Sola Fide – what does fide mean anyway?

[Quaestor]

Faith can mean different things to different people…

To the Atheist it is believing without evidence
To many Protestants it is an intellectual assent
To other it is putting you trust in something

So, a lot has to do with how you define faith.

As an aside the dispensationalists do not accept Hebrews as applying to the gentile Church Age. Ruckman and other hold that Hebrews is written for Jews passing through the Tribulation.

 

[jcm2017]

II. THE THEOLOGICAL VIRTUES

1812 The human virtues are rooted in the theological virtues, which adapt man’s faculties for participation in the divine nature:76 for the theological virtues relate directly to God. They dispose Christians to live in a relationship with the Holy Trinity. They have the One and Triune God for their origin, motive, and object.

Faith is not a thing in a material sense, it is the gift of a relationship with God. It originates with God as the CCC says. In this relationship we respond to God with our whole trust and assent.
As with anything that has God as it’s origin, it is tough to pin down with a definition (as it should be if we are going to be honest).

 

[De_Maria]

The Roman People did not understand the word fide as we take it to mean faith. Fide actually means something close to doing your duty by the gods, loyalty to the gens and therefore the god or fidelity.

But does that matter? You’re looking at the meaning of the word in the phrase, “sola fide”. Which is shorthand for a soteriological doctrine made up by Martin Luther. So, what did he mean by “fide”?

 

[phil19034]

Fide does not mean faith, it is as best a very bad approximation of the word. Latin does not have a word which is a good approximation for the English word faith. Accredo might be better word which might translate better to mean faith. Faith as we know it today, or the English understanding of the word faith, at least among Protestants would be treated as superstition by the Romans. The Roman People did not understand the word fide as we take it to mean faith. Fide actually means something close to doing your duty by the gods, loyalty to the gens and therefore the god or fidelity.

With all due respect, why does it matter?

Sola Fide is known to mean Faith Alone and that’s what it is used for. After all, the official Church language is Ecclesiastical Latin, and not necessarily the same Latin that was used in ancient Rome.

The Church also still creates new Lain words and phrases when needed. For example, all Dioceses have a Latin name, even if the city name did not exist when Latin died as a vernacular language.

I don’t think this is a subject worth arguing about.

God Bless

 

[Quaestor]

So what does it matter??? Words have meaning or do I throw a bunch of words at you and I would leave it to you to interpret in any way you wish? Of course not. So asking if it matters is silly at best.

So let me get this correct, when the vulgate was written, you will pretend for me that the Vulgate was written in Ecclesiastical Latin??? It was written in common Latin of the period. So one could argue where fide occurs in the bible is not the fide the Church uses? Is this your argument… I don’t want to think that you might be silly enough to go down that road because there are many perils.

If the subject is not worth arguing about (who said this was an argument anyway), why your 2 cents? Just asking question… Obviously it does matter.

The issue here is that the word faith has differing connotations to different segments of the population. What fide means in Latin has a different meaning from what many mean by faith today. Given the quote from Luther (I have not verified it) above it appears that his idea of what faith meant was much closer what fide was meant to be.

It is also worth investigating how his idea of what he meant by faith changed over time as he got more set in his ways.

 

[Quaestor]

Going back to Luther and checking

Er fragt auch nicht ob gute Werke zu tun sind sondern ehe man fragt hat er sie getan und ist immer im Tun. Wer aber nicht solche Werke tut der ist ein glaubloser Mensch tappt und sieht um sich nach dem Glauben und guten Werken und weiß weder, was Glaube noch gute Werke sind doch wäscht und schwätzt viele Worte vom Glauben und guten Werken.

Glaube ist eine lebendige erwogene Zuversicht auf Gottes Gnade so gewiss, dass er tausend Mal drüber stürbe. Und solche Zuversicht und Erkenntnis göttlicher Gnade macht fröhlich trotzig und freudig gegen Gott und alle Kreaturen welches der heilige Geist tut im Glauben. Daher wird jedermann ohne Zwang willig und freudig, Gutes zu tun jedermann zu dienen allerlei zu leiden Gott zu Liebe und zu Lob der ihm solche Gnade erzeigt hat. Also dass unmöglich ist Werk vom Glauben scheiden Ja genauso unmöglich wie Brennen und Leuchten vom Feuer geschieden werden mag. Darum siehe dich vor vor deinen eigenen falschen Gedanken und unnützen Schwätzern die vom Glauben und guten Werken klug sein wollen zu urteilen und sind die größten Narren. Bitte Gott dass er den Glauben in dir wirke sonst bleibst du wohl ewiglich ohne Glauben du dichtest und tust was du willst oder kannst.

Here the word Gkaube is akin to belief … so believing. However he does go on the say

Also dass unmöglich ist Werk vom Glauben scheiden Ja genauso unmöglich wie Brennen und Leuchten vom Feuer geschieden werden mag.

Which further validates that he uses glaube to mean belief. But does came back and say one cannot divorce belief [faith] from works.

 

[phil19034]

Fair enough

But my uneducated guess is that the phrase “sola fide” is sort of idiomatic.

I think we need to first define what the Church means by “sola fide”

 

[Quaestor]

It is not for the Church to define, it is for those who claim that doctrine to define it. Luther is not the best persons to ask that question from obviously as he was everywhere on the board dependant on his mood swings. Individual protestants will have their own ideas.

But Calvin meant strictly belief to support his soteriology and the nature of man. He was very logical and systematic.

Just add somewhat
When the Church speaks of fide it is closer to mean fide as the Roman pople meant it… a faith/belief/culture which is lived out in ordinary life.