Socialized Medicine

[sadie2723]

I am continuing debate concerning socialized medicine, and in particular some claims made by Michael Moore. Please feel free to comment.

The main thing to understand here is that the claim of Moore is without merit. So he went to Cuba and asked to see their socialized medical facilities. It is interesting that some Cuban friends of mine who swam the 90 miles to Florida disputed his claim. Moore takes you to Castro’s personal health facility where they treat a few common people for the first time ever. My friends told me of the real story of medical care in Cuba. They normally go to facilities that have medical equipment from the 1950’s, prior to the revolution. The equipment is outdated, and they get treatment after extreme waiting periods for appointments…6-9 months. So why does Moore not show this? Well, the simple reason is that it does not further his propaganda.

You see, that is what propaganda is people. You show a highly distorted viewpoint to drive home your point without giving any other viewpoint.

The problem is his point as I see it is that the Cubans in Florida that actually lived in the system hated it. They came to America because…well…it is better.

And, for that matter, let’s look at the European system of health care. Extreme long waiting periods with government deciding what drugs you get and what drugs you do not. I have a friend in England whose mother had cancer and was not responding to standard treatments. She DID respond to a new, very expensive, experimental drug which was reducing the size of her tumor greatly. The government decided that they would no longer pay for the drug, and due to the socialized system, would not allow her to pay for it privately. She died waiting for them to change their minds after nine months of appeals. This is what happens when you let government make your decisions for you concerning your personal health.

 

[Pondero]

I would have to see the movie “Sicko” before commenting on it, and as for Cuba, I really don’t know.

At one time I lived in England and I had no complaints about the medical treatment I received. It was free or socialized as you like to call it. I think “socialized” is being used as a pejorative adjective, which is a pity. In England itself the system is called National Health, or it was when I lived there. Most people liked it.

Now they have a system comprising both National Health and a privatized system, which is most unfair if you can’t afford the premiums.

 

[Della]

This is what happens when you let government make your decisions for you concerning your personal health.

Exactly. It helps none who really need it and does not touch those who can afford private care. SM is total bunk!

 

[sadie2723]

Here is the thing. I like private health care. I do. I think it rocks. My premiums are fine, and I like the care that I get. I do not like government run stuff, and I do not like paying taxes for dead beats that decide that they want to suck off the system. I think that this, combined with the negativity I have encountered with people living in socialized systems, makes me want to say no to it.

 

[Pondero]

Here is the thing. I like private health care. I do. I think it rocks. My premiums are fine, and I like the care that I get. I do not like government run stuff, and I do not like paying taxes for dead beats that decide that they want to suck off the system. I think that this, combined with the negativity I have encountered with people living in socialized systems, makes me want to say no to it.

It is difficult to find a dead-beat who wants to suck off the health system in a government run system like ours. They are all genuinely ill, or they wouldn’t be in doctor’s waiting rooms It is boring waiting to see a doctor, there are better things to do with one’s life

 

[sadie2723]

It is difficult to find a dead-beat who wants to suck off the health system in a government run system like ours. They are all genuinely ill, or they wouldn’t be in doctor’s waiting rooms It is boring waiting to see a doctor, there are better things to do with one’s life

I can take you down the street and show you a hospital waiting room full of people seeking drugs for pleasure use. It happens every day. Worse, the doctors hand them out, as if they do not they face malpractice. Further, the denial of treatment to the indigent, even drug seekers, can cause government to deny the hospital the ability to file for medicare and medicaid reimbursement.

So, yes, there are a ton of people who are dead beats who suck off the system. Go to your local hospital and ask a few doctors about it.

 

[mary_bobo]

Exactly. It helps none who really need it and does not touch those who can afford private care. SM is total bunk!

I wonder if the age of those responding to this post, as well as others, with regard to socialized medicine, has anything to do with their perspective on it? Does anyone think that someone who has never had a serious illness and been on socialized medicine would rather not have been? Do you think there are just some people who are willing to accept whatever is given to them without questioning if there is not a better treatment, or a better way? I don’t know about the rest of you, but I don’t want the same entity (government) that has failed in so many other things to be running any health care system I might be required to use.

 

[JimG]

I’m guessing that physicians in Cuba don’t have to pay for malpractice insurance.

 

[Indyann]

I can take you down the street and show you a hospital waiting room full of people seeking drugs for pleasure use. It happens every day. Worse, the doctors hand them out, as if they do not they face malpractice. Further, the denial of treatment to the indigent, even drug seekers, can cause government to deny the hospital the ability to file for medicare and medicaid reimbursement.

So, yes, there are a ton of people who are dead beats who suck off the system. Go to your local hospital and ask a few doctors about it.

Brad, hate to disagree with a fellow Hoosier, but ER docs and nurses are pretty good at weeding out the drug seekers. Sure, some get by the system, no system is without flaws.

 

[goofyjim]

I am certainly not for socialized medicine but there has to be some health coverage for the disabled who are there through no fault of their own. To deny them health care is just plain ridiculous ina country such as ours. They should make it easier by passing legislation that when a disabled person returns to work the insurer must cover a preexisting condition. Otherwise they may never be able to return to work because it would put them in the poorhouse anyway. If you are going to be poor either way why work?

 

[sadie2723]

Brad, hate to disagree with a fellow Hoosier, but ER docs and nurses are pretty good at weeding out the drug seekers. Sure, some get by the system, no system is without flaws.

Point taken, but I got to hang out with a friend of mine a few weeks ago who was an ER doc. That night she was on what they call the “pain shift”. She was in charge of all the people coming in with nondescript pain in the ER. Standard policy for the hospital is to give them a six-pack and send them on their way…a six pack consists of six tablets of Lortab. The hospital does this, and it is official policy, as if they fail to treat the person they can be sued (and they have been) for malpractice.

Brad

 

[emily47017]

A Commonwealth Fund study of six highly industrialized countries, the U.S., and five nations with national health systems, Britain, Germany, Australia, New Zealand, and Canada, found waiting times were worse in the U.S. than in all the other countries except Canada.

pnhp.org/news/2007/july/waiting_times_for_ca.php

that study they’ve referenced:
commonwealthfund.org/publications/publications_show.htm?doc_id=482678

 

[JimG]

I know a specialist who does volunteer medical work at a foreign mission in third world countries for a few weeks each year.

A friend of his once asked him why he didn’t do similar work in the U.S., as there are many poor people here who could also use his services at no cost. He replied, “because in the third world country, no one will sue me.”

Litigation and settlement costs are built into our healthcare system. Michael Moore doesn’t address this issue in his movie.

 

[Pondero]

I can take you down the street and show you a hospital waiting room full of people seeking drugs for pleasure use. It happens every day. Worse, the doctors hand them out, as if they do not they face malpractice. Further, the denial of treatment to the indigent, even drug seekers, can cause government to deny the hospital the ability to file for medicare and medicaid reimbursement.

So, yes, there are a ton of people who are dead beats who suck off the system. Go to your local hospital and ask a few doctors about it.

I don’t think it is quite the same in Canada. I have never heard of such a thing.

 

[Lucania]

I don’t know about the rest of you, but I don’t want the same entity (government) that has failed in so many other things to be running any health care system I might be required to use.

I agree. That is in my opinion, the best argument against national/socialized medicine. It would be a horrific disaster.

 

[Dandelion_Wine]

They normally go to facilities that have medical equipment from the 1950’s, prior to the revolution. The equipment is outdated, …
You see, that is what propaganda is people. You show a highly distorted viewpoint to drive home your point without giving any other viewpoint.

I haven’t nor plan to see Moore’s movie. But if you’re going to be fair and look at all the angles sadie you should at least acknowledge that socialized medicine doesn’t mean outdated 1950s equipment. You’re doing exactly what you’re accusing Moore of doing!

 

[Cat]

The people who “run” health care should be health care professionals, not politicians, lawyers, insurance people, business people, movie stars, judges, or anyone else.

Unless you actually work in health care and know what’s going on, you have NO CLUE how it works, and therefore, you have no business trying to manage it.

We won’t let an unlicensed hairdresser (legally) do hair. So why would we allowed untrained, unlicensed people to dictate how health care should be managed?

A case in point is the notorious HIPAA. This started out a good idea and has some good points, but has now become a disaster and a big toilet sucking money out of people. In my hospital, in a twisted attempt to comply with HIPAA and protect patient privacy, they started calling Codes WITHOUT announcing the room number over the intercom. Imagine it–the crash cart doesn’t even know what floor to go to, and when they do get a clue (from someone shouting at them), they race up and down the hall desperately looking for the room with the patient! This would be funny on Scrubs. In real life, it was tragic.

This ridiculous and dangerous policy lasted ONE WEEK! Then the Chief of Staff put out an announcement that basically said, “Heck with HIPAA! Privacy, schmivacy, we’re going to announce the room numbers over the loud speaker! And if you want to sue us for invasion of privacy, FINE! It’s better than being sued for letting some unfortunate Code patient die because we couldn’t locate his freakin’ room!”

 

[sadie2723]

I haven’t nor plan to see Moore’s movie. But if you’re going to be fair and look at all the angles sadie you should at least acknowledge that socialized medicine doesn’t mean outdated 1950s equipment. You’re doing exactly what you’re accusing Moore of doing!

I do agree with that. I was only making the statement that Moore’s look at the Cuban system is distorted. I was not making that statement about the overall substance of socialized health care.

 

[emily47017]

The people who “run” health care should be health care professionals, not politicians, lawyers, insurance people, business people, movie stars, judges, or anyone else.

i totally agree with you, and this is why i support a single-payer system rather than a socialized system. it’s also why i think the current system is broken – bureaurocrats at private insurance companies, when they have the power to approve or deny a particular service, are in essence practicing medicine on a patient they have never met.

 

[sadie2723]

Hey, here is an idea. If you want cheep health care, deregulate it. Eliminate the FDA and put the testing burden on the drug companies…which will produce drugs that are safer, faster, and cheaper. Then set some serious malpractice caps to lower the premiums for malpractice insurance. Those two things alone would make a huge difference to the cost of health care operation. When that cost comes down, so does the cost you and I pay, so does the amount we pay in premiums.

If you want it cheaper, make it more simple…not more complicated. Basic economic principals.