Sola scriptora, the apostles creed and confirmation

[Adamski]

After mass I went to an evangelical church with my non catholic wife

They say the apostles creed and it says “decended into hell”

Where is that in the bible according to Protestants I don’t think it’s in the bible

They also had thier confirmation completed at that church service
(they baptize at 8 and confirm at 13)

How do they have confirmation with no bishop and no laying on of hands since that’s the bible way?

 

[FabiusMaximus]

After mass I went to an evangelical church with my non catholic wife

They say the apostles creed and it says “decended into hell”

Where is that in the bible according to Protestants I don’t think it’s in the bible

They also had thier confirmation completed at that church service
(they baptize at 8 and confirm at 13)

How do they have confirmation with no bishop and no laying on of hands since that’s the bible way?

There is no such thing as confirmation in an Evangelical church. Could you perhaps explain what you saw?

 

[Nicea325]

After mass I went to an evangelical church with my non catholic wife

They say the apostles creed and it says “decended into hell”

Where is that in the bible according to Protestants I don’t think it’s in the bible

They also had thier confirmation completed at that church service
(they baptize at 8 and confirm at 13)

How do they have confirmation with no bishop and no laying on of hands since that’s the bible way?

Remember Jesus descended to the place of the dead,not the place of tormented souls. Confirmation is not valid.

 

[centerbe]

Our catholic raised daughter joined the church of her future husband; the Canadian Reformed Church. We attended her “confirmation” into this church. This was done during the morning service and was referred to as their “Public Profession of Faith”. There was 9 young adults who completed this profession of faith. This allows them to participate in the Lord’s Supper which is held during their Sunday afternoon service. There was no laying of hands on anyone by the minister. I have never attended a protestant service in my life and the whole experience was strange for me.

 

[ltwin]

After mass I went to an evangelical church with my non catholic wife

They say the apostles creed and it says “decended into hell”

Where is that in the bible according to Protestants I don’t think it’s in the bible

While 1 Peter 3:18-20 is an ambiguous verse, most believe it refers to Jesus going to Hades, the place of the dead.

For Christ also suffered once for sins, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit, in which he went and proclaimed to the spirits in prison, because they formerly did not obey, when God’s patience waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through water.

They also had thier confirmation completed at that church service
(they baptize at 8 and confirm at 13)

How do they have confirmation with no bishop and no laying on of hands since that’s the bible way?

Huh? This doesn’t make sense to me. Unless they are evangelical Anglican or evangelical Methodist, they should not be practicing confirmation. And if they were Anglican or Methodist, they would be having infant baptisms.

Do you know the exact name and type of church you went to?

Was it some type of evangelical Reformed or Presbyterian church? But still, wouldn’t they practice infant baptism too?

You sure it wasn’t an Evangelical Lutheran Church? They aren’t really “evangelical” (as in part of Evangelicalism). This would explain the liturgical atmosphere.

 

[Adamski]

It’s called cascade covadent in north bend Washington

They also read what they called a benediction during the confirmation which
Sounded like a catholic non sola scriptora prayer

One thier web site it says
“we major on the majors and minor on the minors”. So I asked the pastor who decided what the majors and what the minors are. He didn’t have an answer

It kind of seems like a couple of fallen away Catholics who had a problem with a marriage issue dictate how the church is run

 

[awsiukiewicz]

Dear Adamski, a lot of Evangelical Protestant non denominational churches including but not limited to what they refer to as, ‘communion’ which I know happens in the LDS Church…the Lutheran Church.all 4 branches, the Methodist Church (United and otherwise) all have what they call Communion services…they can call it whatever they wish…none,of these churches have ministers that are in Apostolic Succession like the Catholic Church…I have friends who were Baptised Catholic…and for whatever reason, usually they didn’t like the Rules regarding the Sacrament of Marriage, have chosen to worship in a Protestant churches…I have had friends say they were Baptised into that church…I am more than flabergasted and share my feelings with them lovingly…My wife converted to Catholicism about 6 yrs before we met…she was raised United Methodist…her family still prayers for her since as they put it…she came over to the dark side…they don’t understand that we don’t miss Mass on Sunday…they get bothered when we visit them and we insist on going to Mass and not accompanying them to their worship service…I never argue with them…if they ask questions I answer them or look for the answer…Protestant churches can do whatever they wish and call it whatever they wish…I am proud to be Catholic and try to daily learn more about our Holy Church…respectively suggest that everyone else who has questions regarding protestant practices study what the Catholic Church teaches and lovingly convey our beliefs to our Protestant Bretheren…Pax

 

[ltwin]

It’s called cascade covadent in north bend Washington

Cascade Covenant Church of North Bend, Washington, is part of the Evangelical Covenant Church.

The Evangelical Covenant Church was founded by Swedish immigrants. They were pietist Lutherans. Today, the ECC church is broadly evangelical.

They also read what they called a benediction during the confirmation which
Sounded like a catholic non sola scriptora prayer

What is a “non sola scriptora” prayer? I had no idea that a prayer could be Sola Scriptura or non Sola Scriptura. Prayer is communication with God. To have a “Scripture Alone” prayer, we would have to have all our prayers come straight from the Bible. That is itself not Scriptural.

Sola Scriptura is the principle that tradition and theology should be subordinate to and judged by Holy Scripture. All tradition and all doctrine should align with Scripture.

Creating a man-made tradition that all prayers must come verbatim from the Bible would be a tradition with no foundation in God’s Holy Word.

One thier web site it says
“we major on the majors and minor on the minors”. So I asked the pastor who decided what the majors and what the minors are. He didn’t have an answer

Their denomination would determine what the majors are. If you’ve visited their website and was curious to know more, why didn’t you just go on over to the Evangelical Covenant Church website as advertised?

It kind of seems like a couple of fallen away Catholics who had a problem with a marriage issue dictate how the church is run

Wow. Sounds like you have them all figured out . . .

 

[Adamski]

Cascade Covenant Church of North Bend, Washington, is part of the Evangelical Covenant Church.

The Evangelical Covenant Church was founded by Swedish immigrants. They were pietist Lutherans. Today, the ECC church is broadly evangelical.

What is a “non sola scriptora” prayer? I had no idea that a prayer could be Sola Scriptura or non Sola Scriptura. Prayer is communication with God. To have a “Scripture Alone” prayer, we would have to have all our prayers come straight from the Bible. That is itself not Scriptural.

Sola Scriptura is the principle that tradition and theology should be subordinate to and judged by Holy Scripture. All tradition and all doctrine should align with Scripture.

Creating a man-made tradition that all prayers must come verbatim from the Bible would be a tradition with no foundation in God’s Holy Word.

Their denomination would determine what the majors are. If you’ve visited their website and was curious to know more, why didn’t you just go on over to the Evangelical Covenant Church website as advertised?

Wow. Sounds like you have them all figured out . . . /QUOTE

1- if you are going to follow sola scriptora one should probably do it, and as we know no one does. For example Sunday school isn’t in the bible but most Christians still do it so they aren’t following the bible

2- I have personally talked to a couple of the church elders and they have told me about thier stuggles with catholic teachings on marriage

 

[ltwin]

1- if you are going to follow sola scriptora one should probably do it, and as we know no one does. For example Sunday school isn’t in the bible but most Christians still do it so they aren’t following the bible

That is not what Sola Scriptura is though. You are using a faulty definition and then criticizing people for not meeting your faulty definition. It is ridiculous. Sola Scriptura is “Scripture Alone as a standard by which all things in the Church and Christian life are measured and judged.” It does not mean “Scripture Alone and nothing else is allowed.” You are making Sola Scriptura into something that it is not, and in the process, you are being quite unfair to this evangelical church.

If you don’t believe me, take the New Catholic Encyclopedia’s word for it:

The “formal” part of Lutheranism is a complex of convictions about the way the doctrinal content of its confession of faith is received, preserved, and developed. The first element of this complex consists in authoritative documents, especially the Old and New Testaments. According to the Formula of Concord,* the Scriptures are the one and only rule and norm (norma normans), according to which all dogmas and all teachers, living or dead, are to be judged. Other documents are enumerated, but with careful emphasis on their circumstantial and, therefore, temporary character in relation to the Scriptures.** Just as the ancient creeds were formulated to combat primitive heresies, so too the Lutheran confessional writings (a list is given in which the Confession of Augsburg and its companion Apology rank first in authority) were necessarily constructed to clarify the religious questions of the 16th century. These latter documents are designated as normae normatae. They stand as authoritative but in subjection to the judgment of the Scriptures.* (“Lutheranism” p. 895)

 

[Adamski]

That is not what Sola Scriptura is though. You are using a faulty definition and then criticizing people for not meeting your faulty definition. It is ridiculous. Sola Scriptura is “Scripture Alone as a standard by which all things in the Church and Christian life are measured and judged.” It does not mean “Scripture Alone and nothing else is allowed.” You are making Sola Scriptura into something that it is not, and in the process, you are being quite unfair to this evangelical church.

If you don’t believe me, take the New Catholic Encyclopedia’s word for it:

The “formal” part of Lutheranism is a complex of convictions about the way the doctrinal content of its confession of faith is received, preserved, and developed. The first element of this complex consists in authoritative documents, especially the Old and New Testaments. According to the Formula of Concord,* the Scriptures are the one and only rule and norm (norma normans), according to which all dogmas and all teachers, living or dead, are to be judged. Other documents are enumerated, but with careful emphasis on their circumstantial and, therefore, temporary character in relation to the Scriptures.*** Just as the ancient creeds were formulated to combat primitive heresies, so too the Lutheran confessional writings (a list is given in which the Confession of Augsburg and its companion Apology rank first in authority) were necessarily constructed to clarify the religious questions of the 16th century. These latter documents are designated as normae normatae. They stand as authoritative but in subjection to the judgment of the Scriptures. (“Lutheranism” p. 895)

That’s not what it means to my nieghbor that goes to Calvary chapel

Also can you tell me where you find the above in the bible

 

[ltwin]

That’s not what it means to my nieghbor that goes to Calvary chapel

Well, your neighbor from Calvary Chapel does not speak for all Protestants. And anyway, I doubt your neighbor from Calvary Chapel believes that Sunday School or “non sola scriptora prayer” (whatever that is???) is forbidden by Scripture to begin with. Therefore, I highly doubt you understand what he means by Sola Scriptura in all honesty.

This is what the Evangelical Covenant Church believes:

“the holy scripture, the old and the new testament, is the Word of God and the only perfect rule for faith, doctrine, and conduct.”

Calvary Chapel believes:

*We believe that the scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are the Word of God, fully inspired without error and the infallible rule of faith and practice. The Word of God is the foundation upon which this church operates and is the basis for which this church is governed. We believe that the Word of God supersedes any earthly law that is contrary to the Holy Scriptures. It is from God’s Word that we establish our doctrine and Statement of Faith. (Isaiah 28:13; Nehemiah 8:8; John 17:17; 2 Timothy 3:16-17; Hebrews 4:12; 1 Peter 1:23-25; 2 Peter 1:3-4 and 1:21).
*

You see! The statement clearly says that CC believes that it “establish[es]” its doctrine and beliefs on God’s Word. It derives what it believes from Scripture. In other words, it judges and measures everything it believes against the Bible.

Also can you tell me where you find the above in the bible

It’s not about finding it in the Bible. It is about being on a solid foundation. It is about not being carried away by every man made tradition that claims to be sacred. It is about not being carried away with every wind of doctrine. It is about not binding what God has not bound and not loosing what God has not loosed. It is about believing that all things necessary to salvation is told and given to us in Holy Scripture so that we might not be led astray or without guidance. It is about not letting guesswork or circumstantial doctrines be declared de fide.

 

[Dave_Noonan]

How do they have confirmation with no bishop and no laying on of hands since that’s the bible way?

The Catholic Church also has Confirmation without a bishop. Attend any Easter Vigil service and you’ll probably witness it.

 

[ffg]

Itwin,

Thank you for providing a concise definition of Sola Scriptura -

“Scripture Alone as a standard by which all things in the Church and Christian life are measured and judged.”

Where did you learn about the term “Sola Scriptura” and it’s definition?

Thanks.

 

[ltwin]

Where did you learn about the term “Sola Scriptura” and it’s definition?

I knew what it was long before I knew the term. Growing up I was taught that the Bible is a guide for everything: doctrine, church order, Christian life. It was only until I was in college and took a class on the Protestant Reformation that I was actually taught the term Sola Scriptura.

 

[Boulder257]

Here is a link to a discussion on this topic that is occuring on the Apologetics forum right now:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=788443

 

[ffg]

I knew what it was long before I knew the term. Growing up I was taught that the Bible is a guide for everything: doctrine, church order, Christian life. It was only until I was in college and took a class on the Protestant Reformation that I was actually taught the term Sola Scriptura.

Thanks for the reply.

I was taught the same, the bible’s books are guides / instructions for life. One thing I remember being told early was to remember the bible is a library of books of varying Genre’s. That has really helped when going through and trying to puzzle the message together, or follow along as others are doing the puzzling.

In that class, did the teacher happen to say where the term came from? I had heard 1500’s, but am curious if the basis / source was a focus in class.

 

[ltwin]

In that class, did the teacher happen to say where the term came from? I had heard 1500’s, but am curious if the basis / source was a focus in class.

It was a class on the Protestant Reformation. I’m not sure but I think the term “Sola Scriptura” originated during that times. I’m not sure if the principle was advocated by any groups pre-Reformation.

 

[Nicea325]

That is not what Sola Scriptura is though. You are using a faulty definition and then criticizing people for not meeting your faulty definition. It is ridiculous. **Sola Scriptura is “Scripture Alone as a standard by which all things in the Church and Christian life are *measured and judged/***I].” It does not mean “Scripture Alone and nothing else is allowed.” You are making Sola Scriptura into something that it is not, and in the process, you are being quite unfair to this evangelical church.

If you don’t believe me, take the New Catholic Encyclopedia’s word for it:

The “formal” part of Lutheranism is a complex of convictions about the way the doctrinal content of its confession of faith is received, preserved, and developed. The first element of this complex consists in authoritative documents, especially the Old and New Testaments. According to the Formula of Concord,* the Scriptures are the one and only rule and norm (norma normans), according to which all dogmas and all teachers, living or dead, are to be judged. Other documents are enumerated, but with careful emphasis on their circumstantial and, therefore, temporary character in relation to the Scriptures.*** Just as the ancient creeds were formulated to combat primitive heresies, so too the Lutheran confessional writings (a list is given in which the Confession of Augsburg and its companion Apology rank first in authority) were necessarily constructed to clarify the religious questions of the 16th century. These latter documents are designated as normae normatae. They stand as authoritative but in subjection to the judgment of the Scriptures. (“Lutheranism” p. 895)

When was this “measure” called SS instituted and by whose authority? Where does Scripture remotely even teach such a standard? And please spare the same ole verses like 2 Tim 3:16 which support nothing of the sort.

Okay,but tell me who decided what is the official definition of SS? I can tell you right now not the CC. Because I can tell you many non-Catholics would disagree with you.

 

[ltwin]

When was this “measure” called SS instituted and by whose authority? Where does Scripture remotely even teach such a standard? And please spare the same ole verses like 2 Tim 3:16 which support nothing of the sort.

Already answered this question.

Okay,but tell me who decided what is the official definition of SS? I can tell you right now not the CC. Because I can tell you many non-Catholics would disagree with you.

It’s a standard principle of the Protestant Reformation. A lot of Catholics disagree with the Catholic Church’s beliefs and practices. It doesn’t mean they know what they are talking about.