Sola Fide, 500 Years Later – How Wide is the Divide?

[Randy_Carson]

Sola Fide, 500 Years Later – How Wide is the Divide?
Felix Whelan • September 9, AD2016
catholicstand.com/sola-fide-500-years-later/

“…my take on the now 500 year old Protestant Reformation shouldn’t surprise anybody. It seems to me that if Jesus Himself founded the Roman Catholic Church (which He did; see Matthew 16:18), and sent the Holy Spirit to guide His Church in all truth (which He did; see John 16:13), then any Christian community not in union with the Roman Catholic Church must at some point have drawn one or more desperately wrong conclusions concerning Christ’s teaching, and followed those errors into theological darkness. If they weren’t in error, they would be in union with Rome. It’s that simple.”

More here: catholicstand.com/sola-fide-500-years-later/

 

[Wannano]

Sola Fide, 500 Years Later – How Wide is the Divide?
Felix Whelan • September 9, AD2016
catholicstand.com/sola-fide-500-years-later/

“…my take on the now 500 year old Protestant Reformation shouldn’t surprise anybody. It seems to me that if Jesus Himself founded the Roman Catholic Church (which He did; see Matthew 16:18), and sent the Holy Spirit to guide His Church in all truth (which He did; see John 16:13), then any Christian community not in union with the Roman Catholic Church must at some point have drawn one or more desperately wrong conclusions concerning Christ’s teaching, and followed those errors into theological darkness. If they weren’t in error, they would be in union with Rome. It’s that simple.”

More here: catholicstand.com/sola-fide-500-years-later/

I don’t think you will surprise anyone here, we have felt your attitude before. From my vantage point in your “theological darkness” I look over at you smugly standing in the circle you have drawn around yourself. It gives me no desire to join you.

 

[saellis]

I don’t think the original poster meant to be smug bur rather to clearly and concisely state a personal opinion. My personal opinion is that the divide is as great as ever but need not be.

 

[LutheranScholar]

The divide is quite wide indeed. Doctrinal barriers are just as firm as they were back in the early sixteenth century and the cost of any sort of reunification would mean that one body or another would have to sacrifice some very firmly and seriously held beliefs. While the Thirty Years War saw some serious devastation as a result of certain kings and groups trying to impose conformity on those who were out of fellowship with them, today the methods of inducing conformity don’t normally include the sword ( or the musket), but propaganda and psychological pressure.

That might save some valuable property from being laid waste in a physical sense, which is good, and there are no Church/ State partnerships which would result in Inquisitorial tribunals followed by state sanctioned executions, but the tolls for the emotional tactics are fairly high, all the same. Everyone has their own conditions by which they might consent to reunification, but those conditions invariably state that the other churches must conform to the standards and doctrine of this or that church that laid out those conditions.

Church membership isn’t simply a matter of seeing who has the better youth program, or whose preacher can more completely captivate an audience. One’s very faith is nurtured and fed by the community one fellowships with, as the Holy Spirit works through visible means, the Word and Sacraments, in the lives of individual believers as much as the corporate life of the congregation. One approaches God in prayer for one’s daily needs, how much more will one approach God in prayer when one sees that his faith is not being properly nurtured in one place and there is danger that his faith may in fact wither if he is not planted in a faith community with fruitful soil ( doctrine) by which his soul may be fed and his faith flourish. When one is firmly and faithfully planted in a fertile area, one will not be eager to uproot oneself again, unless he is truly convinced by Scripture and firm reason that he must leave ( and then, it might simply be from one spiritually sick congregation to a healthier one in the same Confession).

Maybe in 1,000 years, the divisions won’t be as stark as they are today ( or, maybe they’ll be worse), but right now, the divisions are as they have been and they will continue.

 

[Lenten_ashes]

If it were just the Lutherans as protestants there would be a slight chance of reunion. I mean there have been entire Anglican dioceses who decided to cross the Tiber together. Looking at justification and salvation by works/faith, it’s almost like they(CC/Lutherans) are saying the same things, just speaking different languages.

But overall there are too many spin-offs of spin-offs that drove their respective churches too far away, doctrinally, to ever come close to not only Rome, but even to Lutheran theology. The anti-Rome sentiment causes well intended Fundamentalist Christians to act hastily and rid themselves of anything that appears even slightly “Romish”.

My personal opinion is that Luther did not mean to throw out the baby with the bath water, though he inadvertently did.

 

[Contarini]

Sola Fide, 500 Years Later – How Wide is the Divide?
Felix Whelan • September 9, AD2016
catholicstand.com/sola-fide-500-years-later/

“…my take on the now 500 year old Protestant Reformation shouldn’t surprise anybody. It seems to me that if Jesus Himself founded the Roman Catholic Church (which He did; see Matthew 16:18), and sent the Holy Spirit to guide His Church in all truth (which He did; see John 16:13), then any Christian community not in union with the Roman Catholic Church must at some point have drawn one or more desperately wrong conclusions concerning Christ’s teaching, and followed those errors into theological darkness. If they weren’t in error, they would be in union with Rome. It’s that simple.”

More here: catholicstand.com/sola-fide-500-years-later/

The quote is illogical. It’s quite possible to be a schismatic–one who separates from the Church because one judges the Church to have fallen short in some way (including doctrinally).

I am not arguing that Protestantism is orthodox (and of course there are many varieties, some more orthodox than others). I’m just pointing out the lack of logic in the idea that if people leave the Church it might be because they have drawn a “desperately wrong” doctrinal conclusion. They might have valid theological insights but be impatient with the Church for not getting on board with those insights. They might have a partial perspective which isn’t terribly wrong itself, but which is less balanced than Church teaching.

This last is what I think “sola fide” represents. With the caveats and qualifications made by both Lutheran and Reformed (and most other major Protestant) traditions, it’s not “desperately wrong.” (Some versions of it held today are desperately wrong.) But it’s a one-sided and inbalanced take on the question of salvation, arising in part from some distortions and imbalances present in late medieval Western Catholicism.

 

[Peter_J]

Before we go deeper on whether the quote is illogical, or whatever, let me throw this question out here – not for anyone in particular, but for any contributor who feels like answering (or just thinking about it): how much, on a scale of one to ten, do you care what catholicstand.com thinks?

 

[Wesrock]

I think Trent came too late. An educated view on Catholic views of justification post-Trent seems to truly respond to the original Protestant objections, and Justification was probably THE central issue when the Reformation started. Things then progressed from there . . . The size of the divide of course depends on the denomination. Even as we come to terms over the original objections with some, twentieth and twenty-first century issues just seem to be widening the gap in other areas.

 

[wmscott]

This is just my personal opinion, but when theology is limited to the sola’s i.e. Sola Fide, by faith alone, Sola Scriptura, by Scripture alone, Solus Christus, through Christ alone, Sola Gratia, by grace alone, and Soli Deo Gloria, glory to God alone, then that is where limits and absolutes restrict faith and spiritual understanding. It is like tunnel vision.