Sola Scriptura doesn't exist

[wisdomseeker]

What time period are you speaking of?

In Christ
:grouphug:

i think about the time of the muslims invasion of the east.

 

[jdevoir]

i think about the time of the muslims invasion of the east.

the reason I asked was JT was talking about the first century with Peter and Paul.

In Christ
:grouphug:

sorry SK I will reel in my tangent I just thought MT 16 helped with the discussion

 

[JTBT]

after all…Did I nail that to the wall? Come close? Nowhere near close? The Koran could have said it better??? …Lemme know…

SK

• I don’t know how close we are on our view of salvation, but I don’t hold to OSAS, that is what you were refering to, but let me ask you does the Bible teach what one needs to know about Christ? and does it say what people need to do to live a christian life?
  The Koran well no actually they have it wrong they do not know who Christ is.*

 

[Church_Militant]

we can use the last one but, if we are going to use it we will have to take each sentence on it own. that way we do not jump from topic to topic I suggest we exhaust one and then the other.

That works for me.

I don’t understand your second challenge though, why is it a problem for me to say that They contain all that is necessary for salvation.

that in no way denys what was used before the canon was established.
all that is saying is that TODAY the Bible contains all that is necessary for salvation.I think you’re right and we should deal with this later as a separate aspect.

 

[n2thelight]

Simple question and without saying both,what is more important

Scripture or Tradition

Scripture can exist without tradition, but Tradition cannot exist without scripture.

 

[SilentKnight]

I don’t know how close we are on our view of salvation, but I don’t hold to OSAS,

Ok, cool.

but let me ask you does the Bible teach what one needs to know about Christ?

What one needs to know about Christ… what? For salvation?

and does it say what people need to do to live a christian life?

It does, though it does not spell out the Christian life in its entirety.

The Koran well no actually they have it wrong they do not know who Christ is.

I know. Was teasing. Exaggerating to make a point.



SK

 

[jdevoir]

i went back through the posts and i did not see it anywhere but maybe i missed it… JT can you tell me in your own words what Sola Scriptura means? I know what Michael Patton says but I want to know what you think and if its the same as Pattons then please summarize your thoughts on that.

In Christ
:grouphug:

 

[jdevoir]

no it is by Christ alone that you are saved.
The Bible contains all that you need to know about Christ in order to be saved.

in connection with my last post… is there any Doctrine of the Catholic Faith that cannot be seen within the pages of Scripture? I don’t believe there is so…but is the quote above your definition of SS?

In Christ
:grouphug:

 

[trrocks03]

The Bible contains all that you need to know about Christ in order to be saved.

Can I pose a hypothetical question?

Lets go back in time a few hundred years. Lets say it is the year 200 AD. The ECF decide to continue with oral tradition and avoid compiling a book. So years go by and today we don’t have a bible, we just have oral tradition and teaching from the catholic church. Or maybe they have a book hidden, but don’t let everyone use it. (First of all this wouldn’t be in Christ’s plan, to hide the truth, but this is hypothetical). What would we be saved by then? sola orala? sola traditionala?

Why did the ECF decide to compile a book? Was it because the Holy Spirit came to them and said, “1200 years from now, some reformers to the church will develop “sola scriptura”, so I need you guys to start working on a book for them to be saved from. (Oh and at that point there will be divisions within the church because thats what God wants.)”.

Just a couple thoughts and questions to consider…

 

[JTBT]

in connection with my last post… is there any Doctrine of the Catholic Faith that cannot be seen within the pages of Scripture? I don’t believe there is so…but is the quote above your definition of SS?

In Christ
:grouphug:

Bodily assumption of Mary

 

[JTBT]

Can I pose a hypothetical question?

Lets go back in time a few hundred years. Lets say it is the year 200 AD. The ECF decide to continue with oral tradition and avoid compiling a book. So years go by and today we don’t have a bible, we just have oral tradition and teaching from the catholic church. Or maybe they have a book hidden, but don’t let everyone use it. (First of all this wouldn’t be in Christ’s plan, to hide the truth, but this is hypothetical). What would we be saved by then? sola orala? sola traditionala?

Why did the ECF decide to compile a book? Was it because the Holy Spirit came to them and said, “1200 years from now, some reformers to the church will develop “sola scriptura”, so I need you guys to start working on a book for them to be saved from. (Oh and at that point there will be divisions within the church because thats what God wants.)”.

Just a couple thoughts and questions to consider…

They decided to compile a book because heretics (some of whom were Priest and Bishops) were coming forward with false or modified Gospels and letters from Paul and claiming that they were real… So the Churches got together to compare what everyone was using, ex.
this church had a letter from Paul, and that church had a copy of the same letter etc, and they matched, well keep going until you get the canon.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Bodily assumption of Mary

why this is problem for you any way? you dont have to believe it… as children of God we want all there is good to his people. including that Mother Mary was assumed into Heaven.

if you were Jesus, wouldnt you do the same for your mother? wouldnt you give her the highest honor if you could?

stop the insanity.

 

[trrocks03]

They decided to compile a book because heretics (some of whom were Priest and Bishops) were coming forward with false or modified Gospels and letters from Paul and claiming that they were real… So the Churches got together to compare what everyone was using, ex.
this church had a letter from Paul, and that church had a copy of the same letter etc, and they matched, well keep going until you get the canon.

I understand why, I was just posing a hypothetical question. They didn’t have to build a bible. Jesus never told them to. Are you saying the Church would have failed if they had not compiled the bible?

 

[JTBT]

in connection with my last post… is there any Doctrine of the Catholic Faith that cannot be seen within the pages of Scripture? I don’t believe there is so…but is the quote above your definition of SS?

In Christ
:grouphug:

I think we are using Michael Pattons:

The Scriptures are the final and only infallible source of authority for the Christian, but not the only authority. They contain all that is necessary for salvation.

 

[jdevoir]

Bodily assumption of Mary

Matthew 16

 

[JTBT]

I understand why, I was just posing a hypothetical question. They didn’t have to build a bible. Jesus never told them to. Are you saying the Church would have failed if they had not compiled the bible?

I think the Bible was composed to combat the corruption of the Church. It is the written record of apostiolic teaching that we can always come back and check ourselves against.

 

[wisdomseeker]

They decided to compile a book because heretics (some of whom were Priest and Bishops) were coming forward with false or modified Gospels and letters from Paul and claiming that they were real… So the Churches got together to compare what everyone was using, ex.
this church had a letter from Paul, and that church had a copy of the same letter etc, and they matched, well keep going until you get the canon.

yes. then years later another heretic priest in germany(haters of the CC) decided that what the Church had done wiht the Book wasnt good enough, so he too decided to modify the SS and deceived many.

 

[JTBT]

Matthew 16

didn’t see it or are you calling me a Pharisees or Sadducees?

 

[trrocks03]

I think the Bible was composed to combat the corruption of the Church. It is the written record of apostiolic teaching that we can always come back and check ourselves against.

Yes that is very possible. However, would the correct and Jesus-directed Church have failed (ceased to exist) if they didn’t compile a book?

 

[jdevoir]

They decided to compile a book because heretics (some of whom were Priest and Bishops) were coming forward with false or modified Gospels and letters from Paul and claiming that they were real… So the Churches got together to compare what everyone was using, ex.
this church had a letter from Paul, and that church had a copy of the same letter etc, and they matched, well keep going until you get the canon.

AMEN! Thank God for the Holy Spirit to guide the Catholic Churchs Bishops in picking the correct books to be put into the Bible…as scripture says the CHURCH is the pillar and foundation of TRUTH not scripture.

In Christ
:grouphug: