S
Shaolen
Guest
I want to ask. Is there a real difference in being “saved” or being “justified”? Or does my brother just not have a good argument so he’s trying to dig for anything he can use?
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pablope
Guest
You are doung great…and you are right…your brother is turning to semantics because he cannot seem to refute you.I want to ask. Is there a real difference in being “saved” or being “justified”? Or does my brother just not have a good argument so he’s trying to dig for anything he can use?
Have your brother define what he means by saved and justification and sanctification…most likely, he is following the protestant understanding of justification as an initial legal declaration. For more infor…look for the article by Dr. Marsner…chnetwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/salvation.pdf
The tiltle is justification by faith…you will learn alot of the protestant understanding.
C
Cathoholic
Guest
Thanks Shaolen
These verses might help you too if/when he denies grace works (here, here, and here).
When I am discussing sola fide with these guys I almost never appeal to James.
These folks have had it beat into there heads frequently that when James says “you are not justified by faith alone” that it means “you are justified by faith alone”.
Their ministers would HAVE to do this.
I usually just stick to St. Paul’s writings.
Keep asking him if he had faith to move mountains but not charity if he has “salvation” or “nothing” (see the third link above).
This link might help too.
These verses might help you too if/when he denies grace works (here, here, and here).
When I am discussing sola fide with these guys I almost never appeal to James.
These folks have had it beat into there heads frequently that when James says “you are not justified by faith alone” that it means “you are justified by faith alone”.
Their ministers would HAVE to do this.
I usually just stick to St. Paul’s writings.
Keep asking him if he had faith to move mountains but not charity if he has “salvation” or “nothing” (see the third link above).
This link might help too.
F
fhansen
Guest
We don’t receive grace as a result of faith, rather faith is a gift of grace, as are works or any other virtue or response to grace that we may possess or act upon.So I’m in a discussion about sola fide with my dad who is Baptist. I stated Janes 2:24 which says by works we are justified and not by faith alone. And I asked if faith alone is true then why is it that the only place in scripture that says faith alone it says “not” right before it. He then quotes ephesians 2:8-9 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man boast. Ephesians 2:8-9 King James translation.”
So I then responded “Amen I agree with everything that passage says. But it doesn’t answer my question as to why if sola fide is true would the bible say that by works we are justified not by faith alone. Is the bible contradicting itself? Is the bible therefore useless? No. The answer is that the Ephesians passage you quoted doesn’t say we’re justified by faith [alone]. Somehow it seems to be forgotten that St. Paul who wrote Ephesians 2:8-9 also wrote Ephesians 2:10 “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto [good works], which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.” St. Paul is saying any works done either before entering Christ or apart from Christ profit nothing for salvation. But works in Christ --faith working through love – do. James goes on to say “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.” It’s no wonder Martin Luther tried to throw the book of James out of the bible. And when he was forced to put it back in he called it an “epistle of straw”. So faith + works is what the bible teaches. Sola fide is unbiblical”
He has now replied “We are saved by the Grace of God! We receive that grace because of our faith. And we are told to do good works. In your statement you say works “before or apart from Christ profit nothing”. Before entering Christ, God’s grace saves you because of your faith. After that your works profit you. You are saved before you are in Christ to have your works count…”
Can someone help with this?
S
Shaolen
Guest
My brother has now said
“It’s in there. You’ll have to read past the first sentence though. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_fide. From that article, “Many Catholics see the exclusion of ‘works of the law’ as only referring to works done for salvation under the Mosaic law, versus works of faith which are held as meritorious for salvation. Jesus was not instituting keeping a higher moral code as means of salvation, and tend to see the exclusion of “works of the law” (as the means of obtaining justification) as referring to any works of the Mosaic law, and by implication, any ‘works of righteousness which we have done’ (Titus 3:5) or any system in which one earns eternal life on the basis of the merit of works.” So you see, it’s not a case of you’re saved now and it doesn’t matter what you do the rest of your life. It never was.”
He seems to think that sola fide somehow doesn’t mean faith alone with no works involved. I don’t see how his conclusion relates to what he quoted from the Wikipedia page though. Can someone help with this?
“It’s in there. You’ll have to read past the first sentence though. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_fide. From that article, “Many Catholics see the exclusion of ‘works of the law’ as only referring to works done for salvation under the Mosaic law, versus works of faith which are held as meritorious for salvation. Jesus was not instituting keeping a higher moral code as means of salvation, and tend to see the exclusion of “works of the law” (as the means of obtaining justification) as referring to any works of the Mosaic law, and by implication, any ‘works of righteousness which we have done’ (Titus 3:5) or any system in which one earns eternal life on the basis of the merit of works.” So you see, it’s not a case of you’re saved now and it doesn’t matter what you do the rest of your life. It never was.”
He seems to think that sola fide somehow doesn’t mean faith alone with no works involved. I don’t see how his conclusion relates to what he quoted from the Wikipedia page though. Can someone help with this?
T
TxGodfollower
Guest
AG, do you believe marriage is for life? How does that go with free will? You are bound by the oath you swore before God to love your spouse until death. God never intended for divorce, or man to just change your mind and be with someone else.For a while I tried to believe in sola fide and “once saved always saved,” but I couldn’t bring myself to believing it. The biggest reason, and maybe you could bring this up with your father, was that “once saved, always saved,” to me, throws out our free will. I couldn’t agree with the fact that if someone decided they didn’t want to go to Heaven after they were “once and finally saved” they couldn’t. The counter might be something like “well you didn’t believe in the first place.” Someone above me has commented on this idea as well, but who am I to say someone believes or not. How foolish of me to say something like that. Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 4:2-5 that it is God alone who judges, not him, not anyone else, and all will be revealed in due time. I mean, it’s by God’s grace that we have free will at all. So, yes, it’s all by God’s grace, and thanks be to Him for that! This free will is what makes loving God and God loving us the greatest of all of creation. Without total free will to chose how we live our lives a part of the intimacy of love is lost. I began to think we were just robots pre-programmed to do stuff. I didn’t want to be a robot. We can freely chose to reject God BUT we can also freely chose to love Him and this is what makes God’s love so pure.
F
fhansen
Guest
No, grace is the passion and death and resurrection of Christ because grace is the life and love of God in us, which is what Christ’s life and death and ressurection came to make possible for us.Aren’t we saved by Jesus’ death on the cross?
This is the problem I have with the song “Amazing Grace”.
Grace didn’t save me. Christ’s passion and death and Resurrection saved me. Grace is a bonus!
S
Shaolen
Guest
Please if anyone can help with this.My brother has now said
“It’s in there. You’ll have to read past the first sentence though. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_fide. From that article, “Many Catholics see the exclusion of ‘works of the law’ as only referring to works done for salvation under the Mosaic law, versus works of faith which are held as meritorious for salvation. Jesus was not instituting keeping a higher moral code as means of salvation, and tend to see the exclusion of “works of the law” (as the means of obtaining justification) as referring to any works of the Mosaic law, and by implication, any ‘works of righteousness which we have done’ (Titus 3:5) or any system in which one earns eternal life on the basis of the merit of works.” So you see, it’s not a case of you’re saved now and it doesn’t matter what you do the rest of your life. It never was.”
He seems to think that sola fide somehow doesn’t mean faith alone with no works involved. I don’t see how his conclusion relates to what he quoted from the Wikipedia page though. Can someone help with this?
F
fhansen
Guest
Some people act as if the Greatest Commandments, given to us by Christ, and by which the law is fulfilled, were some sort of* sidenote* or were superseded by faith as a kind of* reprieve* from an obligation to be righteous; as if sin, that which separated man from God to begin with and continues to separate us, no longer mattered, as if faith/trust is all God wants and then we’re magically justified in spite of our continued unrighteousness. That is* not* the gospel,; that is *not *the New Covenant. Christ’s burden is light, not non-existent. We’re expected, throughout our lives, to strive, to persevere, to be vigilant, to feed the hungry and clothe the naked, to invest grace given, to work out our salvation together with He Who works in us. Faith is the *beginning *of this process, because it’s the beginning of restored relationship with God by means of which He can effect the authentic changes-the justice- in us that we were created for.
F
fhansen
Guest
The CC separates the virtue of faith from love, and both of those from the virtue of hope as well. And this is why St Augustine could say, “Without love faith can indeed exist, but avails nothing". And St Paul could say in 1 Cor 13, “…if I have faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing”, and, “So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love.” And why St James can say in the 2nd chapter of his letter, “So also faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead”, and “See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.”Please if anyone can help with this.
"The only thing that counts is faith working through love" Gal 5:6
E
epostle
Guest
Ephesians 2:8-9 is true, but it does’t say faith alone. Furthermore, he errs on his understanding of “works”. “Good works” in Greek is an entirely different word than “works of the law”; Protestants constantly confuse the two.So I’m in a discussion about sola fide with my dad who is Baptist. I stated Janes 2:24 which says by works we are justified and not by faith alone. And I asked if faith alone is true then why is it that the only place in scripture that says faith alone it says “not” right before it. He then quotes ephesians 2:8-9 “For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves:it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man boast. Ephesians 2:8-9 King James translation.”
Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16,21; 3:2,5,10; Eph. 2:8-9 Paul’s teaching that we are not justified by “works of the law” refer to the law of Moses or to any legal system that makes God our debtor. They do not refer to good works done in grace with faith in Christ. This makes sense when we remember that Paul’s mission was to teach that salvation was also for the Gentiles who were not subject to the “works of the law.” Here is the proof:
James 2:24 – compare the verse “a man is justified by works and not by faith alone” to Gal. 2:16 – “a man is not justified by works of the law,” and Rom. 3:20,28 – “no human being will be justified in His sight by works of the law.” James 2:24 appears to be inconsistent with Gal. 2:16 and Rom. 3:20,28 until one realizes that the Word of God cannot contradict itself. This means that the “works” in James 2:24 are different from the “works of the law in Gal. 2:16 and Rom. 3:20,28. James is referring to “good works” (e.g.,clothing the naked; giving food to the poor) and Paul is referring to the “Mosaic law” (which included both the legal, moral and ceremonial law) or any works which oblige God to give us payment. Here is more proof:
Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16 - Paul’s phrase for “works of the law” in the Greek is** “ergon nomou”** which means the Mosaic law or Torah and refers to the teachings (legal, moral) and works (ceremonial) that gave the Jews the knowledge of sin, but not an escape from sin. We have further proof of this from the Dead Sea Scrolls which provide the Hebrew equivalent (“hrvt ysm”) meaning “deeds of the law,” or Mosaic law. James in James 2 does not use “ergon nomou.” He uses "ergois agathois." Therefore, Paul’s “works of the law” and James’ “works” are entirely different types of works. Again, they could never contradict each other because the Scriptures are the inspired word of God.
see above.So I then responded “Amen I agree with everything that passage says. But it doesn’t answer my question as to why if sola fide is true would the bible say that by works we are justified not by faith alone. Is the bible contradicting itself? Is the bible therefore useless? No. The answer is that the Ephesians passage you quoted doesn’t say we’re justified by faith [alone]. Somehow it seems to be forgotten that St. Paul who wrote Ephesians 2:8-9 also wrote Ephesians 2:10 “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto [good works], which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.” St. Paul is saying any works done either before entering Christ or apart from Christ profit nothing for salvation. But works in Christ --faith working through love – do. James goes on to say “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.” It’s no wonder Martin Luther tried to throw the book of James out of the bible. And when he was forced to put it back in he called it an “epistle of straw”. So faith + works is what the bible teaches. Sola fide is unbiblical”
Tell him that is a Catholic teaching Protestants borrowed from Catholicism 500 years ago, along with 90% of their beliefs. We had them first.He has now replied "We are saved by the Grace of God!
source of citations: scripturecatholic.com/justification.html#justification-II
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pablope
Guest
Again, Wikepedia is not a valid source for what Catholics actually believe…do stress that to him. Have him cite the CCC…and have him explain it…is your best recourse.My brother has now said
“It’s in there. You’ll have to read past the first sentence though. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sola_fide. From that article, “Many Catholics see the exclusion of ‘works of the law’ as only referring to works done for salvation under the Mosaic law, versus works of faith which are held as meritorious for salvation. Jesus was not instituting keeping a higher moral code as means of salvation, and tend to see the exclusion of “works of the law” (as the means of obtaining justification) as referring to any works of the Mosaic law, and by implication, any ‘works of righteousness which we have done’ (Titus 3:5) or any system in which one earns eternal life on the basis of the merit of works.” So you see, it’s not a case of you’re saved now and it doesn’t matter what you do the rest of your life. It never was.”
He seems to think that sola fide somehow doesn’t mean faith alone with no works involved. I don’t see how his conclusion relates to what he quoted from the Wikipedia page though. Can someone help with this?
chnetwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/salvation.pdf
Justification By Faith
By Dr. William Marshner
Stages of Justification
Catholic and Protestant views on the respective roles of grace, faith and works cannot be compared meaningfully, unless one specifies what stage of the justificational process one is talking about. In the preparatory stage, for instance, in which prevenient graces first stir a person towards an interest in religious truth, towards repentance, and towards faith, Catholics, Lutherans and Calvinists are at one in saying “sola gratia.”2 A second stage is the very transition from death to life, which is the first stage of justification proper. Here the parties are at one in saying “sola fide,” though they seem to mean different things by it. Protestants tend to mean that, at this stage, by the grace of God, man’s act of faith is the sole act required of him; Catholics mean that faith is the beginning, foundation and root of all justification, since only faith makes possible the acts of hope and charity (i.e. love-for-God) which are also required.3 However, since most Protestants have a broad notion of the act of faith, whereby it includes elements of hope and love, it is often hard to tell how far the difference on this point is real and how far it is a matter of words. Finally, however, there comes a third stage, that of actual Christian life, with its problems of growth and perseverance. The man justified by faith is called to “walk” with God, to progress in holiness. It is at this stage that the parties sharply diverge. Catholics affirm, and Protestants strenuously deny, that the born-again Christian’s good works merit for him the increase of grace and of the Christian virtues. As a result, Protestant piety has no obvious place for the self- sacrifices, fasts, and states of perfection which are prominent features of Catholic piety. At each stage, neither the apparent agreements nor the apparent disagreements can be understood without looking at certain metaphysical quarrels, the chief of which is over the very existence of what
Catholics call “grace.”
H
hadulzo
Guest
This is a pointless argument with family. Need to share tenets you have in common, share your joy as a catholic and pray for them arguing just develops hard feelings Jesus was not welcome in Nazareth. Talking with you brother after thing calm down about why he left the vhurch is ok… cA has a book about bring relative back but thats the gist of it.
S
Shaolen
Guest
I appreciate this. It isn’t a heated argument though. Just discussionThis is a pointless argument with family. Need to share tenets you have in common, share your joy as a catholic and pray for them arguing just develops hard feelings Jesus was not welcome in Nazareth. Talking with you brother after thing calm down about why he left the vhurch is ok… cA has a book about bring relative back but thats the gist of it.
S
Shaolen
Guest
So my brother has now stated the following
“What you are charging protestants as being is an antinomian en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinomianism Martin Luther, who opposed antinomianism, is recorded as stating, “Works are necessary for salvation but they do not cause salvation; for faith alone gives life.””
“Of faith, Luther said it is, “a living, creative, active and powerful thing, this faith. Faith cannot help doing good works constantly. It doesn’t stop to ask if good works ought to be done, but before anyone asks, it already has done them and continues to do them without ceasing. Anyone who does not do good works in this manner is an unbeliever…Thus, it is just as impossible to separate faith and works as it is to separate heat and light from fire!””
This is making me awfully confused.
“What you are charging protestants as being is an antinomian en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinomianism Martin Luther, who opposed antinomianism, is recorded as stating, “Works are necessary for salvation but they do not cause salvation; for faith alone gives life.””
“Of faith, Luther said it is, “a living, creative, active and powerful thing, this faith. Faith cannot help doing good works constantly. It doesn’t stop to ask if good works ought to be done, but before anyone asks, it already has done them and continues to do them without ceasing. Anyone who does not do good works in this manner is an unbeliever…Thus, it is just as impossible to separate faith and works as it is to separate heat and light from fire!””
This is making me awfully confused.
F
fhansen
Guest
**“You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble.” **James 2:19 Faith simply does not, of necessity, produce good works. *Love *does that. Love is the core tenet of the gospel, love is what man’s justice consists of, love is what faith should, but won’t necessarily, lead to.So my brother has now stated the following
“What you are charging protestants as being is an antinomian en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinomianism Martin Luther, who opposed antinomianism, is recorded as stating, “Works are necessary for salvation but they do not cause salvation; for faith alone gives life.””
“Of faith, Luther said it is, “a living, creative, active and powerful thing, this faith. Faith cannot help doing good works constantly. It doesn’t stop to ask if good works ought to be done, but before anyone asks, it already has done them and continues to do them without ceasing. Anyone who does not do good works in this manner is an unbeliever…Thus, it is just as impossible to separate faith and works as it is to separate heat and light from fire!””
This is making me awfully confused.
C
Cathoholic
Guest
(Luther) is recorded as stating, “Works are necessary for salvation but they do not cause salvation; for faith alone gives life.”"
I’d probably not challenge him if he affirms, “Works are necessary for salvation”.
You can tell him the “cause” of something is a philosophical term.
There are different “causes” of our salvation and in a sense your brother is right (and another sense he is wrong). I’d give him the benefit of a doubt but use this as a chance to explain the faith to him to bring him deeper into the fullness of truth. Then let the Holy Spirit grow those seeds you planted.
(I am not suggesting quitting dialogue with him)
Here is what the Council of Trent said on “causes” of our salvation (you can assert this to him and perhaps build upon what you have in common here.)
Session 6 of the Council of Trent states:
Council of Trent (Session 6)
It is furthermore declared that in adults the beginning of that justification must proceed from the predisposing grace of God through Jesus Christ, that is, . . . without any merits on their part, they are called; . . .
. . . none of those things which precede justification-whether faith or works-merit the grace itself of justification.
Now let’s briefly review the causes of our justification before going on (also directly from Trent).
Causes of our Salvation (according to the Council of Trent)
Fortunately the Council of Trent answers this too.
COUNCIL OF TRENT (Chapter XI) But no one, however much justified, should consider himself exempt from the observance of the commandments;
This is all takes place by cooperating with God’s grace. This is what Steve Wood refers to as “Grace works”.
The CCC puts it this way . . .
CCC 1853c . . . in the heart also resides charity, the source of the good and pure works, which sin wounds.
St. Thomas Aquinas this way . . . .
ST. THOMAS AQUINAS “Charity is the form, mover, mother, and root of all the virtues.”
I’d probably not challenge him if he affirms, “Works are necessary for salvation”.
You can tell him the “cause” of something is a philosophical term.
There are different “causes” of our salvation and in a sense your brother is right (and another sense he is wrong). I’d give him the benefit of a doubt but use this as a chance to explain the faith to him to bring him deeper into the fullness of truth. Then let the Holy Spirit grow those seeds you planted.
(I am not suggesting quitting dialogue with him)
Here is what the Council of Trent said on “causes” of our salvation (you can assert this to him and perhaps build upon what you have in common here.)
Session 6 of the Council of Trent states:
Council of Trent (Session 6)
It is furthermore declared that in adults the beginning of that justification must proceed from the predisposing grace of God through Jesus Christ, that is, . . . without any merits on their part, they are called; . . .
. . . none of those things which precede justification-whether faith or works-merit the grace itself of justification.
Now let’s briefly review the causes of our justification before going on (also directly from Trent).
Causes of our Salvation (according to the Council of Trent)
- Final Cause = Glory of God and Jesus Christ and Life Everlasting
- Efficient Cause is God (giving us) the Holy Spirit
- Meritorious cause is our Lord Jesus Christ, . . . by His most holy Passion on the wood of the cross, and made satisfaction for us unto God the Father
- Instrumental Cause the instrumental cause is the sacrament of baptism, which is the sacrament of faith, without which (faith) no man was ever justified.
- Formal cause is the justice of God . . . .
Fortunately the Council of Trent answers this too.
COUNCIL OF TRENT (Chapter XI) But no one, however much justified, should consider himself exempt from the observance of the commandments;
This is all takes place by cooperating with God’s grace. This is what Steve Wood refers to as “Grace works”.
The CCC puts it this way . . .
CCC 1853c . . . in the heart also resides charity, the source of the good and pure works, which sin wounds.
St. Thomas Aquinas this way . . . .
ST. THOMAS AQUINAS “Charity is the form, mover, mother, and root of all the virtues.”
- St. Thomas Aquinas
E
ericc
Guest
We are redeemed by Christ death. We are not saved automatically. A few things need to happen.Aren’t we saved by Jesus’ death on the cross?
This is the problem I have with the song “Amazing Grace”.
Grace didn’t save me. Christ’s passion and death and Resurrection saved me. Grace is a bonus!
- The Father must draw him. Grace, this must comes first.
- We need to cooperate with His Grace.
S
Shaolen
Guest
So he stated this
““…James is dealing with people who profess to be Christians, and yet they don’t evidence the reality of their faith by theirworks [deeds]. Over, and over again… people will say they have faith and they don’t have works, and James is saying that real faith always produces works as a result… The question is, ‘A man may say that he has faith, but will that faith justify him?’ If it is just a ‘said’ faith”—no, it won’t!” (D. James Kennedy in“Irreconcilable Differences,” a roundtable discussion and television broadcast, Ft. Lauderdale FL, 1995)”
Romans 3:20—“Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in [God’s] sight: for by the law is the knowledge ofsin.”
Romans 3:28—“Therefore we conclude that a man is justified byfaith without the deeds of the law.”
Titus 3:5—“He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing ofregeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit.”
I have now addressed James 2:24. Now address Luke 9:49-50 and tell me why you disobey Jesus because he says, “for whoever is not against you is for you.””
““…James is dealing with people who profess to be Christians, and yet they don’t evidence the reality of their faith by theirworks [deeds]. Over, and over again… people will say they have faith and they don’t have works, and James is saying that real faith always produces works as a result… The question is, ‘A man may say that he has faith, but will that faith justify him?’ If it is just a ‘said’ faith”—no, it won’t!” (D. James Kennedy in“Irreconcilable Differences,” a roundtable discussion and television broadcast, Ft. Lauderdale FL, 1995)”
Romans 3:20—“Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in [God’s] sight: for by the law is the knowledge ofsin.”
Romans 3:28—“Therefore we conclude that a man is justified byfaith without the deeds of the law.”
Titus 3:5—“He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing ofregeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit.”
I have now addressed James 2:24. Now address Luke 9:49-50 and tell me why you disobey Jesus because he says, “for whoever is not against you is for you.””
S
Shaolen
Guest
Omg this helps a ton(Luther) is recorded as stating, “Works are necessary for salvation but they do not cause salvation; for faith alone gives life.”"
I’d probably not challenge him if he affirms, “Works are necessary for salvation”.
You can tell him the “cause” of something is a philosophical term.
There are different “causes” of our salvation and in a sense your brother is right (and another sense he is wrong). I’d give him the benefit of a doubt but use this as a chance to explain the faith to him to bring him deeper into the fullness of truth. Then let the Holy Spirit grow those seeds you planted.
(I am not suggesting quitting dialogue with him)
Here is what the Council of Trent said on “causes” of our salvation (you can assert this to him and perhaps build upon what you have in common here.)
Session 6 of the Council of Trent states:
Council of Trent (Session 6)
It is furthermore declared that in adults the beginning of that justification must proceed from the predisposing grace of God through Jesus Christ, that is, . . . without any merits on their part, they are called; . . .
. . . none of those things which precede justification-whether faith or works-merit the grace itself of justification.
Now let’s briefly review the causes of our justification before going on (also directly from Trent).
Causes of our Salvation (according to the Council of Trent)
OK. So once we have the initial grace of justification are we expected to GROW in justification via grace?
- Final Cause = Glory of God and Jesus Christ and Life Everlasting
- Efficient Cause is God (giving us) the Holy Spirit
- Meritorious cause is our Lord Jesus Christ, . . . by His most holy Passion on the wood of the cross, and made satisfaction for us unto God the Father
- Instrumental Cause the instrumental cause is the sacrament of baptism, which is the sacrament of faith, without which (faith) no man was ever justified.
- Formal cause is the justice of God . . . .
Fortunately the Council of Trent answers this too.
COUNCIL OF TRENT (Chapter XI) But no one, however much justified, should consider himself exempt from the observance of the commandments;
This is all takes place by cooperating with God’s grace. This is what Steve Wood refers to as “Grace works”.
The CCC puts it this way . . .
CCC 1853c . . . in the heart also resides charity, the source of the good and pure works, which sin wounds.
St. Thomas Aquinas this way . . . .
ST. THOMAS AQUINAS “Charity is the form, mover, mother, and root of all the virtues.”
Keep us posted of your discussions on this thread. We have probably all had similar discussions with family and/or other loved ones (so this touches upon our personal experience too).
- St. Thomas Aquinas
- Status
- Not open for further replies.