Society of Jesus: The Jesuits

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colorful said:
Personally, if you are interested in FSSP, etc, I really don’t understand why you would also be interested in the Jesuits. Of course, there are many wonderful, holy, Jesuit. But on the whole, the order has a liberal reputation. /quote]

What really impressed on WYD 2005 in Germany was meeting US Jesuits and first traditional Latin Mass ever in my life.
As a participant of Jesuits-led iniciative called Magis I found really astonishing seeing young US Jesuits priests (Marquette University) in Adoration tent where they celebrated Eucharist and made Eucharist Adorations very devoutly. Later on I talked to one of them and he exlained me they are new,orthodox generation of Jesuits.
On the other hand,traditional Mass really struck my heart and I fell in love with it.I cannot still fully evaluate what a great treasure it is and give tahnks to Holy Father for his Motu Proprio.

To sum up, I wish there would be more Jesuits who are orthodox and also love Traditional Mass. What makes me wondering is how much different Jesuits are over the world.
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To sum up, I wish there would be more Jesuits who are orthodox and also love Traditional Mass. What makes me wondering is how much different Jesuits are over the world.
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If the Holy Spirit leads me, I will join the Jesuits and do my best to promote orthodoxy and traditional Catholic liturgy. However, I find the formation of a Jesuit to be a little daunting; I can’t believe how much study is involved! I’m suprised they’re not the best theologians in the world.
 
Contribute to the Jesuits???

That is a funny one.

The Jesuits will not accept you no matter how low number of vocations if they cannot absolutely mold you into their way of thought.

In fact, all orders are like that and it should be that way.

But uh that is because they are supposed to give you the mentality of their founder.

But with the Jesuits???

I was not allowed to study in one of their schools just because they knew they could not change my outlook and that was when I was a kid. You will not change much. I say this with all respect of course. But that is the truth.
In fact they will probably tell this to you in your face.

Only grace can move mountains.
 
The OP asked me for some specifics based on my first post. I haven’t ignored your question and I did attempt an response but on reflection I just don’t think I am well informed enough to give the answers you are looking for, so sorry for the lack of reply. I’m also not certain about what “traditional” means, as it’s quite a complex issue, so I’m not able at this stage in my understanding to provide an answer. But all the best in your discernment.
 
Here is another joke.

A Franciscan and Jesuit were walking in a forest, and the Jesuit noticed that there was an echo.

Thinking to play a prank on his companion, the Jesuit shouted out in Latin:
“Quod est Franciscanorum regula?” (What is the rule of the Franciscans?)
And the echo replied: “…gula, gula, gula.” (Gluttony, gluttony, gluttony)

In a heartbeat the Franciscan shouted out: “Fuitne Judas Jesuita?” (Was Judas a Jesuit?)
And the echo replied: “…ita, ita, ita.” (Yes, yes, yes.)
 
Pro_Domina said:
Here is another joke.
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A Franciscan and Jesuit were debating which order was the greatest. So, they decided to ask for a sign from God. This is what they received falling down from heaven:
Code: 
My sons,

Please stop bickering about such trivial matters,

GOD, O.P.
😃

My favorite:

Two men considering a religious vocation were having a conversation. "What is similar about the Jesuit and Dominican Orders? " the one asked.

The second replied, “Well, they were both founded by Spaniards – St. Dominic for the Dominicans, and St. Ignatius of Loyola for the Jesuits. They were also both founded to combat heresy – the Dominicans to fight the Albigensians, and the Jesuits to fight the Protestants.”

“What is different about the Jesuit and Dominican Orders?”

“Met any Albigensians lately?”

:rotfl:
 
I have met both liberal and orthodox Jesuits though not many of each. There is lilttle doubt that the order was was in crisis after Vatican II. Father Malachi Martin’s book The Jesuits (published in 1988) gives an insider’s account of the order. It was generally well-received, and, to over-simplify it, suggests that the order was in rebellion against the pope. I am not aware of any updated analysis of the state of the order since this book was published two decades ago. Anyone considering the Jesuits should certainly read this book and look for more up-to-date accounts of the order. You can check out the reviews at Amazon.Com.
 
Father Malachi Martin’s book The Jesuits (published in 1988) gives an insider’s account of the order. It was generally well-received, and, to over-simplify it, suggests that the order was in rebellion against the pope.
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Does Martin present this book as fact, or a combination of fact and fiction - something he likes to call “faction?”

I am wary of anything written by Martin because he was at odds with the Church and tended to indulge and promote conspiracy theories.

Would you mind sharing some of the things he states in the book? I’m not dismissing the book, I just want to know if it is factual and reliable. Thanks.
 
colorful said:
Let me share some more of my experiences-

Please be aware that there are good and bad- orthodox and liberal- in every order. I have a deep respect for many Jesuits- such as Cardinal Dulles. However, Dulles is a rare gem in the Society these days.

As I have stated earlier, I have only met one Jesuit who wears his clerics daily. I have studied under many Jesuit professors (for philosophy, theology, psychology) and although I knew they were priests, I can recall certain students who didn’t even know that these professors were priests until I mentioned it! One Jesuit theology professor of mine talked about his disdain for Natural Law teaching- especially regarding Humanae Vitae. Another one talked how he saw nothing wrong with sex outside of marriage. This is what they are telling college kids!

Jesuit’s are notorious for being very liberal towards the Church’s sexual teachings, abortion, etc. They are also well known for Liberation theology, anti-war, etc. In addition, the Society has tended to have a lukewarn relationship with the Vatican. I see the anomosity with one of my own priests. For example, this Jesuit was very mad when he noticed the new Vatican flag in our chapel. That same priest has also refused to do the Latin mass- even though several students and faculty members have requested it! (Thankfully we have found a pius Jesuit who has volunteered to say it for us)

Personally, if you are interested in FSSP, etc, I really don’t understand why you would also be interested in the Jesuits. Of course, there are many wonderful, holy, Jesuit. But on the whole, the order has a liberal reputation. To answer your questions about formation- it takes 12 years to reach final vows as a Jesuit. Yes, the study is free. You are a novice for 2 years before you take first vows. then you will be sent somewhere (anywhere around the world) to study theology and philosophy. If addition to poverty, chastity, and obedience, Jesuits also take a fourth vow- Mission. They will go where they are sent. ( I know one man from NYC who is being sent to Africa to complete his philosophy degree. Needless to say, he was surprised)

God bless you in your discernment! I can answer anymore questions- I have known many Jesuit for many years!
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My thoughts, exactly. Especially: “…if you are interested in FSSP, etc, I really don’t understand why you would also be interested in the Jesuits.”

With the Jesuits and many large orders, you are rolling the dice because many provinces are very liberal, whereas some are not.

With FSSP and other traditional congregations, they are wholly orthodox because they are much smaller and orthodoxy is their focus.
 
With FSSP and other traditional congregations, they are wholly orthodox because they are much smaller and orthodoxy is their focus.
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This is my only reason against joining one of these Orders, if I decide to become a Priest. I attend the Tridentine Mass primarily but I feel that my priestly ministry would be very limited if I joined one of these Orders. I would only be able to minister in small parishes to people who have a particular devotion to the Gregorian Rite Mass. Joining a more mainstream Order would enable me to reach far more people.

If I joined the Dominicans, I would have the chance to move to many different Monasteries throughout my country. If I joined the FSSP for example, I wouldn’t be able to do this. There appears to be a far greater variety in the larger Orders.
 
FSSP are great and they share Ignatian spirituality as their priests conduct Ignatian Exercises.However FSSP are not a religious order,rather a society of apostolic life.
Similar to Jesuits with love to Tridentine Mass are Servi Jesu et Marie based in Austria.Their primary goal is mission to youth scout movement.
I know some young Jesuits,not yet priests who are quite interested in Tridentine Mass but in general Jesuits do not apply too much to the old Mass.I pray they would and grow in orthodoxy!
 
Dempsey1919 said:
Does Martin present this book as fact, or a combination of fact and fiction - something he likes to call “faction?”

I am wary of anything written by Martin because he was at odds with the Church and tended to indulge and promote conspiracy theories.

Would you mind sharing some of the things he states in the book? I’m not dismissing the book, I just want to know if it is factual and reliable. Thanks.
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Here is a link to Amazon.com and some readers’ comments which I can’t improve on.

amazon.com/Jesuits-Malachi-Martin/dp/067165716X

and a link to his home page (which is still maintained after his death) starharbor.com/fr_martin/index1.html

and, for what it is worth, a Wikipedia article on MM:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malachi_Martin

I think he is quite orthodox. He was released from his Jesuit vows so that he would no longer be bound to them by obedience.**The Jesuits **is well-indexed and supported by notes (though they are not copious). IMO, it is factual, very well-written and aimed at a wide audience, and not surprisingly, judgemental. I wouldn’t call it a “faction.”
 
Dempsey1919 said:
This is my only reason against joining one of these Orders, if I decide to become a Priest. I attend the Tridentine Mass primarily but I feel that my priestly ministry would be very limited if I joined one of these Orders. I would only be able to minister in small parishes to people who have a particular devotion to the Gregorian Rite Mass. Joining a more mainstream Order would enable me to reach far more people.

If I joined the Dominicans, I would have the chance to move to many different Monasteries throughout my country. If I joined the FSSP for example, I wouldn’t be able to do this. There appears to be a far greater variety in the larger Orders.
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If you are looking at the larger orders then, it’s very important that you study not just the order as a whole but the various provinces. One province (of whichever large order) may be very different than another province of the same order. Provinces tend to have their own characters.
 
Dempsey1919 said:
I am saddened to hear this. Could you please share some examples of how the Jesuits are liberal?

I don’t want you to attack the Society in any way. I’m just interested in hearing about your experiences because I’m seriously thinking of joining.
I would suggest you contact a Jesuit Community near you… one good way to get to know a communities spirituality is to get to know men from their religious tradition.
However, as a somewhat traditionalist and conservative Catholic, I wouldn’t want to be involved in any Order that promoted dissident teachings.
There is a difference between being liberal and being dissent. Jesuits are known to be a bit more liberal perhaps, however that being said… I know many fine Jesuits who follow the teaching of the Church. I was also educated at Loyola Marymount University in Los Angeles with a minor in Religious Studies. During my four years there and my volunteer time I found them to fully support Rome. Again the Jesuits might or might not be a good fit for you… again why not visit various communities… Jesuit or Dominican or Franciscan Or Benedictine etc to get to know them? Also remember that even within each order a particular community may be more traditional or less so once you find the way of life and spirituality, rule you like??? then look at various communities.

Blessings on your search. Oh and once again a good spiritual director might help you in your search ]
Thanks
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BeeSweet said:
A Franciscan and Jesuit were debating which order was the greatest. So, they decided to ask for a sign from God. This is what they received falling down from heaven:
Code: 
My sons,

Please stop bickering about such trivial matters,

GOD, O.P.
😃

My favorite:

Two men considering a religious vocation were having a conversation. "What is similar about the Jesuit and Dominican Orders? " the one asked.

The second replied, “Well, they were both founded by Spaniards – St. Dominic for the Dominicans, and St. Ignatius of Loyola for the Jesuits. They were also both founded to combat heresy – the Dominicans to fight the Albigensians, and the Jesuits to fight the Protestants.”

“What is different about the Jesuit and Dominican Orders?”

“Met any Albigensians lately?”

:rotfl:
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–
–one reason I would never become a Dominican.

There is blood on their hands.
 
Dempsey1919 said:
This is my only reason against joining one of these Orders, if I decide to become a Priest. I attend the Tridentine Mass primarily but I feel that my priestly ministry would be very limited if I joined one of these Orders. I would only be able to minister in small parishes to people who have a particular devotion to the Gregorian Rite Mass. Joining a more mainstream Order would enable me to reach far more people.

If I joined the Dominicans, I would have the chance to move to many different Monasteries throughout my country. If I joined the FSSP for example, I wouldn’t be able to do this. There appears to be a far greater variety in the larger Orders.
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I would meet and talk to your nearest Jesuits in the UK. Express your background, interests and why you are interested them and other large orders, saying what you’ve told us.

Express your concerns about what you’ve heard about the Jesuits. Be upfront about yourself and your impressions of them.

This is the only way that you’re going to find out what you need to know.

My impression re the Society of Jesus now is that they are very bright missionaries who work mainly thru education. They have never prayed the office or said a lot of devotions because they were missionaries. They have a strong tradition of education, study, debate and reason. They are urban,‘worldly’ and reach out. They don’t wear a habit or rosary; they are not penitential. They often–usually–name their colleges and universities after the town they are in (Boston College) or the last name of their founders and saints(Loyola, Gonzaga) or a big donor (Fordham). Not University of Mary, or Rosary or Ave Maria. Not a lot of ‘externals’.

I think that by meeting and talking to a bunch of them, you would know immediately whether the order was suited to you, and that they would know likewise. This is the only way.
 
Well said!

Reviewing some of the later posts,which have so many awesome ideas, the following thoughts came to my mind.

In researching which order to join, I found it helpful to visit with many different orders to get to know a bit of their way of life.
*
Each order can give you some suggested reading on their history, as well as what kind of ministries they are engaged in.

Some things to consider might be:
[Here make your own list of issues or questions or concerns]
  1. The rule or way of life [does it fit your prayer life and personality?]
  2. Do they live in community?
  3. Do they recite the divine office?
  4. Is their priestly apostolate in parish’s? or schools or missions? etc
[My personal impression is that if you tend to more traditional worship the Jesuits might not be the best of matches.tho their spirituality can be quite a learning experience,in fact many retreat programs use the Spiritual Exercises of St Iganatius]

My daily prayers for all those in the discernment process in whatever stage.
Blessings of Peace and Good!*
 
**They always dress reverently, sometimes in those black dresses, **

"Those black dresses" are called cassocks.
 
Dempsey1919 said:
Thanks.

I’m disapointed that the Jesuits have lost their original Orthodoxy. I don’t think they’re the right Order for me. I’ll keep looking…
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You might want to meet some actual Jesuits, instead of basing your impressions on rumor, don’t you think?

Seriously, though, the Jesuits are an order of very scholarly men. There are going to be some out on the fringes, but there are also some who are very, very traditional in their outlook.
Lepanto said:
If you are looking at the larger orders then, it’s very important that you study not just the order as a whole but the various provinces. One province (of whichever large order) may be very different than another province of the same order. Provinces tend to have their own characters.
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This is an extremely good point!

One thing I would say: the Jesuits are not an order for those looking for quick ordination. The time between entering and ordination to the priesthood is something like 11 years. Oh, and that is time spent in study. A prospective Jesuit cannot be afraid of serious intellectual work.

The Jesuits and the Dominicans do lots of different things; contact the province you are in to see if they think that they envision the priest you feel called to be would fit in well with their charism and and the commitments of their province.

If you just want to do parish work, consider becoming a diocesan priest.
 
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