym periods. Even though I might like to shelter my kids from some of the more difficult/negative/challenging (depending on your perspective) aspects of socialization, that doesn’t mean I’ll be able to do it simply by homeschooling. That stuff shows up everywhere, just sometimes in smaller amounts.

I will say though, that the few people who ask me “what about socialization?” when they hear I homeschool, aren’t so thoughtful, and couldn’t tell me what that word means if I turned it around on them. The questions are usually knee-jerk reactions to a perception that homeschoolers are all social misfit freaks. So I think that’s partly why our answers often center around socializing. That and the fact that even simple socializing can encompass much of the more nuanced aspects of socialization that you’re speaking of, and we often don’t want to go into the issue in that level of detail just because someone feels like asking us.

Great stuff right here!!!

 

[nickybr38]

I know how my sister answers these objections.

You see, she and my brother were public schooled while I was homeschooled. They have asserted to me many times that they feel I am more socially adept then they are.

But there are many reasons for this.

A: While they spent their time in school being abused by authority figures, I spent my morning doing schoolwork and my afternoon working with my mother (she managed a store and had me working ‘behind the scenes’ - cleaning, manning the till occassionally, price tagging items, etc, etc, etc)

B: While they were being bullied and abused I was busy protecting those who were being bullied and abused. (It’s a long story but basically whenever I was with kids my own age I’d get angry when they’d start being mean to each other and would act as the ‘adult figure’ in the room and make sure everyone played nice - I was a pretty authoritative figure if no adults were there to supervise).

C: My siblings spent all their time with other children. I spent all my time with adults.

As a homeschooled child I have this opinion of homeschooling; some kids need it, other kids don’t. I needed it and while I didn’t have the best homeschooling experience I know I would have been much worse off in school (I’m a really quirky person - I really didn’t get along well with my kids my age - that didn’t translate into me being unable to get along with adults though. I’m doing just fine as an adult. But adults don’t behave like kids do and I spent the majority of my childhood learning how to be an adult (through the example of the adults I hung out with) rather then learning how to be a child).

We are individual human beings. We are each unique. Some of us thrive in a school environment (those kids who ‘fit in naturally’, jocks, socializers) but there are kids who are different, and they do better with individualized attention, in a home environment.

Just my long two cents.

 

[Auburn88]

If you daughter can’t read…

Very nice. Turn what I meant as a friendly, self-effacing post into an attack.

 

[purplesunshine]

Very nice. Turn what I meant as a friendly, self-effacing post into an attack.

You’re the one who said that my post describes your daughter.

 

[st_lucy]

If you daughter can’t read…as I said…then it adds into the sterotype. I grew up around a homeschool “orginiztions” that believed girls shouldn’t be educated past third grade in academics but should know how to cook, clean, and keep house. (My remark always was that they should atleast educate girls to grade 8 as the Amish do). They would even give the board of ed bogus “curriculum” and pass phony assessments or fake standardized test scores in believing they were “saving their women”. Compulsory attendance being changed higher and higher from 13 to 15 and then to 18 has helped considerably.

And 19 is young but a decent age for a woman to get married. 15 way too young. And there are culty little HS’s that do that. And that’s where the rumors come from. Just as valid as the OP’s statements about public school.

I know many PS kids who are good cooks and can keep house, too. It’s the acedemic suffering for the sake of 1900 farm life that I don’t believe in. And I’ve seen it with my own eyes.

I still stand by my original post. The OP’s remarks are just inflammatory and stupid.

I have seen and been around many many home school kids and I have never heard or seen anything like this. I would think that it would be rather hard to “fake a standardized test score” I mean you cannot even grade it yourself, it goes to the state. And the state has the score.

 

[purplesunshine]

I have many many home school kids and I have never heard or seen anything like this. I would think that it would be rather hard to “fake a standardized test score” I mean you cannot even grade it yourself, it goes to the state. And the state has the score.

You have to turn in a score card. If you’re part of a network that’s WAY easy to do, especally if there’s certified teachers in the group.

I’ve seen many clusters with 50+ families all over OH, NY, PA, NJ and New England. I knew a few hs’ers in college from different states and we were all aware of these people.

 

[gmarie21]

The only response I’ve posed to critics, who are family, when they are concerned because of the “weird” kids they knew who were homeschooled is, “Don’t you remember the weird kids and loners you went to school with. It’s not the schooling style, it’s the personality of the child.” I’m still shocked that my dad criticizes our decision though he has never had a negative thing to say about our dd and thinks she’s relatively nice, respectful, and has a great personality, whereas he’s said many negative things about my nephew and niece about their attitudes and mouths. My nephew and dd are 8 months apart (dd is older, but both are 5). I just don’t get how family, who do see how the children are, can still question the schooling decision.

 

[mom2four]

My kids were homeschooled until this year (my daughter last year) We put them in the local Catholic School and they have no difficulty socializing after being taught at home In fact I get notes sent home about my daughter being too social Lol! When people asked me the “socialization” question. I would just say that my kids knew how to socialize with all age groups, not just their peers. And it’s true! I have yet to see a homeschooled child who lacked social skills.

 

[petitfleur]

My 12y.o DD is a PS kid and socially awkward…well- she is getting better. Wouldnt matter if she was homeschooled or not she is crazy shy (like her mom). We have to remind her to look people in the eye smile and answer questions with more than one word.
But to answer your question- why bother- like others said you shouldnt have to justify your decision. Making some snotty defensive remark makes your socialization skills look lacking.

 

[HouseArrest]

Here’s an interesting angle - around here parents choose either the Catholic K-8 school or the public school - there are very, very few homeschoolers in our area, probably 8-10 students.

Our Catholic school is small. There is one class for each grade, in the past ten years class size has ranged from 8 students to 24 students. Right now classes are at about 12 students. Our town has a population of about 4,000 with a very high percentage of Catholics. The Catholic school has between 10-15% of the student population for K-8.

One of the reasons parents state for not sending their kids to our Catholic school is for, you guessed it! SOCIALIZATION! So exactly how many kids in an area qualify as socialization? Obviously it’s somewhere between 12 and 25.

 

[masondoggy]

Here’s an interesting angle - around here parents choose either the Catholic K-8 school or the public school - there are very, very few homeschoolers in our area, probably 8-10 students.

Our Catholic school is small. There is one class for each grade, in the past ten years class size has ranged from 8 students to 24 students. Right now classes are at about 12 students. Our town has a population of about 4,000 with a very high percentage of Catholics. The Catholic school has between 10-15% of the student population for K-8.

One of the reasons parents state for not sending their kids to our Catholic school is for, you guessed it! SOCIALIZATION! So exactly how many kids in an area qualify as socialization? Obviously it’s somewhere between 12 and 25.

I find it very sad that so many Catholic parents would put “socialization” above a Catholic education for their children. Wow. With these priorities, it’s no wonder kids are growing up and leaving the Church.

 

[leonie]

My experience is that when people ask this question, they are concerned that your kids aren’t spending time with other kids. Or with other kids who aren’t homeschooled. I usually just list our activities, emphasizing the ones that are community based. That usually satisfies them.

“Oh, the kids get out. In addition to their homeschool group activities, they do 4-H, library clubs, youth group, camps, CYO sports, little league, Vacation Bible School, and a few other things.”

Very few people are really interested in a discussion on formation of character.

I freely admit that there are some skills it’s harder to teach the kids in a homeschool. For example, my kids have a harder time being bored. I’ve noticed this with other homeschooled kids. What I mean is that there are times in group activities in which you will be bored while business type things are going on. Or, even when things are just boring. Homeschool kids tend to not know how to sit and zone out. They don’t understand being bored.

I’m not being sarcastic. I do think this is a skill that kids need to learn. To counter this, we make a point to include some group activities that are structured traditionally. So, in 4-H and Sunday School, they have to learn to sit and wait and not cause problems when things are just boring.

I don’t think it’s a vital skill really, but I want my kids to learn it because there will be many occasions in which they will have to be bored–esp. if they go into a career with lots of meetings. ugh. I hate meetings…

 

[Cat]

If the OP or anyone else wants research-based studies about socialization of children, I would suggest googling Drs. Raymond and Dorothy Moore.

These educators have done several studies involving thousands of homeschooled students, and have written several excellent books about homeschooling. They wrote these books back in the 1980s, when homeschooling was still illegal in many states.

Their conclusion is that children are best socialized by spending a great deal of time with their PARENTS and not necessarily with other children.

I followed this approach with my children while they were growing up, and I am happy to report that it worked beautifully.

Check out the Moores. Their homeschooling research is awesome.