Sola Fide, again!

[t68ware]

In regards to the doctrine of faith alone which we Protestants agree with(which I am struggling with as to whether I believe it or not), a college friend who is a Greek scholar sent me this in regards to the argument of “alone” being injected into the Biblical text. This is based on Eph 2:8. What think you?

“The word “alone” is not in the Greek text. Luther must have added this in his translation to try and -make it better english- Remember…when translating…Greek is too descriptive to translate into english…SO…we need to add some words to complete the actual meaning. Why? Because a literal word for word is not always possible. Because of verse 9 …I would say adding “alone” is not changing Paul’s intent here…in fact…it works well. Because Paul does continue and says “not by works”. I personally would not add it…because it is obviously Luther’s attack against works…but the addition does not change Paul’s obvious attack on works. One last thing…“grace” does have the definate article…a literal translation would then be ; “It is by the grace” (dative of means) “you have been saved” (participle) So, Luther did add “alone”. But the context and all of Paul’s other writing would combat the Jewish law of earning salvation. My two cents…Look at James (which luther hated) works does not earn our salvation…but faith cannot exist or be real without it being active. It is like saying we are playing baseball…yet never pick up a glove or bat. How does one know they play baseball? They actually Play. Faith is not an internal secret…actually it cannot remain secret. Paul also makes that point over and over again.”

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

In regards to the doctrine of faith alone which we Protestants agree with(which I am struggling with as to whether I believe it or not), a college friend who is a Greek scholar sent me this in regards to the argument of “alone” being injected into the Biblical text. This is based on Eph 2:8. What think you?

“The word “alone” is not in the Greek text. Luther must have added this in his translation to try and -make it better english- Remember…when translating…Greek is too descriptive to translate into english…SO…we need to add some words to complete the actual meaning. Why? Because a literal word for word is not always possible. Because of verse 9 …I would say adding “alone” is not changing Paul’s intent here…in fact…it works well. Because Paul does continue and says “not by works”. I personally would not add it…because it is obviously Luther’s attack against works…but the addition does not change Paul’s obvious attack on works. One last thing…“grace” does have the definate article…a literal translation would then be ; “It is by the grace” (dative of means) “you have been saved” (participle) So, Luther did add “alone”. But the context and all of Paul’s other writing would combat the Jewish law of earning salvation. My two cents…Look at James (which luther hated) works does not earn our salvation…but faith cannot exist or be real without it being active. It is like saying we are playing baseball…yet never pick up a glove or bat. How does one know they play baseball? They actually Play. Faith is not an internal secret…actually it cannot remain secret. Paul also makes that point over and over again.”

This is true Luther added the word “alone” when it was not his scripture to do so. Lets say he innocently applied this word alone to bring out a meaning in the text, this is false pretense also, because in Martin Luthers teachings, he was adamant about this new Sola Fide, “Only Faith alone” Only Scripture the cousin of the first poison, He used this for the common people to stop adhereing to the authority of the Catholic church, and also not to adhere to the Noble royalty, or civilian authorities. Which brought about much calamity and small wars.

I believe one aspect to recognize is that the Catholic church does not deny Faith as recorded in scripture., it is when you add the word “alone” to the scriputure is what causes the error. Then it becomes a man made tradition.

To apply “alone” to faith and or scripture, you tie the hand of God on how he reveals himself to humanity. For example, God prefers to reveal himself in blessings and Love to his children, not to mention miracles. Above all else God can reveal himself in his wrath and curses also to his enemies, this does not require faith but disobedience, recall Pharoh in Egypt in the plagues during Mosaic times.

We have to remember also, this faith theology, is what brings one to Christ, which scripture supports, and so does the Catholic church, but not “alone”. You must be born of water and spirit to enter the kingdom of God. This is an action of good works, that when faith is applied comes saving grace. “Faith without works is dead”. My point is this, Faith causes one to believe in Jesus, upon coming to Jesus we are commanded to do things… Take up your cross and follow me, baptise all nations, Confess our sins to one another, Live as Christ, Love your neighbor, Love God with all your heart,mind and soul, These are works that require faith.

Now grace is unearned, but to recieve grace, one must produce an act of faith, Just like when Jesus healed people, it was their faith that made them whole, when it was proclaimed (action) worked out, with fear and trembling.

One example of this free grace given is when The Catholic church, baptises our infants. Infants cant accept Jesus as their personal savior. But the infants and all who are baptised, can receive the Free Gift of Salvation from God’s Loving Grace, and thus become children of the living God, They enter the kingdom of God.

Now once saved from the baptismal waters, one works out their salvation with fear and trembling. Not by faith alone. Faith alone says God cannot save anyone without faith. Look at Abraham, who went to sacrifice his only Son to God, this took faith, but the faith is not revealed until an action was taken. Thus faith alone is not scriptural. Nor has it never been taught until the reformation of the Protestant movement.

This faith “alone” theology, seperates one from the root of Jesus teachings.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Just another thought about Pauls teaching about works. Paul describes works from the law and of the old covenant. When he preaches on faith and not by works. These works are not the same as what Christians believed. In other words, to be saved, one does not need to be circumcised, or offer animal sacrifices, these are works that Paul is trying to get the Jewish converts to realize. Paul is not conflicting his work and faith theology, Because Paul always preached to be baptised, and to repent, these are works that apply to James which both saints are in agreement. Faith by works brings about salvation. Not Faith “alone”

 

[SyCarl]

Martin Luther was not the first to talk about the concept of faith alone. A number of church fathers used the words faith alone or something similar.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Martin Luther was not the first to talk about the concept of faith alone. A number of church fathers used the words faith alone or something similar.

Yes they did, but not in the same context as Martin Luther. Their talks on faith alone, was to again seperate the Christian faith from secularism, that the Christian faith alone (which includes the sacraments) is what saves us, when compared to the secluarism of the time. The early church fathers did not seperate fatih alone, from the works of the Christian faith which included Charity, and the other Christian virtues, that were being addressed.

 

[SyCarl]

Yes they did, but not in the same context as Martin Luther. Their talks on faith alone, was to again seperate the Christian faith from secularism, that the Christian faith alone (which includes the sacraments) is what saves us, when compared to the secluarism of the time. The early church fathers did not seperate fatih alone, from the works of the Christian faith which included Charity, and the other Christian virtues, that were being addressed.

Here are some examples. Do these mean that the church fathers did not also emphasize doing works? Luther also urged good works.

1. For the name of Faith is in the form of speech one, but has two distinct senses. For there is one kind of faith, the dogmatic, involving an assent of the soul on some particular point: and it is profitable to the soul, as the Lord says: He that hears My words, and believes Him that sent Me, has everlasting life, and comes not into judgment John 5:24 : and again, He that believes in the Son is not judged, but has passed from death unto life. Oh the great loving-kindness of God! For the righteous were many years in pleasing Him: but what they succeeded in gaining by many years of well-pleasing, this Jesus now bestows on you in a single hour. For if you shall believe that Jesus Christ is Lord, and that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved, and shall be transported into Paradise by Him who brought in thither the robber. And doubt not whether it is possible; for He who on this sacred Golgotha saved the robber after one single hour of belief, the same shall save you also on your believing -Cyril of Jerusalem (Catechetical Lectures, Lecture 5, Paragraph 10)
   newadvent.org/fathers/310105.htm

“Having now to the best of my ability, and as I think sufficiently, replied to the reasonings of this author, if I be asked what is my own opinion in this matter, I answer, after carefully pondering the question, that in the Gospels and Epistles, and the entire collection of books for our instruction called the New Testament, I see that fasting is enjoined. But I do not discover any rule definitely laid down by the Lord or by the apostles as to days on which we ought or ought not to fast. And by this I am persuaded that exemption from fasting on the seventh day is more suitable, not indeed to obtain, but to foreshadow, that eternal rest in which the true Sabbath is realized, and which is obtained only by faith, and by that righteousness whereby the daughter of the King is all glorious within.” –Augustine (Letters, Letter 36, Paragraph 25)
ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf101.vii.1.XXXVI.html

And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.-Clement of Rome (Epistle to the Corinthians, Chapter 32)
newadvent.org/fathers/1010.htm

to be continued

 

[SyCarl]

But after saying that “it was excluded,” he shows also, how. How then does he say it was excluded? “By what law? of works? Nay, but by the law of faith.” See he calls the faith also a law delighting to keep to the names, and so allay the seeming novelty. But what is the “law of faith?” It is, being saved by grace. Here he shows God’s power, in that He has not only saved, but has even justified, and led them to boasting, and this too without needing works, but looking for faith only.-John Chrysostom, (Homilies on Romans, Homily 7)
newadvent.org/fathers/210207.htm

For as men, upon receiving some great good, ask themselves if it is not a dream, as not believing it; so it is with respect to the gifts of God. What then was it that was thought incredible? That those who were enemies, and sinners, neither justified by the law, nor by works, should immediately through faith alone be advanced to the highest favor.
Against this he contends; for it seemed to them incredible, that a man who had mis-spent all his former life in vain and wicked actions, should afterwards be saved by his faith alone. On this account he says, “It is a saying to be believed.”-John Chrysostom. (Homilies on 1 Timothy, Homily 4)
ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf113.v.iii.v.html

They said that he who kept not the Law was cursed, but he proves that he who kept it was cursed, and he who kept it not, blessed. **Again, they said that he who adhered to Faith alone was cursed, but he shows that he who adhered to Faith alone, is blessed **-John Chrysostom (Homilies on Galatians, Homily 3, Verse 8)
newadvent.org/fathers/23103.htm

For he makes a wide distinction between “commandments” and “ordinances.” He either then means “faith,” calling that an “ordinance,” (for by faith alone He saved us,) or he means “precept,” such as Christ gave, when He said, “But I say unto you, that you are not to be angry at all.”-John Chrysostom (Homilies on Ephesians, Homily 5)
newadvent.org/fathers/230105.htm

God has decreed that a person who believes in Christ can be saved without works. By faith alone he receives the forgiveness of sins.”-Ambrosiaster in Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament VII: 1-2 Corinthians (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1999), p. 6.

They are justified freely because they have not done anything nor given anything in return, but by faith alone they have been made holy by the gift of God.” Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture,-Ambrosiaster in New Testament VI: Romans (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1998), p. 101

“How then can the Jews think that they have been justified by the works of the law in the same way as Abraham, when they see that Abraham was not justified by the works of the law but by faith alone? Therefore there is no need of the law when the ungodly is justified before God by faith alone.” -Ambrosiaster in Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament VI: Romans (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1998), p. 112.

“‘righteousness apart from works’: Paul backs this up by the example of the prophet David, who says that those are blessed of whom God has decreed that, without work or any keeping of the law, they are justified before God by faith alone.”-Ambrosiaster in Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament VI: Romans (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1998), p. 113.

Every mystery which is enacted by our Lord Jesus Christ asks only for faith. The mystery was enacted at that time for our sake and aimed at our resurrection and liberation, should we have faith in the mystery of Christ and in Christ. For the patriarchs prefigured and foretold that man would be justified from faith. Therefore, just as it was reckoned as righteousness to Abraham that he had faith, so we too, if we have faith in Christ and every mystery of his, will be sons of Abraham. Our whole life will be accounted as righteous.- Marius Victorinus in Epistle to the Galatians, 1.3.7. Mark J. Edwards, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament VI: Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1998), p. 39.

Abraham is the image of someone who is justified by faith alone, since what he believed was credited to him as righteousness. But he is also approved because of his works, since he offered up his son Isaac on the altar. Of course he did not do this work by itself; in doing it, he remained firmly anchored in his faith, believing that through Isaac his seed would be multiplied until it was as numerous as the stars.”-Oecumenius in Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture: New Testament, Vol. XI, James, 1-2 Peter, 1-3 John, Jude (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 2000), p. 33.

It is therefore wrong to interpret Paul in such a way as to suggest that it did not matter whether Abraham put his faith into practice or not. What Paul meant was that no one obtains the gift of justification on the basis of merits derived from works performed beforehand, because the gift of justification comes only from faith”-Bede in Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament XI: James, 1-2Peter, 1-3 John, Jude (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 2000), p. 31.

 

[MrStain]

Here is one that should be pondered by all sola fide believers:

“…and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing” 1 Cor 13:2 - KJV

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

SyCarl:
SYCARL, Great quotes!, I liked them. I see the only faith teachings, that call one out to believe in Christ Jesus. I dont see the comparison to the Lutheran theology of Faith “alone” saves. If you can picture these lectures, and homilies and the people they are addressing, you will see that the words, faith and alone can be justified in the teaching, but these Catholic church fathers, know very well after the lecture or homily, like St. Paul and St. Peter, they will be asked, what must we do to be saved, and these Catholic fathers would teach them catechism.( the Sacraments) to enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[wisdomseeker]

SYCARL, Great quotes!, I liked them. I see the only faith teachings, that call one out to believe in Christ Jesus. I dont see the comparison to the Lutheran theology of Faith “alone” saves. If you can picture these lectures, and homilies and the people they are addressing, you will see that the words, faith and alone can be justified in the teaching, but these Catholic church fathers, know very well after the lecture or homily, like St. Paul and St. Peter, they will be asked, what must we do to be saved, and these Catholic fathers would teach them catechism.( the Sacraments) to enter into the kingdom of God.

it is difficult for you to understand the Scriptures as catholics do because we dont pick verses by verse and try to interpret it. we do not read the Scriptures in this way. trying to arguing here in this way is pointless.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

it is difficult for you to understand the Scriptures as catholics do because we dont pick verses by verse and try to interpret it. we do not read the Scriptures in this way. trying to arguing here in this way is pointless.

I agree with your points, but what does this have to do with faith “alone”. It is true a Catholic takes scripture in its full context, and also it cannot conflict anywhere with God’s Word, or it is not believed as truth. As a Catholic I always look to the context of the scripture, be it Poetry, allegory, prophecy, Gospel, typology etc. Take the present interpretation of the time and cultural when and why it was revealed or written, and compare it to the teachings of Jesus. And if I have a problem, I go to the Catholic church, early Church fathers, and Doctors of the Church. You cant go wrong either without a catechism of the Catholic church.

 

[bengal_fan]

In regards to the doctrine of faith alone which we Protestants agree with(which I am struggling with as to whether I believe it or not), a college friend who is a Greek scholar sent me this in regards to the argument of “alone” being injected into the Biblical text. This is based on Eph 2:8. What think you?

well, first i think that luther added the word “alone” to romans 3:28. not to ephesians 8.

"The word “alone” is not in the Greek text. Luther must have added this in his translation to try and -make it better english-

luther translated into german, not english.

now, if we want to discuss the idea of sola fide, we must include the phrase that goes with it: sola gratia (grace alone).

luther (and the other reformers) taught salvation by grace alone (just like augustine did). sola fide (faith alone) is how we receive that grace. we cannot do anything to get the grace for only those called by God can even have the faith to receive the grace. Jesus says this in John chapters 4-6 especially. augustine says this in his attack on pelagius. luther and calvin and others just picked up their arguments again. none of them would have said works are of no use. they would have said that our faith is shown and strengthened (and thus an experience of more grace) through works (“for we are God’s workmanship, pre-destined to do good works” -eph 2:10). this is not far from the catholic view of today. it was far from the catholic practice (how the church was acting and thus what it’s followers thought… although wrongly) of luther’s day.

i do not think we are too far off on this issue. of course there are some protestant groups that have taken sola fide (as well as sola scriptura) much farther than luther or calvin or zwingli would like. their are also those who have adopted the views of zwingli (which is ever increasing among protestantism which is sad as i think zwingli was wrong on many things) when it comes to the nature of the sacraments. they are not purely symbolic in my (as well as luther and calvin’s) opinion.

all this to say, we cannot talk about sola fide without sola gratia as they were linked.

 

[NDfan]

This is true Luther added the word “alone” when it was not his scripture to do so. Lets say he innocently applied this word alone to bring out a meaning in the text, this is false pretense also, because in Martin Luthers teachings, he was adamant about this new Sola Fide, “Only Faith alone” Only Scripture the cousin of the first poison, He used this for the common people to stop adhereing to the authority of the Catholic church, and also not to adhere to the Noble royalty, or civilian authorities. Which brought about much calamity and small wars.

I believe one aspect to recognize is that the Catholic church does not deny Faith as recorded in scripture., it is when you add the word “alone” to the scriputure is what causes the error. Then it becomes a man made tradition.

To apply “alone” to faith and or scripture, you tie the hand of God on how he reveals himself to humanity. For example, God prefers to reveal himself in blessings and Love to his children, not to mention miracles. Above all else God can reveal himself in his wrath and curses also to his enemies, this does not require faith but disobedience, recall Pharoh in Egypt in the plagues during Mosaic times.

We have to remember also, this faith theology, is what brings one to Christ, which scripture supports, and so does the Catholic church, but not “alone”. You must be born of water and spirit to enter the kingdom of God. This is an action of good works, that when faith is applied comes saving grace. “Faith without works is dead”. My point is this, Faith causes one to believe in Jesus, upon coming to Jesus we are commanded to do things… Take up your cross and follow me, baptise all nations, Confess our sins to one another, Live as Christ, Love your neighbor, Love God with all your heart,mind and soul, These are works that require faith.

Now grace is unearned, but to recieve grace, one must produce an act of faith, Just like when Jesus healed people, it was their faith that made them whole, when it was proclaimed (action) worked out, with fear and trembling.

One example of this free grace given is when The Catholic church, baptises our infants. Infants cant accept Jesus as their personal savior. But the infants and all who are baptised, can receive the Free Gift of Salvation from God’s Loving Grace, and thus become children of the living God, They enter the kingdom of God.

Now once saved from the baptismal waters, one works out their salvation with fear and trembling. Not by faith alone. Faith alone says God cannot save anyone without faith. Look at Abraham, who went to sacrifice his only Son to God, this took faith, but the faith is not revealed until an action was taken. Thus faith alone is not scriptural. Nor has it never been taught until the reformation of the Protestant movement.

This faith “alone” theology, seperates one from the root of Jesus teachings.

Gabriel I have several Protestant Bibles and no where do the words Faith alone, grace alone etc. appear. I actually love the ESV Bible which is a reformation study bible that was written by RC Sproul. Sproul does an excellent job of explaining the sola’s of the reformation but does not include the word alone in the text of the ESV Bible. NLT is the same way. They stay true to the original interpretations. I’ve done side by side comparisons of a few Protestant Bibles and Catholic Bibles. From Genesis to Revelations and the text is almost identical.

 

[inthecloud]

The addition is only in the German Bible translated by Luther.

 

[justinthemartyr]

where in the Bible does it say “faith alone” specifically?

other than James 2:24, I cannot find it, and there it says “not by faith alone”

pretty simple really.

 

[t68ware]

Romans 3:21-31 explicitly teaches that justification comes by grace through faith alone. That doesn’t mean that works are irrelevant to the life of grace (as Catholic moral teaching rightly emphasizes). Most contemporary Catholic theologians will agree with this appraisal. Works are not done in order to justify but are seen as a result of justification. Where the law is powerless to produce justification, faith in and through Jesus Christ, in the power of the Spirit is able to produce a life that pleases God. Works are apart of the process but do not come from our own resource of strength (Paul calls that flesh, and he doesn’t have a good opinion about it) but rather from the resource of God’s strengthening Holy Spirit (Romans 8). The key word in chapter 3 or Romans is “gift”. That gift is appropriated through trusting dependence on Jesus Christ for justification. My own opinion is that justification has to do not only with legal standing before God but relational standing
before God, as well. There are a couple of other passages in Galatians that more or less assert what Paul has emphasized in Romans but the Romans text is the locus classicus for the discussion.

This is a note from a United Methodist pastor regarding the issue of sola fide…