Sola Scriptura and worship service.

[rpp]

If the Bible is the only source we can rely on for Christian teaching, where in the Bible does it describe the elements of the worship service for, say, a Baptist? Where does it talk about opening prayers, some nice songs, a one hour sermon and then an altar call?

The point I am trying to make is that there most certainly are elements of protestantism which are based on tradition of some sort. These traditions may not be very old, but they are still traditions.

Therefore, if Protestant traditions are valid, what makes Catholic traditions invalid?

 

[heisenburg]

Keeping in mind I am very much Catholic, I want to point out that this is a straw man argument against Protestantism…

Very few protestants say that EVERY possible aspect of Christian Life is in the Bible…

A better understanding (as I understand it and it could be wrong) is that their rules for Faith and Morals can only come from scripture. This says nothing about how that faith and morals should be taught, but simply as the source of the faith and morals that must be taught…

This is why they have issues with the Churches teaching on say the Assumption of Mary… No indication, no mention in scripture, therefore, why teach it (however with respect to this issue, you need to remember that tradition indicates that the Assumption happened AFTER all books were written, so of course it wouldn’t…

We can depend on Oral Tradition, the Magisterium, and the Written Tradition (bible) for our faith and morals…

They simply have the bible… and an incomplete one at that

But they do NOT teach that the bible says how we are to do everything in matters of faith and morals…

(Disclaimer: I know that there are some denominations that do teach that the bible also teaches completely how we are suppose to employ biblical faith and morals. It is impossible to make any statement about beliefs in protestantism as there are a great many of beliefs… even in how sola scriptura is to be implemented

IN Christ

 

[GailMac]

Excuse me, not to make it difficult, but in the Old Testament there are people who died and went straight to Heaven — Elijah being one, that is why the Isrealites thought he’d return before the Messiah came. And his death is only alluded to - this is a tough one for Protestants and can be used to show pre-figurement of the Assumption of Mary. I know this is off topic, but I thought I’d give a head’s up for those interested in defending Marian stuff.

Peace,

Gail

 

[TriuneUnity]

If the Bible is the only source we can rely on for Christian teaching, where in the Bible does it describe the elements of the worship service for, say, a Baptist? Where does it talk about opening prayers, some nice songs, a one hour sermon and then an altar call?

The point I am trying to make is that there most certainly are elements of protestantism which are based on tradition of some sort. These traditions may not be very old, but they are still traditions.

Therefore, if Protestant traditions are valid, what makes Catholic traditions invalid?

For one thing… Scripture doesn’t command a particular form of worship for the New Testament. Obviously, the forms of Old Testament worship were strictly laid out.

“Traditions” of this nature are neither valid nor invalid. Roman Catholicism, however, makes its tradition, which cannot be verified from Scripture, dogmatic that Christians must adhere to or be separated from the Church. That is where we, as Lutheran Christians, draw the line.

 

[GailMac]

Actually there is Biblical reference to worship services outside the norms …there were those who took matters into their own hands and went to “high places” and erected “sacred pillars” and burned incense, etc. changing the ways the Isrealites practiced. This was an example repeated often and refered to often by the prophets and sages of the ages of how the Isrealites offended God with their bogus worship and faced punishments from Him because of their deviance.

There were literally hundreds of rules governing the Isrealite’s “worship services,” if you want to call them that, and deviance from them brought down the wrath of God. Big clue in that if you ask me! The earliest example are the two sons of Aaron who offered profane incense and were struck dead by God Himself! (Lev. 10). It is plain to see in the Old Testament this obligatory adherance to the “rules” regarding worship and how to do so properly was with the Isrealites from the beginning and remained a feature of the early Church. To claim there weren’t any rules extant at the time of Christ is preposterous to anyone who has even briefly read the Old Testament. Jesus Himself said He didn’t come to abolish the laws, but to fulfill them!

Much of what we do in our Liturgies today is similar in practice to things that were done all the way back to Moses and Aaron and the giving of the Commandments! That’s quite a heiritage to toss to the winds in favor of warm and fuzzy services that stir the emotions of Protestant church goers. They haven’t even a tenth of what we have and have to make it up as they go along. Some in their frustrations with finding ways to properly worship even copy much of what we do in their services. If that doesn’t say something, what will?

Peace,

Gail

 

[TriuneUnity]

Actually there is Biblical reference to worship services outside the norms …there were those who took matters into their own hands and went to “high places” and erected “sacred pillars” and burned incense, etc. changing the ways the Isrealites practiced. This was an example repeated often and refered to often by the prophets and sages of the ages of how the Isrealites offended God with their bogus worship and faced punishments from Him because of their deviance.

There were literally hundreds of rules governing the Isrealite’s “worship services,” if you want to call them that, and deviance from them brought down the wrath of God. Big clue in that if you ask me! The earliest example are the two sons of Aaron who offered profane incense and were struck dead by God Himself! (Lev. 10). It is plain to see in the Old Testament this obligatory adherance to the “rules” regarding worship and how to do so properly was with the Isrealites from the beginning and remained a feature of the early Church. To claim there weren’t any rules extant at the time of Christ is preposterous to anyone who has even briefly read the Old Testament. Jesus Himself said He didn’t come to abolish the laws, but to fulfill them!

Much of what we do in our Liturgies today is similar in practice to things that were done all the way back to Moses and Aaron and the giving of the Commandments! That’s quite a heiritage to toss to the winds in favor of warm and fuzzy services that stir the emotions of Protestant church goers. They haven’t even a tenth of what we have and have to make it up as they go along. Some in their frustrations with finding ways to properly worship even copy much of what we do in their services. If that doesn’t say something, what will?

Peace,

Gail

Yes, I agree with you about the Liturgy. I also share your criticism of neo-evangelical worship services. I despise contemporary worship and music with a passion, actually. Fortunately, I am part of a church body which practices the ancient Western liturgy, so I dont have to put up with that junk.