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steve_b
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IOW You don’t have an answer for
"When is the first time in history, in writing, properly referenced, that we see the name “Orthodox Church”
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"When is the first time in history, in writing, properly referenced, that we see the name “Orthodox Church”
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clmowry
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I’m still missing why you were looking for this and why you thought it was was important to know this?
Chuck
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ChadS
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I know this isn’t much of an answer, but some sources I looked at seemed to indiscriminately use the term “Orthodox” regardless of time period. However this link (goarch.org/ourfaith/ourfaith7052) asserts that the term Orthodox comes from the 5th century AD. There is no reference to any particular writing or document, so this probably won’t satisfy as an answer.
ChadS
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alwayswill
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steve_b
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There was no Orthodox Church or Churches in the beginning.
Re: who is Catholic and who is not
This is from Melkite Bp John.
Melkites in the beginning were Catholic, then they became Orthodox, then returned to Catholicism.
Bp John writes (emphasis mine)
“being Catholic means not Orthodox and being Orthodox means not Catholic. To be a Catholic Christian means that one accepts the primacy of the Pope of Rome, because he is the successor of St. Peter. To be an Orthodox Christian means that one does not recognize the primacy of the Pope of Rome, but considers him as “first among equals.” According to the Catholic teaching, Christ did not create a church with five heads of equal importance. He established One Holy Catholic and Apostolic church whose invisible head is the Lord, but whose visible head is the Pope of Rome.
The Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches states it in these terms: “The bishop of the Church of Rome, in whom resides the office (munus) given in a special way by the Lord to Peter, first of the Apostles and to be transmitted to his successors, is head of the college of bishops, the Vicar of Christ and Pastor of the entire Church on earth; therefore in virtue of his office (munus) he enjoys supreme, full, immediate and universal ordinary power in the Church which he can always freely exercise.” (Canon 43 of the Code of Canons of the Eastern Churches)
If an Orthodox subscribes to the Canon quoted above, he/she can be called Catholic and be considered “united to Rome” or in full communion with the Catholic Church.”
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steve_b
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ChadS
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You have demonstrated that you can use the search feature on the Vatican’s website.
The many of the results only point to items where the word “Roman” and “Catholic” appear in the same document, not next to each. That does not prove a thing.
Other documents where the words “Roman” and “Catholic” do appear next to each other appear to come mainly from news articles (some which are linked to sources not from the Vatican) and the names of various working groups, committees, and their reports. I looked at one working group report and while “Roman Catholic” appears in its English name, in the Italian it is only identified as “cattolica.” Would some Italian variation of “Roman Catholic” be appropriate if that was the official name?
It has been noted before that “Roman Catholic” seems to be a mostly English-language phenomenon. I think that what this really demonstrates is that English speakers are comfortable with the term “Roman Catholic” whether it is the correct term or not.
ChadS
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steve_b
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It is interesting to me.
With as large an active population of diverse Christians as this, on Catholic Answers, this IMV is the perfect place to ask the question and get an answer.
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ChadS
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steve_b
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In this case, I’m making a choice, not to do someone elses research for them.
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alwayswill
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Put quotes around “Roman Catholic” and you will see OFFICIAL Vatican documents and pronouncements identifies itself as Roman Catholic
It is the correct term
The term Roman Catholic is self- applied
gsearch.vatican.va/search?client=default_frontend&output=xml_no_dtd&proxystylesheet=default_frontend&sort=date
:L:d1&entsp=a__policy_documenti&wc=200&wc_mc=1&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&ud=1&exclude_apps=1&filter=0&ulang=en&ip=68.83.89.195&access=p&entqr=3&entqrm=0&q=%22roman+Catholic%22+inmeta:language%3Den&dnavs=inmeta:language%3DenI find hard to belief any Roman Cathodic can have an issue with the phrase when the Vatican’s official site uses it so frequently
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ChadS
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Actually placing quotes around “Roman Catholic” drops the number of results down to 623. Also, the vast majority of those results, as previously explained are news briefs and titles from English speaking working groups. I’m not sure that exactly proves your thesis.Put quotes around “Roman Catholic” and you will see OFFICIAL Vatican documents and pronouncements identifies itself as Roman Catholic
It is the correct term
The term Roman Catholic is self- applied
gsearch.vatican.va/search?client=default_frontend&output=xml_no_dtd&proxystylesheet=default_frontend&sort=date
I find hard to belief any Roman Cathodic can have an issue with the phrase when the Vatican’s official site uses it so frequently
If Roman Catholic is the official title then why is the Catechism titled “Catechism of the Catholic Church”? You would think if Roman would appear in a title it would be here, would it not?
ChadS
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ChadS
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So using quotes for “Roman Catholic” brings the results down by more that 3/4 of the total when not using quotes. Another simple search on www.vatican.va for the term Catholic gets over 4900, actually they don’t even provide an exact figure.Put quotes around “Roman Catholic” and you will see OFFICIAL Vatican documents and pronouncements identifies itself as Roman Catholic
It is the correct term
The term Roman Catholic is self- applied
gsearch.vatican.va/search?client=default_frontend&output=xml_no_dtd&proxystylesheet=default_frontend&sort=date
I find hard to belief any Roman Cathodic can have an issue with the phrase when the Vatican’s official site uses it so frequently
ChadS
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guanophore
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It appears that some of the posts/dialogue in this thread are making you contentious. I am not attempting to argue with you.
If you will accept the first line of my reply to you in post 127, perhaps we can move on to…
It appears that you have been looking for this for quite a long time, so I can only surmise that you are highly motivated for some reason.
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steve_b
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sudy
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It’s used outside the US as I live in England and it’s used within my own parish.
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alwayswill
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baltimore-catechism.com/lesson12.htm
Q. 569. What, then, is the use of defining or declaring a truth an article of faith if it has always been believed?
A. The use of defining or declaring a truth an article of faith, even when it has always been believed, is: (1) To clearly contradict those who deny it and show their teaching false; (2) To remove all doubt about the exact teaching of the Church, and to put an end to all discussion about the truth defined.
Q. 570. In which Church are these attributes and marks found?
A. These attributes and marks are found in the Holy Roman Catholic Church** alone.**
I’m sure you are not going to tell me that answer is in error.I don’t understand why you have an issue with the term
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sudy
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Not all Catholics are Roman Catholics …just like not all birds are owls 
catholic.com/quickquestions/what-is-the-difference-between-the-roman-catholic-and-the-catholic-religion << Here’s a good explanation.
catholic.com/quickquestions/what-is-the-difference-between-the-roman-catholic-and-the-catholic-religion << Here’s a good explanation.
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guanophore
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Oh! Perhaps you would be willing to share it?
And you did not answer my question. Why is this so important?
Do you perceive this question as an attempt on my part to be contentious, rather than just curiousity?
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steve_b
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in previous posts you were projecting onto me all kinds of motives. None of them complimentary.
I asked a question on history. A particular history. That’s it. No more complicated than that. And it’s a question I’ve asked in different ways, in a specific way, and no one has answered it in 12 years on this forum.
As for why is it important? The answer is, I want to know the answer. Period dot end of sentence.
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