Sola Scriptura?biblical?

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This is such an embarassing comment as the other one you or crew wrote earlier. This kind of desperation tells me you need a break for about a month. I may not agree with you but i certainly don’t like to see you embarass yourself with this kind of nonsense. 👍
I agree, JK4!
Tony
 
The Marian doctrines and celibate leadership are 2.

The truth.
Reply:
May God Bless your efforts, Come Holy Spirit come!😃

Celebacy is not a mandate of the RCC, it is “only” a self imposed sacrifice, because the early Church Fathers, figured out that the Ministery of the RC Priesthood, is a full tome job, and then some.

Married life, in itself is very good, but would only take away from the time and energy of the Priesthood. Jesus Himself told us that a “house devided cannot stand.” Of signifiant note, as St. Paul indicates, Vowed priest and religious are given xtra, and super abubdant graces to permit them to make this enormus sacrifice.

As a point of fact: There are in the RCC today, quite a number of former Christian Married Ministers, who have converted to Catholism, and were permitted (by exception from Rome) to become married Catholic priest. Again, it is a required sacrifice, not truly a mandate.

Now if you can be a bit more specific on the Marian Doctrine that your would like to better understand, let me know what your looking for, and with the aid of the Holy Spirit, I will provide the information you seek.

God’s continued Blessings,
PJM m.c.
 
This is a far more complex issue. Other doctrines in the church are alot clearer in their violations of Scripture.
Name 1 or 2 “Doctrines in the Church…in violations of Scripture”. Is not One, JK4. Try one or more.
Tony
 
PJM;4296264]Reply:
May God Bless your efforts, Come Holy Spirit come!😃
Celebacy is not a mandate of the RCC, it is “only” a self imposed sacrifice, because the early Church Fathers, figured out that the Ministery of the RC Priesthood, is a full tome job, and then some.
Married life, in itself is very good, but would only take away from the time and energy of the Priesthood. Jesus Himself told us that a “house devided cannot stand.” Of signifiant note, as St. Paul indicates, Vowed priest and religious are given xtra, and super abubdant graces to permit them to make this enormus sacrifice.
This is where the Catholic church is confused. Paul lays out clearly in I Timothy 3 what the qualifiactions of a bishop are and one of those is that he is to be married and have children. The Roman Catholic disqualifies married men from this just because they are married.
As a point of fact: There are in the RCC today, quite a number of former Christian Married Ministers, who have converted to Catholism, and were permitted (by exception from Rome) to become married Catholic priest. Again, it is a required sacrifice, not truly a mandate.
These “exceptions” are just that. The issue is what i stated previously.
Now if you can be a bit more specific on the Marian Doctrine that your would like to better understand, let me know what your looking for, and with the aid of the Holy Spirit, I will provide the information you seek.

How about the immaculate conception and her assumption. Where are these things taught in Scripture?
God’s continued Blessings,
PJM m.c.
 
Actually, ja4 is not looking for either. He (they) are here to convert all of us into “bible christians” by getting us poor lost Catholics to realize that the Catholic Church teaches “false doctrines”.
This is a true statement. JA4 user(s) ask the same questions over and over, not because they want an answer, but to try and trip someone up. Their operation seems like a bunch of monkeys typing on a keyboard.
 
I’m just answering his question about what sola scriptura is. If you want to raise the typical Catholic lie of “30,000 denominations”, I’m afraid you’re going to have to play by yourself.
The Catholic Church doesn’t say how many sects. Different Governmental, Secular organizations do. I heard last year that the US Labor Deprtment last year alleged 18,000 to 33,000 Sects. The Catholic Church is not against any Faith, like you are.
Vivat Jesus. Tony
 
Only the Scriptures are inspired-inerrant. They do not derive this authority etc from the church. The church is to be in submission to the Scriptures since they cannot err while the church which is composed of fallen men can. Just because God used the Catholic church to discern the NT canon does not mean the church is above the Scriptures in terms of authority.
We all know about the wheat and the tares and this will be with us all until the end of time.

It is a constant battle for the Church to combat heresay and it will go on. However, Jesus said that the HS would guide us and that He, Jesus, would be with us always until the end of time.

Are you saying that Jesus said this with tongue in cheek, that he was only bluffing? Has the Holy Spirit done a bad job and not guided us at all?

Where do you come from? Oh man! You do waffle on and on and on and go round and round in circles. There is no pleasure or satisfaction to debate with you.

WHAT is your objective? For a moment I thought we had communicated and then you throw a spanner in the works.

You are not a serious debater. You don’t want to reach agreement on anything. You just want to irritate and be a thorn in our sides.

Peter denied Jesus three times, he was a flawed individual and yet when he received the H Spirit he changed completely and became a very effective leader of the Church. The Church cannot err because the HS is with us.

Now, get a life:p
 
We all know about the wheat and the tares and this will be with us all until the end of time.

It is a constant battle for the Church to combat heresay and it will go on. However, Jesus said that the HS would guide us and that He, Jesus, would be with us always until the end of time.

Are you saying that Jesus said this with tongue in cheek, that he was only bluffing? Has the Holy Spirit done a bad job and not guided us at all?

Where do you come from? Oh man! You do waffle on and on and on and go round and round in circles. There is no pleasure or satisfaction to debate with you.

WHAT is your objective? For a moment I thought we had communicated and then you throw a spanner in the works.

You are not a serious debater. You don’t want to reach agreement on anything. You just want to irritate and be a thorn in our sides.

Peter denied Jesus three times, he was a flawed individual and yet when he received the H Spirit he changed completely and became a very effective leader of the Church. The Church cannot err because the HS is with us.

Now, get a life:p
i get the impression you don’t like me… am i right?
:bighanky:
 
The Marian doctrines and celibate leadership are 2.

Are clear contradiction to Holy Scripture? Opposite! ** Clergy Celibacy are old and NT:

Deut 23:8-10;

Matt 10:37-38;

Leviticu20:26;

Matt 19: 27-29;
Matt 16:24; And more.

Marian Doctrines are never contrary to Scipture. No Catholic Teaching is.

The truth. Our Lord said The Truth on Earth is in the Apostles, and His Church. 1 Timothty 3:15. :bible1: :highprayer: :amen: Vivat Jesus. Tony
 
This is where the Catholic church is confused. Paul lays out clearly in I Timothy 3 what the qualifiactions of a bishop are and one of those is that he is to be married and have children. The Roman Catholic disqualifies married men from this just because they are married.

What Paul is really saying here is that a Bishop must be “mature and responsible.”

These “exceptions” are just that. The issue is what I stated previously.

How about the immaculate conception and her assumption. Where are these things taught in Scripture?
Reply:

No, it’s not the RCC who disqualifies, but rather the one who chooses, one supposes with the grace of God to get married.
Fact: One does not have to get married, and one does not have to become a priest.😉 They are personal life choices.

I would urge caution in thinking that the RCC is “confused.” We are some 2000 years old, believing (with the aid of the H.S.) and teaching for the most part the same doctrines and dogmas that we have always taught. two thousand years of constant papal rule. Jesus Himself promised that the gates of hell would not prevail againt THE ONLY Church actually founded by Jesus Himself. Mt. 16:13-20

Also the Bible is factually and historically a Catholic book. The entire New Testament was written by Catholics. The RCC was the only Christian Church for nearly 1,500 years!👍 and the Catholic Bible the only bible until 1611, when Luther modified the “Latin Vulgate” to meet his needs. Having read the KJV, I suspect that about 90% is still based on the Catholic Bible. Did you know that? (Meaning that they say the same thing.) The difference is not so much what they say, but how they are interpeted:D

In 1960 there were about 3,000 different Christian denomonations, today there are about 40,000:) Yet, there is only one truth. Period.
Odds are you’ll find, if you pray, the fullness of truth in the RCC, because that where it is. Amen:D

Keep in mind Paul’s writting were written before any of the four Gospels, nearly 2000 years ago. He was writting to people of his time, and very likely had no idea that the Church would accept his teaching for all times and publish them in the “Cannon of the bible.” The message always applies to us but has to be understood in the context of who was writting and to whom he was speaking to gain a fuller understanding of the passage.

One also has to seperate RCC PRACTICE, which can and does change, from official doctrine and dogma, which can “gain a fuller understanding,” BUT at base, cannot change.

As I had hoped to make clear, celebacy is ONLY a RCC practice. It could, and some certainly would like to see it changed, but I personally find it unlikely, because what the RCC has done (FOR THE MOST PART) in seeking celebant priest and religious, has worked quite well over a 2000 year period. We continued to be the largest Christian denomination in the world.🙂

I would share with you also, that you see many priest and religious wearing “wedding bands,” often on their right hand. This signifies in their minds and hearts, that they are married to the “Bride of Christ” His Church, or for female religious, they often considered themselves “married to Christ.”

As for the Marian issues, they are easy but very time consumming to respond to, so it will have to wait until tomorrow. I have to prepare for a Bible Study class, that I co-teach this evening. I will respond to them for you.

I’ll keep you in my prayers and ask that you do the same for me.

THANKS for allowing me to share RC beliefs with you. It is such a previledge. God Bless you.😃
 
This is where the Catholic church is confused. Paul lays out clearly in I Timothy 3 what the qualifiactions of a bishop are and one of those is that he is to be married and have children. The Roman Catholic disqualifies married men from this just because they are married.

1 Timothy 3 is Past tense, in Apostolic Times, when a few Apostles had been married. It does not require a new Bishop to Be married to be qualified. Practice of the Church was to require Celibacy, 2nd cenury on, Very Biblical, because full clergy are very much 24/7 busy. We are opposite of Sunday only. We are 7 Days a week, very Busy Priests, One day off a week. My pastor works 8 AM to 10PM or later, often 7 days a week, modest pay.

These “exceptions” are just that. The issue is what i stated previously.

How about the immaculate conception and her assumption. Where are these things taught in Scripture?

** The Bible itself says that very much has not been written in it, because would be Too many books.** ****Vivat Jesus. Tony
 
This is a true statement. JA4 user(s) ask the same questions over and over, not because they want an answer, but to try and trip someone up. Their operation seems like a bunch of monkeys typing on a keyboard.
Ridiculing anybody is against Church teaching, and TOS violation here, and everywhere. Only ones ‘they trip up’ are like yourselves, slipping into personal attacks.
Get a Life! :whistle: Tony
 
This is a true statement. JA4 user(s) ask the same questions over and over, not because they want an answer, but to try and trip someone up. Their operation seems like a bunch of monkeys typing on a keyboard.
MDK… They espouse to the process of “repetitive redundancy”. You can prove them dead wrong 85 ways to Thursday…and it won’t matter. Its a standard tactic straight from their playbook. I believe its on the page where it instructs them when they are rapidly loosing ground: When losing the argument and even ad hominem fails to work, use deflectionary tactics such as asking the same foolish questions repeatedly, if that fails hijack the thread with some other nonsense.
 
Ridiculing anybody is against Church teaching, and TOS violation here, and everywhere. Only ones ‘they trip up’ are like yourselves, slipping into personal attacks.
Get a Life! :whistle: Tony
Might I suggest that you apply the same standard to the other party?
It is a two way street…right?

Besides, are these not forum rules:
#6 Do not view the discussion area as a vehicle for single-mindedly promoting an agenda.
#7 Non-Catholics are welcome to participate but must be respectful of the faith of the Catholics participating on the board.
Seems justasking4 has never bothered to read or adhere to them.
 
Might I suggest that you apply the same standard to the other party?
It is a two way street…right?

Besides, are these not forum rules:

Seems justasking4 has never bothered to read or adhere to them.
Haven’t noticed that JK4 does not have an agenda, and is almost all questions? A little humor by him is also new. And he asks great questions, lot more mellowly.

Throwing spitballs at Very busy vistors never works,. Great answers he Responds to with detailed new questions is sign he is Learning. Even has own copy of CCC, and asking Where CCC says a Catholic Belief. All signs great!. I and others are respecting him more and more.:bowdown2:
Vivat Jesus. Tony
 
PJM;4296522]Reply:
Originally Posted by justasking4
This is where the Catholic church is confused. Paul lays out clearly in I Timothy 3 what the qualifiactions of a bishop are and one of those is that he is to be married and have children. The Roman Catholic disqualifies married men from this just because they are married.

PJM
What Paul is really saying here is that a Bishop must be “mature and responsible.”
True and he uses marriage with children as a “testing” ground since being a bishop is like being married with children. Its one of the greatest challenges a man will face.
justasking4
These “exceptions” are just that. The issue is what I stated previously.
How about the immaculate conception and her assumption. Where are these things taught in Scripture?
PJM
Reply:
No, it’s not the RCC who disqualifies, but rather the one who chooses, one supposes with the grace of God to get married.
Fact: One does not have to get married, and one does not have to become a priest. They are personal life choices.
This is true in part. However the Scriptures do not disqualify a married man from beoming a bishop. The church disqualifies married men from beoming bishops at the beginning for the mere fact they are married. If the church is going to disqualify a man it must be on other grounds.
I would urge caution in thinking that the RCC is “confused.” We are some 2000 years old, believing (with the aid of the H.S.) and teaching for the most part the same doctrines and dogmas that we have always taught. two thousand years of constant papal rule. Jesus Himself promised that the gates of hell would not prevail againt THE ONLY Church actually founded by Jesus Himself. Mt. 16:13-20
Not sure Matthew 16:13-20 applies here. What does is I Timothy 3
Also the Bible is factually and historically a Catholic book. The entire New Testament was written by Catholics. The RCC was the only Christian Church for nearly 1,500 years! and the Catholic Bible the only bible until 1611, when Luther modified the “Latin Vulgate” to meet his needs. Having read the KJV, I suspect that about 90% is still based on the Catholic Bible. Did you know that? (Meaning that they say the same thing.) The difference is not so much what they say, but how they are interpeted
Even if the Bible is supposedly a “Catholic” book that does not mean that the church has the authority to go against the Scriptures.
In 1960 there were about 3,000 different Christian denomonations, today there are about 40,000 Yet, there is only one truth. Period.
Odds are you’ll find, if you pray, the fullness of truth in the RCC, because that where it is. Amen
Just because there are over 30,000 churches in Protestantism does not mean they are all wrong. Actually there is quite a large amount of agreement among the essential doctrines of the faith. However there are serious problems in some protestant churches.

What is this “fullness of truth in the RCC”?
Keep in mind Paul’s writting were written before any of the four Gospels, nearly 2000 years ago. He was writting to people of his time, and very likely had no idea that the Church would accept his teaching for all times and publish them in the “Cannon of the bible.” The message always applies to us but has to be understood in the context of who was writting and to whom he was speaking to gain a fuller understanding of the passage.
i agree.
One also has to seperate RCC PRACTICE, which can and does change, from official doctrine and dogma, which can “gain a fuller understanding,” BUT at base, cannot change.
Is not RCC PRACTICE based on doctrine?
As I had hoped to make clear, celebacy is ONLY a RCC practice.
But it is based on doctrine of some kind. Correct?
It could, and some certainly would like to see it changed, but I personally find it unlikely, because what the RCC has done (FOR THE MOST PART) in seeking celebant priest and religious, has worked quite well over a 2000 year period. We continued to be the largest Christian denomination in the world.
I would share with you also, that you see many priest and religious wearing “wedding bands,” often on their right hand. This signifies in their minds and hearts, that they are married to the “Bride of Christ” His Church, or for female religious, they often considered themselves “married to Christ.”
As for the Marian issues, they are easy but very time consumming to respond to, so it will have to wait until tomorrow. I have to prepare for a Bible Study class, that I co-teach this evening. I will respond to them for you.
This may not be the place to address these marian doctrines. There are a couple of threads that are running that you could post to.
I’ll keep you in my prayers and ask that you do the same for me.
THANKS for allowing me to share RC beliefs with you. It is such a previledge. God Bless you.
Same here. God Bless–👍
 
Only the Scriptures are inspired-inerrant. They do not derive this authority etc from the church.
You are equating things that are not equal.

The fact that the Scriptures are inspired - inerrant does not make them an “authority”. This is what makes them profitable.

What authorizes them is the church. Without the church to identify which writings are the authentic ones, then you have no basis for the collection of books that you are using. You might as well use the gnostic gospels. The scriptures do not have the power to “authorize” themselves, because they don’t containe, and cannot apply to themselves, the necessary tests.
The church is to be in submission to the Scriptures since they cannot err
How can the church be submitted to those things she created and authorized? This reasoning makes no sense. Without the Church, there is no collection.

You are right, though, that the scriptures cannot “err”. This implies action, which the scriptures do not take of themselves. They do not reason, discern,make decisions an enforce disciplines. All these actions require the intellect and will of a person.
while the church which is composed of fallen men can. Just because God used the Catholic church to discern the NT canon does not mean the church is above the Scriptures in terms of authority.
And it is improper to separate the two from one another. They were created to work together, and neither functions properly without the other.
 
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