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bitterhope
Guest
Yep. Many college students today are doing the same work that previous generations did in high school. Schools now teach for the test rather than actually teach students needed skills. I know there are exceptions to this, but very few adults learned to think for themselves or solve their own problems, and that includes both in the life skills and academic areas. Too many immature followers and not enough capable leaders being produced any more. Education is big business in the US
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EasterJoy
Guest
That’s because there is this vast sea of people trying to get into Harvard who are all really good. It is like picking the winner of the Kentucky Derby! There are a few wunderkinds that come along that everyone wants and Harvard will pay to have, but for the most part, Harvard could choose any of those ten you’re talking about, and they’d all have about the same chances of doing well there. Some will not get in to Harvard who are in many respects better than others who do get in, because Harvard does not want a homogenous student body. If they did that, they’d shortchange all those homogenous “top” students who went there to be challenged by interesting people who aren’t all just like them!
The thing is, those other 9 of your ten do not simply slink off into obscurity. They go wherever they go and they excel. They get out of college, and if they have been paying attention to the transition from the invented world of school to the real world they’re going into, they excel there, too. Sometimes, it is the “B” students of Harvard who have some intangible that does not show up on written exams who go out and make loads of money and become major donors.
Harvard is a fantastic opportunity, do not get me wrong, but it is not the only opportunity fit for a fantastic student. The ones who have the substance behind the grades, they’ll do great in many places. Part of the substance behind the grades, though, is that if you’re going to fail to study for an exam because you had something better to do, it better have really been better, and not just easier. That’s the take-home message.
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phil_at_dayboro
Guest
This is correct,
Grades are very important, one thing that high grades does show,
is not necessarily that your intelligent , but rather that you can & have worked hard to be where you are… Your dedicated, you have ambition , you can set a goal and focus yourself
To achieve that goal…,
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But..............
To fail, is nothing to be ashamed of,,,,, there are an awful lot of Millionaires that failed
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Cat
Guest
It’s reality. It doesn’t matter what we think of it. We have to work with what the real world demands of us, agree with it or not.
For years, there has been talk of de-valuing grades, and indeed, many colleges do look for more than just good grades, but for community involvement, volunteerism, innovation, creativity, compassionate outreach, etc.
But at this point in history, grades are still a major factor in achieving goals after high school. If two equally-qualified high school graduates apply for an opportunity, and one has a 92 and the other has a 93–the opportunity will go to the 93.
What all of us should do is our BEST in every endeavor, be it schoolwork or raising children or praying.
If we do our BEST, that’s all we can do.
If you don’t do your best, then if you are turned down for an opportunity, you will always wonder whether you would have received your opportunity if you had just worked a little harder and done your best.
You don’t want that to happen. You don’t want to miss out on getting into a school or getting a job and then wonder if it was because of your grades. It will haunt you all your life.
I realize that those who have obsessive-compulsive tendencies will have a hard time with “doing your best.” They’re not sure of the boundaries. E.g., do you stay up all night to study, or do you go to bed and get some sleep before the Big Exam? Do you write a 50 page thesis instead of a 25 page thesis? Do you hire a music teacher to give you private lessons so you have a better chance of making it into the highest-level choir?
I’m not sure how to deal with that. Sorry.
All I know is that like it or not, grades rule. Sorry.
For years, there has been talk of de-valuing grades, and indeed, many colleges do look for more than just good grades, but for community involvement, volunteerism, innovation, creativity, compassionate outreach, etc.
But at this point in history, grades are still a major factor in achieving goals after high school. If two equally-qualified high school graduates apply for an opportunity, and one has a 92 and the other has a 93–the opportunity will go to the 93.
What all of us should do is our BEST in every endeavor, be it schoolwork or raising children or praying.
If we do our BEST, that’s all we can do.
If you don’t do your best, then if you are turned down for an opportunity, you will always wonder whether you would have received your opportunity if you had just worked a little harder and done your best.
You don’t want that to happen. You don’t want to miss out on getting into a school or getting a job and then wonder if it was because of your grades. It will haunt you all your life.
I realize that those who have obsessive-compulsive tendencies will have a hard time with “doing your best.” They’re not sure of the boundaries. E.g., do you stay up all night to study, or do you go to bed and get some sleep before the Big Exam? Do you write a 50 page thesis instead of a 25 page thesis? Do you hire a music teacher to give you private lessons so you have a better chance of making it into the highest-level choir?
I’m not sure how to deal with that. Sorry.
All I know is that like it or not, grades rule. Sorry.
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PaulinVA
Guest
College is a place where former A students teach mostly B students to work for C students.
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EasterJoy
Guest
There is nothing magic about getting a C. Most C students do not wind up leading anybody or running anything. The C students who excel may not excel in school, but they definitely do work to earn an A rating somewhere else.
Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard with his parents’ blessings, but not because he was a C student. He dropped out because he was his own best professor. The hours he put in to learn how computers worked on his own dwarfed anything that a teacher in a formal school setting could ever demand without being utterly abusive. The Beatles, likewise, learned their craft by keeping a punishing performance schedule before they were “discovered.” Rare is the person whose success drops in his or her lap. Rarer still is the person who remains successful over a long period of time without a good deal of prudence and hard work (and of those, the vast majority have someone else working hard and being prudent on their behalf).
People do succeed without the benefit of grades or degrees, but they do it either by finding a mentor outside of school or else by being self-taught and self-driven. They may learn how to smooze in politics, they may learn how to close a deal, but they choose an area of competition where they can excel. That is what I meant by “if you’re going to fail to study for an exam because you had something better to do, it better have really been better, and not just easier.”
IOW, if the OP is looking for an argument that a balanced life is worth the price of a slight drop in grades, even in terms of career success, the evidence is there for the argument. If the OP is looking for an excuse to quit working so hard at school so he can do nothing in particular, not so much. (Well, some amount of “nothing in particular” is a good thing. Even in seminary, they force them to take an hour each day for enjoyable recreation, whether they want to or not. It is good for the soul to “come away and rest” on a regular basis.)
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Avocadomom
Guest
I’ll tell you one thing… The last thing you want is a “C” nurse caring for you in the hospital.
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PaulinVA
Guest
Google “C students run the world”
As an example:
jobs.aol.com/articles/2010/11/16/c-students-more-successful-than-a-students/
As an example:
jobs.aol.com/articles/2010/11/16/c-students-more-successful-than-a-students/
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The success of 'C' students happens mostly because they were learning about the world and how to manage it when the 'A' students were tethered to their books. 'C' students competed for class office, put in plenty of time at the college newspaper, started advocacy organizations, worked part time, fell in love too often, and engaged in other activities.
All that provided direct insight into what makes people tick, how the world really operates, and strategies for recovering from a defeat.
Former chief executive officer of [Home Depot](http://aol.careerbuilder.com/jobs/company/home+depot?siteid=cbaol95news) and head of Cererbus Operating and Advisory Company [Robert Nardelli](http://www.referenceforbusiness.com/biography/M-R/Nardelli-Robert-L-1948.html) was a so-so student. Where he put his energy was in making his mark in organizations such as the Boy Scouts. After he wasn't appointed chief executive officer of GE, he sure nailed down other big jobs.
President John F. Kennedy was no brain, but his golden gut told him to surround himself with those who were (note: they worked for him). And you know how lackluster a student President George W. Bush had been. One-term president Jimmy Carter was the brain.
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EasterJoy
Guest
John Kennedy succeeded because of his golden gut? Maybe his dad’s golden brick road stretching out before him had just a little to do with it? Do we really think that George W. Bush would have been elected president without George HW Bush’s rolladex? Let’s just eliminate role models who made the wise choice of being born the child of parents with wealth, power, and ambition. They could not be more irrelevant to the 99%.
Being a person whose intelligence is put to things other than school is very different than being a person of intelligence who shrinks from developing himself and putting himself out into the world. I have known and taught a lot of “so-so” students that anyone could see were going to succeed. They were smart and dedicated–just not to school! Suffice it to say that the vast majority of my so-so peers and so-so students did not fit into this category. Most C students are not particularly hard-working, not particularly perceptive, and not particularly ambitious. Neither can it be assumed that a C student is turning in so-so grades because they “competed for class office, put in plenty of time at the college newspaper, started advocacy organizations, worked part time, fell in love too often, and engaged in other activities.” Well, maybe the love thing, but other than that, the chances are that they put too much time in on ESPN, gossiping, and their X-Boxes. These are not the C students who are going to be running the world in 20 years, let’s just say that.
What kills A students is a fear of not getting an A. If they get into a situation where they can’t be perfect, an A student is vulnerable to freezing up or staying away. The C student knows that failure never killed anybody. That is an advantage, yes, because real life usually does not give out As, the exams have no syllabus, and the date and the location of the test is almost never announced beforehand. A C student can cope with that. An A student may not like the lay of that land, preferring a situation that is more controlled. He or she may also be used to being the best in everything, every time. The only way to accomplish that is for your “everything” to have a very confined scope. That is also not the way to become extraordinary.
Besides, the OP is an A student, not a C student. Simply letting his grades slip will not make him into the uber-achiever C student. It will make him an under-achieving A student. The idea, instead, is to look at the rules of the game by which C students achieve success.
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preb34
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This part of your post Easterjoy caught my eye:
I know of a boy in my class who matches the exact description that you specified in your quote (except for the falling in love part). He is one of the most laziest students I know. And he’s obsessed with sports.
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Allegra
Guest
There’s a big difference between last generation’s c-student and this generation’s c-student. Back then, C meant “average”. Now it means, “You totally deserve to fail this class but I’m giving you a break because I know you mom will just call the principal and override me anyway and I don’t want to deal with the drama.”
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EasterJoy
Guest
I only have 2 minutes, but wanted to toss this into the discussion:
What if what the OP is really asking is whether career success ought to be treated as the Pearl of Great Price, rather than a means of seeking the path to God? IOW, how should the importance of the following passage of Scripture be made obvious in the operation of a Catholic college prep high school?
"Do not worry and say, ‘What are we to eat?’ or ‘What are we to drink?’ or ‘What are we to wear?’ All these things the pagans seek. Your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. But seek first the kingdom (of God) and his righteousness, and all these things will be given you besides."* Matt 6:31-33
What if what the OP is really asking is whether career success ought to be treated as the Pearl of Great Price, rather than a means of seeking the path to God? IOW, how should the importance of the following passage of Scripture be made obvious in the operation of a Catholic college prep high school?
"Do not worry and say, ‘What are we to eat?’ or ‘What are we to drink?’ or ‘What are we to wear?’ All these things the pagans seek. Your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. But seek first the kingdom (of God) and his righteousness, and all these things will be given you besides."* Matt 6:31-33
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preb34
Guest
I’m not entirely sure what you mean by the statement in bold. Do you mean that I’m asking on whether career success should be treated as an obstacle to God rather than a means?
If so, I would personally take a neutral outlook on that. I think a person’s career could be either detrimental or helpful to one’s path to God, depending on the career and what they make of it.
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ProVobis
Guest
It’s good if you want to measure students against each other, I suppose. But once you make it to high school, your grade school grades are unimportant, and so on.
I don’t think I ever had a boss ask me about my college grades in any subject. In fact, I had two physics jobs out of college, without even being asked if I had taken certain courses. Compatibility with other workers seemed to be more important.
I don’t think I ever had a boss ask me about my college grades in any subject. In fact, I had two physics jobs out of college, without even being asked if I had taken certain courses. Compatibility with other workers seemed to be more important.
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
You mean past high school right?
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EasterJoy
Guest
I’m just wondering if this is not what the OP had in mind with his question: Why are you so worried about my grades and yet do not seem to show concern about whether my various pursuits are a help or an obstacle in my relationship with God?
Now, his parents may be watching his relationship with God and say nothing and don’t interfere because he is handling his spiritual life in a far more mature way than he handles the temptation to academic sloth. I just wonder if he fails to see this from his position, since by not trying to fix what is running like a top, they are “saying nothing” and “doing nothing.”
My question is also whether this is a sentiment that students at college preparatory high schools might ask themselves fairly frequently. Or not? Should the concern that they take their spiritual vocation into account when they choose a career path be made unmistakable at a Catholic high school? Does that happen?
Do Catholic college prep high schools emphasize the need to serve God totally in everything, including making grades and choosing a career?
What does everyone think?
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Hoosier_Daddy
Guest
All nurses are “C” students or they would be doctors…
JUST KIDDING, PUT AWAY THE PITCHFORKS!
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ProVobis
Guest
Meant once you make it into high school, your grade school scores become unimportant. Once you make it into college, forget the high school scores. Once you make it to grad school, forget the college scores. Is that what you were asking?
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EasterJoy
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You’ve got it all wrong. The A students become doctors and nurses. The C students drop out of chemistry, change to a business major, and then become hospital administrators…hence proving the maxim that A and B students will eventually work for C students!All nurses are “C” students or they would be doctors…
JUST KIDDING, PUT AWAY THE PITCHFORKS!
(Yes, I am just kidding, too!
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