Society needs to fix this problem

[Elizabeth502]

To all those who think that the promiscuity genie can’t be put back in the bottle, check this out:

Judaism’s Sexual Revolution: Why Judaism Rejected Homosexuality

catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0003.html

We’ve been here before people. Nothing that is happening today is new. The pendulum has simply swung back.

I can’t agree more with that. And it is in fact historically accurate that the mores of societies swing like a pendulum. There have been bawdy eras and regions, and straight-laced ones in succession after one another. And that quote about Judaism going against the prevailing cultures of the time is quite apt. (I was expressly thinking of that example myself. Glad you beat me to it.)

 

[Andromedus]

Shouldn’t society as a whole attack the teen pregnancy problem at the source - the influence? Shouldn’t we go against all the sex-related movies and music that poison the children’s minds? If the kids don’t the ‘the talk’ from their parents, where are they going to turn to find information? Their environment - the internet, music, television shows, movies, etc. Even look at their clothes. EVERYTHING IS SHOWING. There are even Catholic-raised children that wear highly inappropriate clothing. Anyone agree? Sorry if this turned into a mini rant.

Hmmm society needs to do something… sounds Socialist

 

[Michaeljc4]

I am a teacher in public schools, and have been for 12 years. I now also have two little girls of my own. Children/teens dressing inappropriately? Viewing inappropriate media? Acting in ways that, even a generation ago, would have been considered unacceptable? All of these things are the responsibility of parents.

There are many, many factors that explain why our society has shifted in the way that it has. People work longer hours, and have longer commutes. People watch more television (and now, surf the internet). More single-parenting, which makes it extraordinarily hard to raise children, especially if the single parent–more often than not the mom–is working. The media is increasingly coarse, and increasingly ubiquitous. Church attendance is way down.

So here is my advice to you: YOU, personally, make sure your kids are being raised correctly. If you don’t have any kids in this age group, find the closest one you can–a niece, a nephew, a grandchild, a godson or goddaughter, even a neighbor, and do what you can to help that child learn what he or she needs to know. It is all too easy to become discouraged and shake our heads, “Oh, the world, the world…it’s all so awful!” That may be so. What is also so is that you, personally, can make your little corner of the world better.

Do it!

 

[teenphilo1]

Nope. I remember when I was a teen in the 1990s, and most of my siblings are teens today… That was and still is the thinking of a majority of teenagers. Teenphilo1, you’re in the minority. (but that is a good thing.)

-Chris

As we have seen, a loud minority is just as powerful, if not more so, than a quiet majority.

 

[Regular_Atheist]

Nope. I remember when I was a teen in the 1990s, and most of my siblings are teens today… That was and still is the thinking of a majority of teenagers. Teenphilo1, you’re in the minority. (but that is a good thing.)

-Chris

It’s them damn hormones.

 

[edwest2]

Nah, mate.

You give a 17 year old a condom and his mind turns to sex.

You give a 17 year old anything? His mind turns to sex.

It won’t work. Unless it somehow becomes really socially taboo like it used to be, you’re going to have a job on that one, mate.

I find your statements false and offensive. They propagate the following lie, which only increased after the Sex without love Revolution: “Nobody can control themselves!” Baloney.

Who decides when you have sex? The Church? The State? No - you do.

Peace,
Ed

 

[interestedman]

Shouldn’t society as a whole attack the teen pregnancy problem at the source - the influence? Shouldn’t we go against all the sex-related movies and music that poison the children’s minds? If the kids don’t the ‘the talk’ from their parents, where are they going to turn to find information? Their environment - the internet, music, television shows, movies, etc. Even look at their clothes. EVERYTHING IS SHOWING. There are even Catholic-raised children that wear highly inappropriate clothing. Anyone agree? Sorry if this turned into a mini rant.

So what is your plan? Complete censorship?

 

[interestedman]

I find your statements false and offensive. They propagate the following lie, which only increased after the Sex without love Revolution: “Nobody can control themselves!” Baloney.

Who decides when you have sex? The Church? The State? No - you do.

Peace,
Ed

A person can control themselves. That is for certain. But why would they? Sex feels good and teens aren’t the best at thinking about long term consequences. Also, if they do get pregnant many know they can just get an abortion. Of course it is possible to control yourself, but you need to give them a reason to do so.

 

[edwest2]

A person can control themselves. That is for certain. But why would they? Sex feels good and teens aren’t the best at thinking about long term consequences. Also, if they do get pregnant many know they can just get an abortion. Of course it is possible to control yourself, but you need to give them a reason to do so.

One of the quickest roads to poverty is single motherhood. Abortion kills a human being.

Peace,
Ed

 

[JimG]

I am surprised (who am I kidding, no I’m not) that no one has considered the possibility of a teenage grassroots movement encouraging holiness. We as teens might be down, but we’re not out.

This is the most encouraging thing I’ve heard yet. A lot of young people have been ill-served by adults who expect them to have sex, who expect them to be promiscuous, who tell them they certainly can have no self-control, and then complain about a national 44% out of wedlock pregnancy rate.

Sometimes the only thing left is to take the counter-revolution into your own hands.

 

[jeannetherese]

Too late to change back.

I wonder if the increasing inability for antibiotics to resolve STD’s may encourage our government encourage a decrease in promiscuity? For an introduction to this problem, see the link below:
npr.org/templates/transcript/transcript.php?storyId=158464908
It might be helpful if schools, the media, and state institutions joined parents in efforts to change the culture.

 

[edwest2]

This is the most encouraging thing I’ve heard yet. A lot of young people have been ill-served by adults who expect them to have sex, who expect them to be promiscuous, who tell them they certainly can have no self-control, and then complain about a national 44% out of wedlock pregnancy rate.

Sometimes the only thing left is to take the counter-revolution into your own hands.

Makers of birth control pills, condoms, IUDs, the morning after pill, spermicidal foam and diaphragms need to move product. There’s no money in self-control. So they have movies and TV shows where two people have “just sex,” like going to the bathroom. Love? Commitment? Who needs it? Lots of orgasms are being marketed, not having sex in a respected, married, monogomous way. Again, there’s no money in that either.

I was born in the mid-1950s and none of the above were available. The average number of kids in my neighborhood? Two.

Peace,
Ed

 

[JimG]

Makers of birth control pills, condoms, IUDs, the morning after pill, spermicidal foam and diaphragms need to move product. There’s no money in self-control. So they have movies and TV shows where two people have “just sex,” like going to the bathroom. Love? Commitment? Who needs it? Lots of orgasms are being marketed, not having sex in a respected, married, monogomous way. Again, there’s no money in that either.

I was born in the mid-1950s and none of the above were available. The average number of kids in my neighborhood? Two.

Peace,
Ed

What particularly angers me is that several generations of children have essentially been sold to the sex marketers, while everyone says, “oh, they’re all going to do it anyway, they’re just hormonal teenagers.”

 

[SgtSchultz]

All of these things are the responsibility of parents.

…]

So here is my advice to you: YOU, personally, make sure your kids are being raised correctly.

…]

also so is that you, personally, can make your little corner of the world better.

You hit the nail on the head, Michael. So many parents these days completely forgo any responsibility at all for the rearing of their children. They expect school teachers to do everything for them. Indeed, many parents gang-up against school teachers and administrators in issues of discipline. They then wonder, ten years later, why little Johnny can’t do sums or little Annie doesn’t respect her superiors.

A person can control themselves. That is for certain. But why would they?

Sex feels good and teens aren’t the best at thinking about long term consequences. Also, if they do get pregnant many know they can just get an abortion. Of course it is possible to control yourself, but you need to give them a reason to do so.

They would if there were consequences. Social stigmas, parentally-administered punishments, etc. If some of the shame and stigma were brought back, this would straighten people up. Teens need to know there are consequences. If it weren’t so easy to get an abortion, this might serve as a disincentive, but the kids need to know there will be hell to pay if they fornicate. The boys need to know this too. Any boy getting a girl pregnant needs to be forced to raise the kid. That’ll make a man out of him real quickly, if both families get behind him.

This is the most encouraging thing I’ve heard yet. A lot of young people have been ill-served by adults who expect them to have sex, who expect them to be promiscuous, who tell them they certainly can have no self-control, and then complain about a national 44% out of wedlock pregnancy rate.

Sometimes the only thing left is to take the counter-revolution into your own hands.

 

[Elizabeth502]

They would if there were consequences. Social stigmas, parentally-administered punishments, etc. If some of the shame and stigma were brought back, this would straighten people up. Teens need to know there are consequences. If it weren’t so easy to get an abortion, this might serve as a disincentive, but the kids need to know there will be hell to pay if they fornicate. The boys need to know this too. Any boy getting a girl pregnant needs to be forced to raise the kid. That’ll make a man out of him real quickly, if both families get behind him.

Yep. I have said this several times on this forum. It was social and family stigmas that made people very careful in previous generations, especially if their futures were at stake. For perspective on the culture of that time, see A Place in the Sun, with Montgomery Clift & Elizabeth Taylor. Pretty accurate. Uppermost as a theme in the movie is the protagonist’s career-consciousness and how his impregnating a girl, if discovered, could end a promising future for him. Said girl embodies, and voices often, the prevailing cultural norm that the right and expected action is for him to marry her and/or provide for her financially.

There are many movies from that time period, earlier, and slightly later, which echo the theme that sexual irresponsiblity (i.e., unmarried or adulterous) which results in pregnancy can spell ruin for a man’s and a woman’s societal standing, threatening potential futures (personal and professional) for either/both.

The horror that all these situations presented was the public exposure of the pregnancy. There was maybe a hope of privacy, but ultimately no expectation of full privacy, and society considered such events their privilege to know. And private lives had lasting, usually permanent, repercussions.

I’ve argued on other threads for a return to this lack of privacy, and also for a requirement that the man/boy be made to be fully financially responsible. Watch men’s behavior change if that were to happen. It is completely morally unsupportable that there are zero consequences for them to fornicate their hearts and bodies out right now. Sure, women make it easy for them, too. But if there were a second, more public, layer, they would stay as far away as possible.

And there is no justification for parents leaving teenagers of the opposite sex unsupervised. I mean, they no longer have to even wait for some dance or other evening date, like in the “old days.” They just hook up after school in a home environment.

 

[SgtSchultz]

I’ve argued on other threads for a return to this lack of privacy, and also for a requirement that the man/boy be made to be fully financially responsible. Watch men’s behavior change if that were to happen. It is completely morally unsupportable that there are zero consequences for them to fornicate their hearts and bodies out right now. Sure, women make it easy for them, too. But if there were a second, more public, layer, they would stay as far away as possible.

especially the bolded part

How do we do this, though? It is possible. Japan and Korea are still places where divorce, out of wedlock births, shacking-up, etc. are heavily frowned upon. So it is possible to have a modern, hi-tech society that doesn’t suffer from the ill effects of the Sexual Revolution the way we do.

 

[Elizabeth502]

especially the bolded part

How do we do this, though? It is possible. Japan and Korea are still places where divorce, out of wedlock births, shacking-up, etc. are heavily frowned upon. So it is possible to have a modern, hi-tech society that doesn’t suffer from the ill effects of the Sexual Revolution the way we do.

Unfortunately, Roe governs, federally; therefore the “right of privacy” decided in Roe (which was really seized, says Scalia, from Griswold, inapporpriately) could be hijacked for any State policy, if challenged. But if people began to see a different paradigm working in a corner of the country (before that reached a federal challenge), and in a way that improved the economy and reduced social ills, other States might want to follow.

The current situation of early pregnancies and the dysfunctional, immature relationships which attend them stall educations (and goals), produce unemployment, increase poverty, and increase gov’t subsidies to address the poverty.

A couple of people have mentioned parenting. Here’s the trouble with that: the largest groups engaging in fornication, and using abortions as an additional contraceptive, are most often receiving inadequate parenting because they have themselves been born into single-parent famliles, or, they are first generation immigrants of disunified and displaced families (often because of illegal immigration). IOW, similar young women do not behave that way in their native country, but do here. It doesn’t seem to be strictly a matter of rapid enculturation but to be based somewhat on the absence of an extended family which does, in their native country, provide a moral framework.

And I do believe that radical culture shock has a negative effect. When Eastern European families immigrated in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, they came from cultures that were eras apart from the U.S., not just geographies apart. It was both psychologically and morally traumatic for the newcomers, often. Abandonmnet of spouses was a common occurrence. (See the movie Hester Street.) Many Eastern European men from village environments arrived in U.S. cities and experienced the equivalent, morally, of a nervous breakdown. It was overwhelming, the pleasures, options, and recreation awaiting them. Many of them lost their moral center, took American mistresses, and became unrecognizable from their origins. While the contrasts today are not always as extreme, we can’t assume that countries which import our technology have also imported our mores, whole-hog.

This is one of the many reasons why I do not favor reckless support of illegal immigration. By definition, they are coming mostly without that extended family to provide moral & psychological support during the transition to a new culture.

 

[interestedman]

They would if there were consequences. Social stigmas, parentally-administered punishments, etc. If some of the shame and stigma were brought back, this would straighten people up. Teens need to know there are consequences. If it weren’t so easy to get an abortion, this might serve as a disincentive, but the kids need to know there will be hell to pay if they fornicate. The boys need to know this too. Any boy getting a girl pregnant needs to be forced to raise the kid. That’ll make a man out of him real quickly, if both families get behind him.

Shaming people isn’t going to accomplish anything. You can’t shame a person into being a good parent.

 

[JimG]

Shaming people isn’t going to accomplish anything. You can’t shame a person into being a good parent.

A sense of shame is necessary for anyone to be able to overcome evil. No shame means no restraint. We see the results of no restraint everywhere.

 

[thunderboom]

Nah, mate.

You give a 17 year old a condom and his mind turns to sex.

You give a 17 year old anything? His mind turns to sex.

It won’t work. Unless it somehow becomes really socially taboo like it used to be, you’re going to have a job on that one, mate.

This. I’ll tell you from personal experience (I was raised the right way), even in the best environment a teen’s hormones are raging and sex is on his mind. It’s natural…I think you just have to teach a child right and pray that God gives them the grace to stay pure. If there’s a huge problem in the whole culture, we have to address it in small amounts by teaching our kids the right way to live.