Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, Sola Gratia - the three solas of the Reformation. If there is a sola, there can’t be more than one, right? Protestants try to squeeze them all in.In an attempted to defend the dotrine “Sola Fide,” a commentary on James 2: 14-26 in a Protestant Bible I read said, “We are saved by faith alone, but faith don’t come alone.” What do they mean about that, because that does not sound like it comes close to the belief of being saved by faith alone?
What is meant by that is - we are saved by grace alone through faith in Christ. A live, saving faith must have works. The works do not save, the faith does.In an attempted to defend the dotrine “Sola Fide,” a commentary on James 2: 14-26 in a Protestant Bible I read said, “We are saved by faith alone, but faith don’t come alone.” What do they mean about that, because that does not sound like it comes close to the belief of being saved by faith alone?
How does faith become dead? Even if we once had a living faith, we can choose to reject Christ. Repeated, unrepented sin will eventually drive the Holy Spirit, leaving us with a dead faith.15.In faith we together hold the conviction that justification is the work of the triune God. The Father sent his Son into the world to save sinners. The foundation and presupposition of justification is the incarnation, death, and resurrection of Christ. Justification thus means that Christ himself is our righteousness, in which we share through the Holy Spirit in accord with the will of the Father. Together we confess: By grace alone, in faith in Christ’s saving work and not because of any merit on our part, we are accepted by God and receive the Holy Spirit, who renews our hearts while equipping and calling us to good works
Actually, I thought that the Catholic Church accepts sola gracia - that our salvation is entirely grace alone, that faith and works both are the result of grace.Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, Sola Gratia - the three solas of the Reformation. If there is a sola, there can’t be more than one, right? Protestants try to squeeze them all in.
Anyway, faith alone is in the Bible:
In James 2:24 it says…“so it is not by faith alone”
Okay, I like your points, but I am still a little bit confuse. You said a live, saving faith must have works, but the works don’t save. At the same time you said if fait don’t have works it is not a saving faith. How come you say that works don’t save a person, but it is needed to have saving faith? If we are save by faith alone, then it doesn’t need anything to follow it because the faith can do it by itself.What is meant by that is - we are saved by grace alone through faith in Christ. A live, saving faith must have works. The works do not save, the faith does.
I watched to the video that WesleyF offered and completely agreed with him, except that he seems to want to insist that we believe that even a dead faith saves. Just as a dead body has no spirit, a dead faith has no works, and is therefore not a saving faith.
Sola fide, in its narrow sense, is the way we come to justification. The Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification makes this clear.
How does faith become dead? Even if we once had a living faith, we can choose to reject Christ. Repeated, unrepented sin will eventually drive the Holy Spirit, leaving us with a dead faith.
Sola fide only says that we cannot come to justification by our own works or merit, but that juustification is the work of the triune God.
When Luther says that we are justified by faith alone, but faith is never alone, it is recognition that justification requires obedience to Christ’s commands, and that sanctification must also be present.
Jon
I did get that from the NIV, but I can’t tell if they mistranslated.Which version is that? In the NIV which is used by Protestants and some Catholics this is what your verse says:
It is a recognition that only the efforts of Christ brings about salvation. We come to justification by grace through faith. In obedience to the One who saves us, we do what Christ commands, not because it is our works that save, but out of joyful thanksgiving, what the confessions call “new obedience”.=vwtaylorii;6879285]Okay, I like your points, but I am still a little bit confuse. You said a live, saving faith must have works, but the works don’t save. At the same time you said if fait don’t have works it is not a saving faith. How come you say that works don’t save a person, but it is needed to have saving faith? If we are save by faith alone, then it doesn’t need anything to follow it because the faith can do it by itself.
Article VI: Of New Obedience.
The term “bound”, here, means obliged.1] Also they teach that this faith is bound to bring forth good fruits, and that it is necessary to do good works commanded by God, because of God’s will, but that we should not rely on those works to merit justification 2] before God. For remission of sins and justification is apprehended by faith, as also the voice of Christ attests: When ye shall have done all these things, say: We are unprofitable servants. Luke 17:10. The same is also taught by 3] the Fathers. For Ambrose says: It is ordained of God that he who believes in Christ is saved, freely receiving remission of sins, without works, by faith alone.
[bookofconcord.org/fc-ep.php#IV. Good Works.](http://www.bookofconcord.org/fc-ep.php#IV. Good Works.)
- Accordingly, we also believe, teach, and confess that when it is said: The regenerate do good works from a free spirit, this is not to be understood as though it is at the option of the regenerate man to do or to forbear doing good when he wishes, and **that he can nevertheless retain faith if he intentionally perseveres in sins. **
12] 7. Yet this is not to be understood otherwise than as the Lord Christ and His apostles themselves declare, namely, regarding the liberated spirit, that it does not do this from fear of punishment, like a servant, but from love of righteousness, like children, Rom. 8:15.
The confessions speak of a tree and its fruit. The fruit does not make a tree alive, but it is evidence that it is alive. Lutherans make a distinction between God’s work (justification as monergistic), and our works (sanctification as synergistic). Obedience is a work, evidence that we are justified by grace through faith, faith that we have received because of grace.Also, how come works don’t play a role when you said justification require obedience to Christ commands? Wouldn’t that be considered a work?
Abraham’s works were his response to faith, his sanctification. Faith must be active.In addition, does James show that works do play a role when he said Abraham was justified by works and not by faith alone (2: 24) and that Abraham works was active with his faith and those type of works made his faith perfect (2: 22 KJB)?
While I see where you are coming from, I dont completely agree with the doctrine of sola fide(among other sola doctrines). First and foremost, to come up with a logical determination of the doctrine according to you good works is a response to true faith…So if we take the reverse the logic, would that mean that if I dont do good works, is my faith not true in the first place? Or if justification by faith alone is true, then wouldnt I just understand all mysteries and gather all knowledge to support my faith, and not worry about charity or good works?Abraham’s works were his response to faith, his sanctification. Faith must be active.
Jon
Not necessarily, because Lutherans recognize free will. I have free will to reject Christ, even after having received it.=SamDC;6881236]While I see where you are coming from, I dont completely agree with the doctrine of sola fide(among other sola doctrines). First and foremost, to come up with a logical determination of the doctrine according to you good works is a response to true faith…So if we take the reverse the logic, would that mean that if I dont do good works, is my faith not true in the first place? Or if justification by faith alone is true, then wouldnt I just understand all mysteries and gather all knowledge to support my faith, and not worry about charity or good works?
I would agree with the bolded part. Luther said: “There is no justification without sanctification, no forgiveness without renewal of life, no real faith from which the fruits of new obedience do not grow.” As I said earlier, we make a distinction between justification (what God does - justified by grace alone through faith), and our respone to it -The catholic church does teach justification by faith but it does NOT teach justification by faith alone. I believe that faith is the foundation on which salvation stands but faith alone is not what is used for justification. We need to follow it up consciously with good works. Faith makes salvation possible but justification by faith alone is not right because if we didnt follow our faith with good works, then our faith is rather useless.
The verse about Abraham is most commonly used to defend sola fide. In the verse, Paul specifies that Abraham was justified by faith before he was circumcised (Rom. 4:10-12). However, nowhere does Paul say that Abraham’s faith operated alone in his justification. If you look up Hebrews and Genesis, you will see that Abrahams faith was active along with his works and in fact his faith was completed by his works. A good example is when he offered his son Issac upon the altar. It was his faith working with charitable obedience. God promises Abraham, “Because you have done this, and have not withheld your son, your only son, I will indeed bless you…. because you have obeyed My Voice” (Gen. 22:16-18)
Maybe, Sam, this article by James Akin might help.Though faith forms the foundation for justification, faith alone in itself can never be sufficient. We will need to consciously make an effort to do good works and be obedient to God’s will. Faith alone cannot take us to where God wants us to go. The whole passage that is written by Paul in Romans must be read in its entirety to understand what paul is trying to say(Read Rom 3:10-23)
Maybe, Sam, this article by James Akin might help.Not necessarily, because Lutherans recognize free will. I have free will to reject Christ, even after having received it.
May God continue to bless you through word and sacrament in the Catholic Church.=SamDC;6881602]Thanks for your post Jon. Before I respond to your post let me tell you that I was raised a catholic and when I was 21 I went to a number of different churches for about 10 years before eventually returned to the Catholic church for a number of reasons. Im saying this just so you know where I come from and what my understanding is
Clearly, obedience to His word is required of all Christians. Failure to be obedient (sin) is why we have confession / Holy Absolution. But continue and unrepented sin soon leads to loss faith, or may indeed be evidence of no faith.So you do agree that faith and works are independent of one another. If Abraham with his free will had rejected Gods will and not offered Issac upon the altar would he still be called righteous? Would his faith have changed in anyway? How then would he be justified?
On a number of occasions, Paul insists that the just shall live by faith. Romans 3, Ephesians, etc. James, on the other hand, makes it clear that a live, saving faith is bound to have works. "But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works."So how would you define faith and works in these passages that Paul has written? Faith can be translated differently in some other verses but in the context that you brought up there is a definite distinction between faith and works and one doesnt necessarily follow another or one is not a subset of another. If that were so, then why is that Paul never says we’re justified by faith alone and James does say we aren’t justified by faith alone, but by faith and works.
I wouldn’t concede that what I have said, what the Lutheran Confessions say, contradicts James at all. What Protestants say, on the other hand, is up to them.So why do Protestants have a doctrine that contradicts what James said and uses something that Paul never said to support it?
Yes, Lutherans believe that once justified by grace through faith, one can, as you say, fall from grace, and then again through repentance, return to faith.Im sure you must have got this question before. Can you fall from grace then? And if so, then how do you get it back? How would you define real faith then?
At least in terms of the Lutheran teaching of sola fide, I have helped you at least understand this better, even if you still disagree. There are Protestants who perceive it differently, and I’d say, wrongly.Like I said I understand where you are coming from and agree with you to an extent. The reason Im asking you these questions is because I have tried to research what the sola doctrines are teaching and I have asked myself these same questions over so many years. And no matter how I tried to look at his I have not been able to find an answer that could convince me that there is sound biblical evidence for these doctrines.
My pleasure,Thanks again for your response
I couldnt agree with you more. Like Danto pointed out earlier, the catholic view of faith is an intellectual belief which makes it necessary to define justification by faith as well as justification by works as a response to faith. Eventually we are sailing in the same boat. Both of us are trying to establish what our faith is and what we do with that faith."But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works."
And I as a Lutheran agree. How else do I show my faith than by good deeds?
Jon
Hi Sam,Thanks again for your response Jon.
I couldnt agree with you more. Like Danto pointed out earlier, the catholic view of faith is an intellectual belief which makes it necessary to define justification by faith as well as justification by works as a response to faith. Eventually we are sailing in the same boat. Both of us are trying to establish what our faith is and what we do with that faith.
I guess the major part of disagreement is in translation of how faith is defined. And the article that you posted does help someone who does not understand one or either of these views to gain a better understanding of one another. Though we would like to define faith a little differently, the Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification, was a big step in unifying us and I pray that we are united together in every way possible soon.
God bless you
Sam
I think, you have read the context of the letter to Melanchthon. Once you do, you’ll find that Luther’s definition of sola fide is essnetially as I’ve offered here. But I understand the Catholic’s distrust of the term.The problem with the term sola Fide is that it means different things to different people.
When Jon says that you need a saving faith that is demonstrated by works to be real, we can agree with that because then it is simply a semantical argument because both sides agree that both faith and works are required and probably both sides would agree that for works to have any benefit, they must be preceeded by faith. In other words, you must do the works out of love, not because they will give you any tangible benefit in return.
The problem is that not every Protestant views Sola fide as Jon does. In fact, Martin Luther himself views it differently, as demonstrated by his famous quote: Be a sinner, and let your sins be strong (sin boldly), but let your trust in Christ be stronger, and rejoice in Christ who is the victor over sin, death, and the world.
Its a very slippery slope. When some people hear the term Faith Alone, they feel that their actions are insignificant and they can sin as much as they want as long as they have faith in Jesus’ mercy. We’ve all heard people say that they’ve prayed the sinner’s prayer and are now saved forever, no matter what they do. When Luther said to sin boldly, it certainly gives credence to such a view. And this keeps the misinformed from pursuing the grace , love, and holiness that really save and leads directly to condemnation. This is why Catholics find the “solas” so disturbing.
No. You need to avoid and, when necessary, repent sin. Failure to do His commands is sin. Any kind of sin has the effect of driving out faith, if it is repeated and unrepented.=vwtaylorii;6882107]That tree and fruit analogy doesn’t seem to fit to what you are saying nor what James 2 is saying. You are saying that fruits are evidence, but does not make a tree alive. At the same time, you need to do the good works so the faith won’t be driven out. That sounds like works is needed to keep the faith alive.