Sola Fide..................

[Eleve]

Protestants believe in imputed righeousness. Catholics believe in infused righteousness.

Naturally, I’m aware that there are differences, but you said that they are completely different. The rather lengthy document which I linked suggests otherwise.

 

[SacredHeart1987]

Naturally, I’m aware that there are differences, but you said that they are completely different. The rather lengthy document which I linked suggests otherwise.

I know what my Church teaches and we believe in infused righteousness which is completely different from imputed righteousness. Catholic theology teaches that God prompts the individual to seek for justification through the action of actual grace. God requires that man respond to and cooperate with his grace in order to receive salvation. Once justified, man continues to cooperate with God within the realm of grace, but that justification can be lost if man falls into a state of mortal sin.

The Protestant concept of justification teaches that by an act of faith man is credited or imputed with the alien righteousness of Christ. Although there are many views of justification among Protestant denominations, Protestants understand justification as an extrinsic legal act of God which does not involve any transformation of the individual’s inner nature. They reserve the inner change of the individual for the area of sanctification. Protestants also falsely separate faith from repentance in order to maintain the stance that no works are required for justification. They’re theory of legal imputation does not offer any adequate answers as to why God requires faith from the individual in order to attain justification, nor does it adequately explain why God requires a certain quality of faith. Some Protestants understand faith as a condition for justification, others do not.

 

[mbgumby28]

Revelation 20:15 and Matthew 25:31-46 are downright against Sola Fide.

 

[workingman]

Where do Protestants get the idea of “Faith Alone”? From what I know they claim to get it from the Bible, yet the Bible seems to be horribly against “Sola Fide”.

Since one asks where this comes from. This is a good basis especialy from a Lutheran persepective.
Article IV: Of Justification.
1] Also they teach that men cannot be justified before God by their own strength, merits, or works, but
are freely justified for 2] Christ’s sake, through faith, when they believe that they are received into favor,
and that their sins are forgiven for Christ’s sake, who, by His death, has made satisfaction for our sins. 3]
This faith God imputes for righteousness in His sight. Rom. 3 and 4.

Article IX: Of Baptism.
1] Of Baptism they teach that it is necessary 2] to salvation, and that through Baptism is offered the grace
of God, and that children are to be baptized who, being offered to God through Baptism are received into
God’s grace.
3] They condemn the Anabaptists, who reject the baptism of children, and say that children are saved without Baptism.

(source for above came from concordialutheranconf.com/doctrine/trig.pdf)

You see mbgumby28 It is what also is set forth as a sacrament from Christ that is also considered necessary to be saved, but if it is not set out by Christ it is not necessary. As for the good works they will flow from one if they are truly saved. Faith and good works go hand in hand.

 

[SyCarl]

The Protestant concept of justification teaches that by an act of faith man is credited or imputed with the alien righteousness of Christ. Although there are many views of justification among Protestant denominations, Protestants understand justification as an extrinsic legal act of God which does not involve any transformation of the individual’s inner nature. They reserve the inner change of the individual for the area of sanctification. Protestants also falsely separate faith from repentance in order to maintain the stance that no works are required for justification. They’re theory of legal imputation does not offer any adequate answers as to why God requires faith from the individual in order to attain justification, nor does it adequately explain why God requires a certain quality of faith. Some Protestants understand faith as a condition for justification, others do not.

It is wrong to say that Protestants deny an inner transformation takes place except in sanctification. It is impossible to speak for all Protestant views but salvation is seen as having a number parts. These are regeneration, justification, sanctification and glorification. Confusion exists among some Catholics who do not separate these things.

Regeneration is being born again. In it we are cleansed from our sins and given a new spirit. By this rebirth we are made free from our slavery to sin and become capable of wanting to serve and please God. This is an infusion and an inner transformation. However, although we become capable of pursuing righteousness, we are not completely righteous. This is because we are still capable of sinning and must fight continually against the remains of our old sinful nature.

Justification is a forensic judgment of righteousness. It is imputed because we are not totally free from all taint of sin and therefore perfectly righteous. If we were perfectly righteous we would not have a remaining capacity for sin. This imputation is necessary because without it we could not do anything truly pleasing to God who requires perfection.

Because we are viewed as righteous, we can proceed with our sanctification whereby we actually strive to be righteous. This is where we work out our salvation as we struggle to be holy against the sinful nature that remains within it. Because we are viewed as righteous, our works in sanctification are truly pleasing to God. However, we are never completely righteous in this life.

Glorification comes after this life when the last of old sinful self is done away with and we truly are holy.

This view of salvation takes into account the realities as they are seen in practice. We are changed but not made perfect. Righteousness is imputed so we can work at pleasing God.

Our incomplete righteousness in this life is recognized by church fathers like Augustine who wrote:

Therefore the first commandment about righteousness, which bids us love the Lord with all our heart, and soul, and mind (the next to which is, that we love our neighbour as ourselves), we shall completely fulfil in that life when we shall see face to face. But even now this commandment is enjoined upon us, that we may be reminded what we ought by faith to require, and what we should in our hope look forward to, and, “forgetting the things which are behind, reach forth to the things which are before.” And thus, as it appears to me, that man has made a far advance, even in the present life, in the righteousness which is to be perfected hereafter, who has discovered by this very advance how very far removed he is from the completion of righteousness.

Forasmuch, however, as an inferior righteousness may be said to be competent to this life, whereby the just man lives by faith, although absent from the Lord, and, therefore, walking by faith and not yet by sight,—it may be without absurdity said, no doubt, in respect of it, that it is free from sin; for it ought not to be attributed to it as a fault, that it is not as yet sufficient for so great a love to God as is due to the final, complete, and perfect condition thereof….And do they prove this to be wrong which is written, “In Thy sight shall no man living be justified?” and this: “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us?” and, “There is no man that sinneth not;” and again, “There is not on the earth a righteous man, who doeth good and sinneth not” (for both these statements are expressed in a general future sense,—“sinneth not,” “will not sin,”—not in the past time, “has not sinned”)?—and all other places of this purport contained in the Holy Scripture? Since, however, these passages cannot possibly be false, it plainly follows, to my mind, that whatever be the quality or extent of the righteousness which we may definitely ascribe to the present life, there is not a man living in it who is absolutely free from all sin; and that it is necessary for every one to give, that it may be given to him; and to forgive, that it may be forgiven him; and whatever righteousness he has, not to presume that he has it of himself, but from the grace of God, who justifies him, and still to go on hungering and thirsting for righteousness from Him who is the living bread, and with whom is the fountain of life; who works in His saints, whilst labouring amidst temptation in this life, their justification in such manner that He may still have somewhat to impart to them liberally when they ask, and something mercifully to forgive them when they confess.

Augustine (On the Spirit and the Letter, Chapters 64-65)
newadvent.org/fathers/1502.htm

 

[workingman]

Revelation 20:15 and Matthew 25:31-46 are downright against Sola Fide.

Matthew 25:31-46
These are most definatly all good works, but in and of them them self will not give you salvation. These are a product of Salvation. God in these verses were obviously separating obedient followers from pretenders and unbelievers.

Revelation 20:15
What does ones name not being in the book of life and being throwen into the lake of fire have to do with Sola Fide?

p.s. I am a Catholic

 

[musicality]

I’m absolutely baffled as to how Protestants can ignore James 2. It says the following:
James 2:14-25 RSV Translation:

What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?
If a brother or sister is ill-clad and in lack of daily food,
and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what does it profit?
So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.
But some one will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith.
You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe – and shudder.
Do you want to be shown, you shallow man, that faith apart from works is barren?
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works,
and the scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness”; and he was called the friend of God.
You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.
And in the same way was not also Rahab the harlot justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

I studied this passage with a bible study group, led by a protestant, and she and the other protestants actually started questioning themselves about the quote from Romans that they so often recite. I think this passage showed them something…

 

[workingman]

I’m absolutely baffled as to how Protestants can ignore James 2. It says the following:

I studied this passage with a bible study group, led by a protestant, and she and the other protestants actually started questioning themselves about the quote from Romans that they so often recite. I think this passage showed them something…

I probably am not the best to answere this as I am not Protestant any more. Though not that long ago I was a LCMS member. I did not ever ignor James 2 and we mite as well pin it a little more James2:21-26. Paul in Romans 4:1-5 and James 2:21-26 do not contradict each other but complement one another. We are not Justified by what we do in any way. True faith though will always resorte in good works. Faith brings us our salvation and active obedience and good works show our faith is genuine.

 

[SyCarl]

Revelation 20:15 and Matthew 25:31-46 are downright against Sola Fide.

James 2:24 is most often cited in opposition to faith alone. How can a Protestant reconcile James 2:24 with the belief that we are justified by faith alone? James tells us:

You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. (James 2:24 NASB)

First we should look at see what else James has to say about works. A few verses earlier he states:

Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered up Isaac his son on the altar? (James 2:21 NASB)

James seems to say that Abraham was justified by works. However, James is not the only biblical writer to deal with Abraham’s justification. In Roman 4:12 Paul says:

What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. (Romans 4:1-2 NASB)

Paul would seem to be contradicting James by saying that Abraham was not justified by works. Scripture does not contradict itself and, therefore, the two statements must be reconcilable. We can see that Paul does qualify his statement by saying that Abraham would not be justified before God by works. James doesn’t include this qualification so, if he is not to conflict with Paul he must be speaking about being justified before someone other than God, in other words he is speaking about being justified before man. It should be noted that Paul’s Letter to the Romans was written after James’ letter. It is therefore quite possible that Paul was writing to correct any misunderstandings that arose from James’ letter.

How does being justified before God and man differ? God knows what a man believes while one man cannot know what another truly believes. Therefore it is not enough to merely tell another that you have faith, you must show him you have faith. The evidence that you have faith are the works that you do. That this is the meaning of James’ words is shown by another part of the same passage.

But someone may well say, “You have faith and I have works; show me your faith without the works, and I will show you my faith by my works.” (James 2:18 NASB)

It is not necessary to show God anything to prove your faith since He already knows. However if I tell someone else I have faith, the only way he will know this is if I have the works to show it.

James also shows that when he is speaking of faith or belief, he is referring to an intellectual assent to a proposition rather the true faith that is defined elsewhere in the Bible. James can speak of demons believing.

You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder. (James 2:19 NASB)

Yet these demons would not have faith as defined by the writer of Hebrews who says:

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. (Hebrews 11:1 NASB)

The demons would have the conviction of the things not seen, but they would not hope for them as someone who has Christian faith would.

Works are not only the evidence of our faith; they are the natural and necessary consequence of that faith. Paul clearly differentiates between faith and works when, in Ephesians, he tells us that we are not saved by works, but we are saved for works.

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. (Ephesians 2:8-10 NASB)

Jesus tells us that we should not expect a reward for our works since we already owe God all the God works we could possibly do.

"He does not thank the slave because he did the things which were commanded, does he? “So you too, when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, ‘We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.’”
(Luke 17:9-10 NASB)

What then about statements that we will be judged according to our works? There is a difference between being judged according to our works and being saved by our works. Being judged according to our works is the same as saying we will be judged according to the evidence. It has nothing to do with the fact of whether we are saved or not; just as the evidence in a murder trial does not make the accused guilty or not. A person is either guilty or not guilty before any evidence is introduced. The evidence just shows that the verdict is the right one. God does not need evidence since He knows the truth but we are told that he will not only be just but He will also display His righteousness.

…whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. (Romans 3:25-26 NASB)

God will be right in his judgment and we will be shown that He is right because of the evidence of good works.

This is further shown when Jesus says to judge a tree by its fruit.

"You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? "So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. "So then, you will know them by their fruits.
(Matthew 7:16-20 NASB)

The fruit does not make the tree good or bad but shows what type of tree it is.
(to be continued)

 

[SyCarl]

(continued)
Many of the early church fathers had no problem in using the language of faith alone and of works being evidence of faith, while at the same time stressing good works.

For the name of Faith is in the form of speech one, but has two distinct senses. For there is one kind of faith, the dogmatic, involving an assent of the soul on some particular point: and it is profitable to the soul, as the Lord says: He that hears My words, and believes Him that sent Me, has everlasting life, and comes not into judgment: and again, He that believes in the Son is not judged, but has passed from death unto life. Oh the great loving-kindness of God! For the righteous were many years in pleasing Him: but what they succeeded in gaining by many years of well-pleasing, this Jesus now bestows on you in a single hour. **For if you shall believe that Jesus Christ is Lord, and that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved, and shall be transported into Paradise by Him who brought in thither the robber. And doubt not whether it is possible; for He who on this sacred Golgotha saved the robber after one single hour of belief, the same shall save you also on your believing **

Cyril of Jerusalem (Catechetical Lectures, Lecture 5, Paragraph 10)
newadvent.org/fathers/310105.htm

“Having now to the best of my ability, and as I think sufficiently, replied to the reasonings of this author, if I be asked what is my own opinion in this matter, I answer, after carefully pondering the question, that in the Gospels and Epistles, and the entire collection of books for our instruction called the New Testament, I see that fasting is enjoined. But I do not discover any rule definitely laid down by the Lord or by the apostles as to days on which we ought or ought not to fast. And by this I am persuaded that exemption from fasting on the seventh day is more suitable, not indeed to obtain, but to foreshadow, that eternal rest in which the true Sabbath is realized, and which is obtained only by faith, and by that righteousness whereby the daughter of the King is all glorious within.”

Augustine (Letters, Letter 36, Paragraph 25)
ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf101.vii.1.XXXVI.html

And we, too, being called by His will in Christ Jesus, are not justified by ourselves, nor by our own wisdom, or understanding, or godliness, or works which we have wrought in holiness of heart; but by that faith through which, from the beginning, Almighty God has justified all men; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Clement of Rome (Epistle to the Corinthians, Chapter 32)
newadvent.org/fathers/1010.htm

What can we say to those who insist that Abraham was justified by works because he was ready to sacrifice his son Isaac on the altar? Abraham was already an old man when God promised him that he would have a son and that his descendants would be as countless as the stars of the sky. Abraham piously believed that all things are possible with God and so exercised this faith. God reckoned him to be righteous on this account and gave Abraham a reward worthy of such a godly mind, viz., the forgiveness of his previous sins…So even if Abraham was also justified by his willingness to sacrifice Isaac, this must be regarded as an evident demonstration of a faith which was already very strong.

Cyril of Alexandria (Explanation of the Letter to the Romans (Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament VI: Romans (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1998), p. 106.))

The righteousness of God is not revealed to everyone but only to those with the eyes of faith. For the holy apostle teaches us that God foresaw this for us from the beginning and predicted it through the prophets, and even before the prophets, had it hidden in his secret will. Paul quoted Habakkuk for the benefit of the Jews, because he wanted to teach them not to cling to the provisions of the law but to follow the prophets. For many centuries before they had predicted that one day there would be salvation by faith alone. Then departing from his admonition to the Jews, he accuses everyone else of having brazenly departed from the natural law which the Creator had placed in them. For when God made them, he did not allow them to live like beasts but honoured them with reason and gave them the ability to know the difference between good and evil. Those who lived righteous lives before the time of Moses confirm this by their witness.

Theodret (Interpretation of the Letter to the Romans Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament VI: Romans (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1998), p. 31.)

(to be continued)

 

[SyCarl]

(continued)

But after saying that “it was excluded,” he shows also, how. How then does he say it was excluded? “By what law? of works? Nay, but by the law of faith.” See he calls the faith also a law delighting to keep to the names, and so allay the seeming novelty. But what is the “law of faith?” It is, being saved by grace. Here he shows God’s power, in that He has not only saved, but has even justified, and led them to boasting, and this too without needing works, but looking for faith only.

John Chrysostom, (Homilies on Romans, Homily 7)
newadvent.org/fathers/210207.htm

What was the object of the Law and what the scope of all its enactments? Why, to make man righteous. But this it had no power to do. “For all,” it says, “have sinned:” but faith when it came accomplished it. For when a man is once a believer, he is straightway justified.

John Chrysostom, (Homilies on Romans, Homily 7)
newadvent.org/fathers/210207.htm

For as men, upon receiving some great good, ask themselves if it is not a dream, as not believing it; so it is with respect to the gifts of God. What then was it that was thought incredible? That those who were enemies, and sinners, neither justified by the law, nor by works, should immediately through faith alone be advanced to the highest favor…Against this he contends; for it seemed to them incredible, that a man who had mis-spent all his former life in vain and wicked actions, should afterwards be saved by his faith alone. On this account he says, “It is a saying to be believed.”

John Chrysostom. (Homilies on 1 Timothy, Homily 4)
ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf113.v.iii.v.html

They said that he who kept not the Law was cursed, but he proves that he who kept it was cursed, and he who kept it not, blessed. Again, they said that he who adhered to Faith alone was cursed, but he shows that he who adhered to Faith alone, is blessed

John Chrysostom (Homilies on Galatians, Homily 3, Verse 8)
newadvent.org/fathers/23103.htm

“And the Law is not of faith; but He that does them shall live in them.”…For the Law requires not only Faith but works also, but grace saves and justifies by Faith.

John Chrysostom (Homilies on Galatians, Homily 3, Verse 12)
newadvent.org/fathers/23103.htm

For he makes a wide distinction between “commandments” and “ordinances.” He either then means “faith,” calling that an “ordinance,” (for by faith alone He saved us,) or he means “precept,” such as Christ gave, when He said, “But I say unto you, that you are not to be angry at all.”

John Chrysostom (Homilies on Ephesians, Homily 5)
newadvent.org/fathers/230105.htm

Everywhere he puts the Gentiles upon a thorough equality. “And put no difference between us and them, having purified their hearts by faith.” **From faith alone, he says, they obtained the same gifts. **This is also meant as a lesson to those (objectors); this is able to teach even them that faith only is needed, not works nor circumcision.

John Chrysostom, (Commentary on the Acts of the Apostles, Homily 32)
ccel.org/ccel/schaff/npnf111.vi.xxxii.html

Paul says that the promise given to Abraham that he should inherit the world did not come from the law but by faith, which was reckoned to him as righteousness. It doubtless follows **that everyone who hopes that God’s righteousness will be imputed to him hopes by faith **and not by the law.

Origen (Commentary on the Epistle to the Romans (Commentary on the Epistle to the Romans, Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament VI: Romans (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1998), p. 114.))

It remains for us who are trying to affirm everything the apostle says, and to do so in the proper order, to inquire who is justified by faith alone, apart from works. If an example is required, I think it must suffice to mention the thief on the cross, who asked Christ to save him and was told: “Truly. This day you will be with me in paradise…A man is justified by faith. The works of the law can make no contribution to this. Where there is no faith which might justify the believer, even if there are works of the law these are not based on the foundation of faith. Even if they are good in themselves they cannot justify the one who does them, because faith is lacking, and faith is the mark of those who are justified by God.

Origen (Commentary on the Epistle to the Romans Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament VI: Romans (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1998), p. 100))

(to be continued)

 

[SyCarl]

(continued)

“God has decreed that a person who believes in Christ can be saved without works. By faith alone he receives the forgiveness of sins.”

Ambrosiaster (Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament VII: 1-2 Corinthians (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1999), p. 6.)

“They are justified freely because they have not done anything nor given anything in return, but by faith alone they have been made holy by the gift of God. Paul testifies that the grace of God is in Christ, because we have been redeemed by Christ according to the will of God so that once set free we may be justified, as he says to the Galatians: “Christ redeemed us by offering himself for us.” For he achieved this despite the fierce attacks of the devil, who was outwitted. For the devil received Christ (in hell) thinking that he could hold him there, but because he could not withstand his power he lost not only Christ but all those whom he held at the same time.”

Ambrosiaster ((Commentary on Paul’s Epistles Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament VI: Romans (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1998), p. 97.))

“This refers to somebody who is bound by sin and who therefore does not do what the law commands. Paul says this because to an ungodly person, that is to a Gentile, who believes in Christ without doing the works of the law, his faith is reckoned for righteousness just as Abraham’s was. How then can the Jews think that they have been justified by the works of the law in the same way as Abraham, when they see that Abraham was not justified by the works of the law but by faith alone? Therefore there is no need of the law when the ungodly is justified before God by faith alone.”

Ambrosiaster (Commentary on Paul’s Epistles (Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament VI: Romans (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1998), p. 108.))

“Paul backs this up by the example of the prophet David, who says that those are blessed of whom God has decreed that, without work or any keeping of the law, **they are justified before God by faith alone. **Therefore he foretells the blessedness of the time when Christ was born, just as the Lord himself said: “Many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see and to hear what you hear and did not hear it””

Ambrosiaster (Commentary on Paul’s Epistles (Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament VI: Romans (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1998), p. 109.))

Every mystery which is enacted by our Lord Jesus Christ asks only for faith. The mystery was enacted at that time for our sake and aimed at our resurrection and liberation, should we have faith in the mystery of Christ and in Christ. For the patriarchs prefigured and foretold that man would be justified from faith. Therefore, just as it was reckoned as righteousness to Abraham that he had faith, so we too, if we have faith in Christ and every mystery of his, will be sons of Abraham. Our whole life will be accounted as righteous.

Marius Victorinus (Epistle to the Galatians, 1.3.7. Mark J. Edwards, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament VI: Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 1998), p. 39.)

“Abraham is the image of someone who is justified by faith alone, since what he believed was credited to him as righteousness. But he is also approved because of his works, since he offered up his son Isaac on the altar. Of course he did not do this work by itself; in doing it, he remained firmly anchored in his faith, believing that through Isaac his seed would be multiplied until it was as numerous as the stars.”

Oecumenius (Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture: New Testament, Vol. XI, James, 1-2 Peter, 1-3 John, Jude (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 2000), p. 33.)

Abraham had such a vibrant faith in God that he was ready to do whatever God wanted him to. This is why his faith was reckoned to him as righteousness, and it was in order that we might know the full meaning of this that God ordered Abraham to sacrifice his son. It was by his perfect accomplishment of God’s command that the faith which he had in his heart was shown to be perfect. .

Bede (Concerning the Epistle of James) (Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament XI: James, 1-2 Peter, 1-3 John, Jude (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 2000), p. 32.)

Good works are witnesses to the Christian faith, otherwise a Christian cannot prove that he has that faith. If he cannot prove it, it must be considered completely nonexistent.

Salvian the Presbyter (On the Goverance of God 4.2 Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament XI: James, 1-2 Peter, 1-3 John, Jude (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 2000), p. 30.)

If someone does not show by his deeds that he believes in God, his profession of faith is worthless. For it is not the one who just says that he is the Lord’s who is a believer, but the one who loves the Lord so much that he is prepared to risk even death because of his faith in Him.

Andreas (Catena, Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament XI: James, 1-2 Peter, 1-3 John, Jude (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 2000), p. 28.)

Faith is shown by deeds like the features of the face in a mirror.

Symeon the New Theologian (Discourses 29.4, Gerald Bray, ed., Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, New Testament XI: James, 1-2 Peter, 1-3 John, Jude (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 2000), p. 30.)

 

[workingman]

SyCarl, Lengthy answere. I at this point do not dissagree with you. If I am catching what you are saying is faith=good works and not good works=faith am I corrrect?

 

[East_Anglican]

Protestants believe in imputed righeousness. Catholics believe in infused righteousness.

Huh?

 

[mbgumby28]

Matthew 25:31-46
These are most definatly all good works, but in and of them them self will not give you salvation. These are a product of Salvation. God in these verses were obviously separating obedient followers from pretenders and unbelievers.

Revelation 20:15
What does ones name not being in the book of life and being throwen into the lake of fire have to do with Sola Fide?

p.s. I am a Catholic

Matthew 25:31-46 tells us that we do need to do good works. The people on the keft were being sent to hell because they failed to do good works.

Oops, I meant to say Revelation 20:11-15, which tells of how the dead will be judged according to their deeds.

 

[workingman]

mbgumby28

Matthew 25:31-46 tells us that we do need to do good works. The people on the keft were being sent to hell because they failed to do good works.

Oops, I meant to say Revelation 20:11-15, which tells of how the dead will be judged according to their deeds.

Hello mbgumby28, ok I have now read bolth completely. Yes bolth do talk about good works being necessary. The only thing I will say is the good works do not give you Salvation. Salvation produces good works. We in and of our selves in our sinful human nature our incapable of producing good works without the help of God.

 

[O.S.Luke]

Our view of salvation is completely different from the protestants.

I think you would be more accurate if you said, “Our view of salvation is different from SOME protestants.” Imputed righteousness is Lutheran/Reformed. Not all Protestants are Lutheran/Reformed, most notably Anglicans and Methodists, which would embrace more of an understanding of imparted righteousness. In the Anglican/Methodist understanding, salvation is a journey.

 

[workingman]

Can we get a deffinition of the following.

imputed righeousness and infused righteousness. I don’t think I am the only one

 

[DLClark]

So are you saying that of a man has faith and doesn’t do a single good work in his life, he will be saved?

You reading your ideas of works into what I have said. I never said that a saved person should not do good works. Good works should and do justify the saved before man. This is what James is talking about. Works have place in the Gospel of salvation. They do in the Christian life after salvation. Notice what Titus tells us about salvation and works. Titus 3:8

8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have **believed in God **might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
KJV

The Bible tells those who are saved to put their faith into practice. One must have saving faith first before he can demonstrate it. We don’t do good works to keep ourselves saved. God does that for us, John 10:27-29. We do good works because we are caommanded to do them after salvation, and to show our faith to others.

 

[workingman]

Catholics like to say one must do good works for salvation and Protestants will say according to some no good works are nec. Most will tell you though that good works are a product of salvation. Let me demonstrate how simple a good work is.

I changed my childs dirty diper today. This is a good work. Why would this posibly be a good work? God commands it. Where? Ephesians 6:4; And now a word to you fathers. Don’t make your children angry by the way you treat them. Rather, bring them up with the discipline and instruction approved by the Lord. If I were not to change my childs diaper this would anger them and possibly in the long run hurt them. This would clearly violate God’s command about angering my children.

Now does doing this good work earn me salvation? No! I am simply following what God commands us throught the Bible to do.