Socialized healthcare

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hers is a very simple explanation for our state of healty care. rvery liberal shoukldm take it and post it womewhere he can see i evsry hour of everty day.,… clintonm has been pres for about a year, newy guingrich id speafker of the hlours. pres decides to form an unprecedented bi partisan committee to come up with a health care plan. mre clintonme is in charge. republicans holsd a party caucus gingrich in a monment of extreme candeor that was taped although he didid nt now it. exact words. if this congress and the democrats pass any form of single pay health inasutance. the republicans wont winn control of wither house for at lweast 50 years. any comments/???
 
hers is a very simple explanation for our state of healty care. rvery liberal shoukldm take it and post it womewhere he can see i evsry hour of everty day.,… clintonm has been pres for about a year, newy guingrich id speafker of the hlours. pres decides to form an unprecedented bi partisan committee to come up with a health care plan. mre clintonme is in charge. republicans holsd a party caucus gingrich in a monment of extreme candeor that was taped although he didid nt now it. exact words. if this congress and the democrats pass any form of single pay health inasutance. the republicans wont winn control of wither house for at lweast 50 years. any comments/???
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start with what i believe are the very simple things get them straight in my mind. please do not worry or consider my typingskills (or lacjkk of them). i know how to type with two fingers (just my nervous system doesnt always let me know which two i am goinmg to be using in the next one/hlf second. they will do what they will do. i can spell quite well thank you. i beliebve i hav a more than adequate vocabulart, for instance and to have this verbal skill without learning hiow to spell would be and extraordinary feat. uin addition i ahave spent many years teaching junior high. they ar truly delightful litle people but make a mistake such as a sopelling error in from of them and they go for the jugular

evidently you are willibng to pay for teachers with doctorates. wish i could say the same for the reat of population. you realize that every doctor of physics for example will be needed by nasa and equivilent. of biology, god know how much competiotionn you would have when you try to land him. besides that, everhy doctor of anythuing can get a job teaching at a 4 year institution. i was fortunate enough to be able to do this. the change between teaching high school and teaching ibn college is so enormous that i cant conceive of any doctorat staying in the lower grade. a few perhaps dedicate dbut ther ei s mo way i can describe the differrnce. seconday equals the 3rd or 4 th level of danels inferno comapared to post secondat=ry sitting at the base of ther golden gates.

#747 i tried to ask you what would you dpo with the teachers with whom we have solemn contracts, if youbrought your cai and your doctorl degree requirements. you got very excited and accused me virtually of deliberately trying to starve their kids. read my reply again. do what you have to to keep them. get rid of incompetants, but at the end if some or many decide not to get the doctorate. WHAT WOULD YOU DO. litterl timy tim wont be getting his xmas turkey i believe. we mus keep them or satisfactorily handle then in some other way, a way that wouls be fantastically expensive. we hav a lifetime contract with them,. break the contract and you will be litigating gfrom now until it doesnt make any difference any more. and rightfully so.you dont do things like that in our society especially when so much iof what every institutution does is bases on contract. bewides we need them. there is for good or bad, a trememdous amount of accumulate dknowledge in those people doctorate, or no,. cai or no. they know things. ive already tried to explain that this will inevitably cause a major moral dilema for us. teachers who we cant morally fire on the one hane because you are bringing in you caui abd students (and their coteriies) on the other who deserve the best we can give them. tQplease underrstand thand that there is no answer. whichebver way you go you are right and whichever way yiou go you are wrong. pick the one that causes the least disruption, difficulty to society and apologize to the others. do the best you can for both. but remember if we go to your system a decision must be made.
 
now understanding the next part is for me very important. if you are going to use figures to,illustrate the various good qualities or bad qualities of sometime you must be able to compare. any stst dealing with our educationsnal syatem as for as comparision is concerned mut deal with firures that are erroneous. 40 0r 50 years age you taook a large segment of the populkation who up until that time had been consideered fourth class by society and therefore handled that way by the public. this is tghe agfrican american population. they had just gone through a period of about 350 where nobody gave a damn abouit the formal education. enough said about that part of it. in the 1950s these people decided they had had enough. the got angry and started demanding whatn was their right all the time. but remember that 350 years, you gave them to us and saidtake them, make than forget all about 350 years of ignoring tham, 350 yrare of not educsating them of notm even inmcluding them in a national staistics./ for example they werent considered significant enough to include when trying to figure out things like national unemployment rates. and the list goes on ad infinitu, in the late 60s you gave thenm to us and said in effect, hurry uop and make up for 350 years of this kind of disasteer, we couldnt do it, we cant do it. it is an impossible task especially when you consider thatafter the 60s, after that initial,burst of activity which resulted in the beginning of so many innovation activitied. we did once again what americans are notorious for doing and have been notorious for doing, we decided that Well maybe weve gone to far overbaord. affirmative acytion i diont think so. school building repair well the budget is tight. and on and on. evetry americasn should be required to spend a day visitin an inner city city in a major urban area. some would run away screamiong. and every problem that these schools and these student are facui g is exactly the same proble they were facing 50 yuears ago. this is really a crucial are in ternms of trying to understand ou r education systm,. if you doit understand this you will never come close tro underrstandingf much else about what is happening. one smmall example,. i taught at an inner city school. project housing, tremebndous drop out rate. i monitored a collecollege accaptane test given to all senior and juniors in a huga auditoriu. walking up and down the aisles, perhaps 1`0 per cent sleeping, 20 or 30 per cent drawing initials or desighns on their answer shets by filling in the squares in that shape. this is not their fault. they couldnt car less about sometinng THE TEST that had no relevance for thenm. one little eight grader asked if she sould go to the washroo,. after she left one of the other students said Pregnant again. payse 4th one.we were told over and pver that no mayter how sure we were that there was abuse in the family we were not to file a complaint unless we saw extensive bruising. no bruise no abuse. our band leader had no instruments, ethree days a week he went to school at 6-30 got the van and then made the round to various other schools in th district to get the instrrunmebt they would lend him for the day,vuisitint-g their hom,es. home of a 16 year old 19th grader. pleasant , smiling parent, who clung to each other ll the time i was there, with their smile never leaving their face. two tooms. one bed with a huge hole in the center of the mattress, my student and his 14 year iold sisted slwept on the bed. i dont know where parents slept. home very neat and tidy. shall i go on. please explain to me waht having a doctorate would do in these circumstances,. do you think it mi=ght be true that even though i must have knowledge in the academic part icertainly need some help in the what you call the SNEERINGLY THE EDUCATION PART. this is something that goes onn day after day after day in our educational system. and i ambetting that you and for that matter most of the critics of the system dont have the faintest idea what you are really talking about. remember you in the fiorm of society gave us these children and tese tasks. and then (till now ) you g=havwe completely gforgotten about us,same resources, same yearly battle to get enough money to teacjh. i will give you one more example. one year the saint paul minn school district was unable to get what they neesde to teach , as a reault we had to sign out for every sheet of paper we used every sheet. tell thenm what we were going to use that sheet for,. if you nmade a mistake on th=at sheet you had to turn in at the end of each dy, a list showing what you had tried to use it for and what had happened so that you could no use. it., im sorry jock you dont know what the hell youre talking about. cai and doctorates are not going to be oof much use when trying to figure out how to get these kid to learn whatb they are supposed to lear. im not takling about 3 or 5 kids scattered here and there. im talking oabout 30 or 40 percent of the school population,. i rewtired 17 years ago and my friends tell me that if anything things have gottten worse. no attempt by the population to pass realistic budgets. they have so fallen under the spell of conservative automaticlly grabbing their groins doubling over and grunting whenever they hear the words budget increase. that that avenue of help is gone. bigger classroom in lower grandes, less capable students i n upper. and anon and on. sorry i got a little carried away. i havent had a chance likr this with a ready made place to vent for a long timee, ill tellyou what rally pissses me off. i went into teaching with very high ideals, i believe most dio, it cant be trhe money. in just a couple of years the system had wiped thos iddeals out of me laughting all the time.
 
by the way and i have to get this down before i forget it. so it is outr ioof sequence. assume you go to cai for aythin. you have the maxchine (defebderod all knowlwedge) you have a program which unlike a textbook is not subject to errors you have the process outlined for each stundent, the ins and out iof various pathways as the student is led for satisfactorywork to material which will helpm himif his work is not satisfactory, gently ion clounds of coton bringing him back to where he was mistake, laeding him by the hand along the true pat (something which human teacherc xan only do if they have doctoratesd , getting closer ans closer to the goal of complete mastery of whatever subjest you are woking on. if thuis is all happening whay do you need a doctorate in a subject matter to supervise.some kid from the local junior college who has more thqan a smattering of knowledge about how to fix computers if they get stuck will do nicely thank you. see any flaws,???
 
In response to posts 798, 799, and 800 made by Alfred E. Neuman

All I can say for a guy typing with 2 fingers you seem to get alot done!

:rotfl:
 
i think i should thank you. ive developed a sustem whicjh anybody in the same boat can use. make sur you go over anmd over what yiou are going to type in your mind. take a deep breath, and go as fast a humanly possible from beginning to end before your tow finger and a habnd have a chance to stiffen.,i mean rslly as fast as poosible. fogget about spelling muistakes and punctuation just go. hopefulyy you will make it throguth to the end, if now youlll have to wait an unknown lrngth of time until med icine has a chance to wok, and trhen go through thr whole process again, why not spell scheck… spell check is pretty mucjh a sloe hunt and peck systam, one key at a time very slowly, as is correcting mistakes in body of letter. cant do it. i just hope that at the end of my speed runs there is enough meat in what i hav writtebn so that somebocy is willing to take the time to wade through the sewage and get to the clear seet water on top.
 
sorry one of my finger s just jumped did its own thing and pressed between the keys. like magic what i had written just disapper=ared. but back to whatever.
As I said, your writing is difficult to decypher. Please learn to use a wordprocessor and spell checker.
ill say one more thing you do me and you do you a vast disservice bu evern suggesting thast what i said or implied was that we shopuld no tdo evreythig we can not only for the 30 percwent but fir all. yiou must know that you are dekliverately misquoting my intent, if yiou dont this is like argueing with a brock wll.
Then what did you mean by your comments that substandard teachers must be kept on?
you really should apologize, but since you wer ignorabt enought o suggest it in the first place when you must have known it couldnt be true.m an apology is the last thing i have a right to expect from you.
That is correct – you have no right to expect what I have no duty to give. You pretend to be offended, when I point out that your post would have us believe we must keep incompetent teachers. And, given how poorly schools are doing, that means sacrificing children – not educating them.
one worjd there are aas i implied above, situations whuich yiou wish would never occir, situation where the right thing to do is difficult no matter whuich side you take,. this may be one of them alll i really said about this is that you have to make a choice between retaining that 30 percent and doing everything you can to try and bring the figure doiwn or byou must defy a basic tenet upion wghich our politicalm economic, social, even religious system is built upon, that once you give a person your word, either by a written or a silen contract that has to be what you do. anything else is chaos.
Are you implying that once hired a teacher can never be fired? No matter how bad they are?
think about it. will eberybody benefit equally by maintaing this principal
You’re darn right not everyone will benefit. Incompetent teachers will benefit, and the children will suffer. Their lives will be ruined. They will leave school unable to read and write, unable to get and hold a job, and with no future but welfare and drugs.
of course not,.,. is it still worth keeping, and then trying to keep the collateral damage to a minimu, think about it. i really resent yo9ur implication.
How is it worth keeping the people who failed the children on board, and continuing to sacrifice the children at such a rate.

If anyone has a right to resent anything, I resent the failure of the Public School system which has blighted the lives of so many generations of children.
 
last i dont know how you would do it but just for the heck of it try to calculate the monetary cost of installing your program with urgency. its beyond xssquared and third powersif i remember righ you made a bid deal about errors in textbooks. can you think of one earthly reason whjay you wouldnt have the same or greater number of werrors in cai. humans are humans tcomputer geniues have been known to make maistakes. if i remember right many edition of windows have had tio,be reacalled .
you are very genderous with the lives of the teachers whose jobs you are replacing. please raread my letter when i discussm thuis,. you seem to b e implying that i said lets do everythignin our power to retain these teachers , compteant or incompetant. i never even came close to saying that. what i said or asked is whats going to happen to them after you implement cai. you forget about this contract. every teacher who is dimissed for anyhtinless than motrals or lack of ability (they cant do the job). will and should sue.thismon top of purchasing the cai machines at essentially the same ttimes. do you have any idea what a cost the would entail. now you may believe that the cost ids worth it, but you are forgetting that cai uis the answer in only some of the cases. i have been part of cai virtually since its inception, early= on workshops, symposiums, classes at portland maine, where they have a nationally known progam., i have written a cai program minus the computer (had frames same principles as cai only done by hand for introduction to statistics for teachers. i truly know somethijng about what we are taljking about.

i notice you evidently decided to stay away froim the letter where i descruibed 3 or 4 cases studies of individuals where cai wouldnt be any use in. you have to multiply that times a million squared to get some idea of what educaation anf teachers are facing today. please comment on th aspect of it.
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 go back to laying off teachers,  as i suggested this is not an either or situation.  if you introduce cai (a goal which as i have suggested maynbe worthy)  you are going to run ito all kinds of problesms.  you are forced to make a decision between two alternatives, each of which will result in veryu very difficult times.
you seem to have made your chois, and perhaps io ahve to, tasking cai inot the educational system gradually, working it inot those areas where we are able to demonstrate that it is most effective at first andfthe gradally expanding its ares. allowing the iintelligence and wisdon of the teachers accumuted knowledge time to use test and improve the machinea. etc. this is the ionly way to do it. and above all when you come to places where the computer just cant do as well as humans stop trying… it seem you on the other hand are so facinated with the process that you want it tomorrow. you say f—the teachers and the contract, full speed ahead. thism is evidently something that is relatively new to you. whenyou have gone through the process of yusing it for over 50 years as i have perhaps you might realiZe the limitaiions both os xcai and the system you want to uase to install it in our educational systyem,. please notice that i havent backed off from the idea that some teachers and some children will get hurt. during the process. what ive done is made it a sklow gradual process instead of having it done tomorrow. i wish there wazs some way it could be done without that happening but it cant. lessen it to the greatest degree possible but if the goal is a worthy one that perhaps what you do to rach it is also. how many things in human history are there where these same conflicts have had to be resolved, always with somebody getting hurt. i dont know why its true but it is that god or whatever cfcreated us ansd society that way. we do it constantly. think about the term collateral damage. horrible term. necessary to accomplish worthwhile end. well youll have to decid that.
 
about fort benning im afraid i dont believe you.
I really don’t care what you believe.

But the Army contracts with colleges and universities to establish adjunct campuses on military bases. When I was at Benning, Georgia State University had a thriving and rigorous program that went through the Specialist Degree in Education and provided Master’s degrees in several other disciplines.

The Army Command and General Staff College at Fort Leavenworth (of which I am a graduate) has a similar program, but limited to military subjects.
 
and i fa-t in your general direction. ((said with a french accent from th top of a fort s wall. i was soooooooooo looking forward to having intelligne t discussions about variou ways of not telling the truth of more specifiacally in thei case, how to not ell the truth, than imply that of course you did tell the truth by tlking all th around a subject without mentioning ig. i notice that you did not, in your reply, say that what you said was the truth. i get the impression reading your letters, that you feel that if yiou twell us often enough about what kind of fantastic trainig you, (after all Fort Bennig WOW) that we will believe eveerything else you say ao

fort benning really i am soooooooo impressed,ut abything. anytime etc.
 
and i fa-t in your general direction. ((said with a french accent from th top of a fort s wall. i was soooooooooo looking forward to having intelligne t discussions about variou ways of not telling the truth of more specifiacally in thei case, how to not ell the truth, than imply that of course you did tell the truth by tlking all th around a subject without mentioning ig. i notice that you did not, in your reply, say that what you said was the truth. i get the impression reading your letters, that you feel that if yiou twell us often enough about what kind of fantastic trainig you, (after all Fort Bennig WOW) that we will believe eveerything else you say ao

fort benning really i am soooooooo impressed,ut abything. anytime etc.
How predictable – another melt-down into scatology and insults from someone who has run out of logic and facts.
 
if you really dont care what a person says you could easily just say “i dont care what you say” and then as im sure you are aware therer is a punctuation mark known as aperiod, has a definite purpose. ends it then you go to your computer board and press whatever key is responsible for makinfg me disdappear from your life forever. instean you give me a ahort (for which i am thankful) discussion of your very impressive credential with emphasis on fort benning. im sure efreud would have something to say about that, but hes dead.
attended abiout 16 or 17 elementary schools in chicago, basically runninf=g frommy parents bill collectors. had a little proble with the police, aso went into the air force. at age 17 . trained extensivedly in such detailed activities such as marching in the rain, (abnd in the sunshine) hiow to turn right when your ti insisted upon it, and left. and varius othe movements. (very difficult and believe me lackland afb in san antonio did not pull any punched. went to weright patterson afb in ohio then volunteered like an *** for korea. loaded bombs on b 26s. etc etc etc. made it this far. i figure as long as were discussing part of our pedigree , but i couldgo on, i will be mericful. you might want to reread that part above where i tstalk about periods and disappearing.
 
Personal attacks are an admission one has lost the argument – whatever one’s argument is in this case.:confused:
 
Where’s a moderator at when you need one? LOL I’m thinkin *this *thread has gone :whacky:

ALFREDENEUMAN =Alfred E. Neuman

dccomics.com/mad/ to learn more about Alfred E. Neuman.

We’re being played! But don’t believe me read his posts! LOL.

One of Aflred E. Neumans posts-
think i should thank you. ive developed a sustem whicjh anybody in the same boat can use. make sur you go over anmd over what yiou are going to type in your mind. take a deep breath, and go as fast a humanly possible from beginning to end before your tow finger and a habnd have a chance to stiffen.,i mean rslly as fast as poosible. fogget about spelling muistakes and punctuation just go. hopefulyy you will make it throguth to the end, if now youlll have to wait an unknown lrngth of time until med icine has a chance to wok, and trhen go through thr whole process again, why not spell scheck… spell check is pretty mucjh a sloe hunt and peck systam, one key at a time very slowly, as is correcting mistakes in body of letter. cant do it. i just hope that at the end of my speed runs there is enough meat in what i hav writtebn so that somebocy is willing to take the time to wade through the sewage and get to the clear seet water on top.
And after trying to read it, Vern posted-
As I said, your writing is difficult to decypher. Please learn to use a wordprocessor and spell checker.
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Alfred E. Neuman of Mad Magazine Fame.
 
Here, children don’t start school at university enterance level. Children in primary and secondary schools are taught by teachers with degrees in Education, not science, math, and so on.

And I’ll bet it’s the same in your country – or does your law require teachers in secondary schools to have PHDs in the subject field?

.
To teach beyond a certain level - students in the last 2 years of secondary school - you need at the very least a Bachelors in the subject. Most teachers teaching 17-18 year olds have a Masters. Mine did. I suspect that it’s a similiar story in the U.S. You wouldn’t have a teacher teaching physics to students in their final year unless he had a degree in it.

.
 
To teach beyond a certain level - students in the last 2 years of secondary school - you need at the very least a Bachelors in the subject.
At least a bachelors? !?!:eek:

All teachers in the US are required to have degrees. But a mere bachelors degree hardly makes one a subject matter expert. Especially when the degree is in Education, and the subject matter is Math, Chemistry, and so on.
Most teachers teaching 17-18 year olds have a Masters. Mine did. I suspect that it’s a similiar story in the U.S. You wouldn’t have a teacher teaching physics to students in their final year unless he had a degree in it.

.
In fact, you would – the teacher would have a degree in Education, not in Physics. By law, a man with a degree in Physics would not be qualified to teach unless he had gone back to college and taken the necessary Education courses.
 
In fact, you would – the teacher would have a degree in Education, not in Physics. By law, a man with a degree in Physics would not be qualified to teach unless he had gone back to college and taken the necessary Education courses.
Hmm…perhaps things have changed a little since I was in High School (Class of '83 - Monta Vista HS, Cupertino, CA). My Advanced Placement Chemistry teacher had his BA in…wait for it…Photography (well, at least chemicals were used in developing back then) and his extra year for his teaching degree which is required in California.

Of course, he almost killed us all by ignoring the lab instructions (“Do this under a fume hood”) whereby most of the class created Sulphur Dioxide at the lab tables (my lab partner and I ignored the teacher and did our experiment under the fume hood). We did evacuate the building and no one was hurt, thankfully.
 
Hmm…perhaps things have changed a little since I was in High School (Class of '83 - Monta Vista HS, Cupertino, CA). My Advanced Placement Chemistry teacher had his BA in…wait for it…Photography (well, at least chemicals were used in developing back then) and his extra year for his teaching degree which is required in California.

Of course, he almost killed us all by ignoring the lab instructions (“Do this under a fume hood”) whereby most of the class created Sulphur Dioxide at the lab tables (my lab partner and I ignored the teacher and did our experiment under the fume hood). We did evacuate the building and no one was hurt, thankfully.
I posted some of the errors found in textbooks – such as how Sir Isaac Newton dropped weights off the leaning tower of Pisa. If teachers had real degrees in their fields, how could such errors persist?
 
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