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SIA
Guest
Don’t you just love it. When they can’t prop it up enough to live up to claim, they just simply say that it doesn’t have to be. How ingenious is that?
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RobHom
Guest
The “Catechism” has been around much much longer than that. Here is a history of “katechesis”. As you will find if you read the page…its been around forever: newadvent.org/cathen/05075b.htm …well almost.
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Craig_Kennedy
Guest
I have taken the position that sola scriptura is biblical, based upon scriptures own internal claims.
These claims include it bearing supreme witness to Christ’s redemptive history and the fact that the scriptures cannot be broken.
I have also supplied relevant scripture.
I have, therefore, answered your questions.
Ultimately, this question becomes a matter of faith. The discerning interpreter has to decide what is the nature and design of divine authority; where is it to be found? I humbly and graciously say that the Holy Spirit himself has given me great peace and conviction on this matter, viz: that the inerrant scriptures are the SUPREME STANDARD OF TRUTH IN ALL AGES OF HISTORY.
I realise you, along with other true Catholics, see this differently and hold that Christ instituted a teaching Magisterium to infallibly guide the church. I do not doubt your zeal in your intentions; however, I cannot agree.
The inward witness of the Holy Spirit has settled for me the authority, the inerrancy and the SUPREMACY of the scriptures.
I share large amounts of common ground with Catholics and appreciate many aspects of spirituality.
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SIA
Guest
How’s it going my freind? I hear ya, I know that the Catechism has been around for a long long time.Please read my post prior to this one…go to the link provided and there “ye shall find the truth ye seek”.
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SIA
Guest
Doing fine thanks. Getting ready for church in the morning. My wife and I have our turn at providing thr treats at our coffee hour after church is over. She has been baking for about half the day!Doing well!! And you??
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Craig_Kennedy
Guest
Thank you very much for your reply. I have found this information most helpful.
I don’t think it will surprise you when I say I feel close - that is, spiritually speaking - to genuine Catholics and I am learning heaps on this forum. I share with authentic Catholics many rich theological truths.
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Craig_Kennedy
Guest
I’m afraid this is plainly evading the question.
Can somebody please answer my sincere question, as it was posed in context. There is no “theological game” or “one-upmanship” involved here. I am not interested in such trifles.
It is in the interest of all parties to discuss the issues. I have revealed my hand, I have nothing to hide.
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RobHom
Guest
If you are asking in terms of truth and who is the supreme arbiter of any issues regarding Holy Scripture…for Catholics it is the Church.
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Craig_Kennedy
Guest
Your system requires you to believe this and it fits with your approach to biblical revelation.
It is still incumbent upon proponents of this schema to demonstrate where and how God instituted such a thing.
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Craig_Kennedy
Guest
Very well said - I agree with this.
I have found in my own experience confusing inconsistencies among both Catholic and Protestant theologians.
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Cinette
Guest
" Seek not to understand that you may believe, but believe that you may understand."The Church tells us what doctrines are taught infallibly. I don’t have to figure it out for myself. There are several Catholic books available that list infallible teachings. Here’s an excerpt from one of them:
catholicfirst.com/thefaith/churchdocuments/dogmas.cfm
Imagine you had Jesus standing next to you, Incarnate, and he told you point for point what is infallibly defined, what the definition is, and how to understand it. That would really simplify things, wouldn’t it? You wouldn’t be saying the fallibility of your own judgment makes you the final interpreter of everything Jesus just told you, when He can tell you Himself how you’re supposed to interpret it. The fallibility of our own judgment becomes a mere pack of excuses when we’re in a situation where there’s an active Magesterium that defines and explains in clear language.
If the language isn’t clear, on the other hand, one can look at Sacred Tradition to find the truth. What are the teachings on the matter of the Early Church Fathers or the Doctors of the Church? They tend to offer the clarifications of the language that we need. There’s a whole lot of information available, and either authoritative or infallible and authoritative Catholic teaching on matters of faith and morals is not hard to find. If it isn’t available on some issue, Sacred Tradition tends to fill in the gap. There is really an incredible amount of clarity on all the really important matters
I edited my post above to add more to it about this.
- St Augustine
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Craig_Kennedy
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The verse you have quoted is EXACTLY the answer to this sola scriptura discussion. It’s just that Catholics interpret it one way and I - as a Protestant - interpret it another.
Catholics take this verse to mean that the Roman Catholic Church is the pillar and foundation of truth. On this view, scripture and tradition comprise the teaching authority. Furthermore, the teaching authority is vested in the Pope and the Bishops (the Magisterium).
The view that I take - as a Protestant - is that all teaching authority comes from scripture alone (sola scriptura). The Bible itelf rejects a centralised authority and rejects extra-biblical traditions. It is this view that I believe is the will of God.
In adopting this position, however, I am grateful to God for the many Catholics who witness in word and deed to the life-changing power of the gospel. I am not hostile to Catholics.
On my view, then, 1 Timothy 3:15 bears this exegesis:
The universal (catholic) church which is built upon the foundation of the New Testament prophets and apostles with Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone, is the custodian of the truth of the apostolic gospel. It is because all apostolic authority resides in scripture alone (sola scriptura) that the Church bears witness to the saving act of Christ on the cross and is - rightly - declared to be the pillar and foundation of the truth.
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Reformed
Guest
Augustine was a Calvinist even before John Calvin was born.
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Cinette
Guest
:bigyikes: :bigyikes: :bigyikes: :bigyikes: *Augustine was a Calvinist even before John Calvin was born.
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Cinette
Guest
By what standard do you doubt the truth and how do you measure your relative truth?
You know if you read Acts you will see a pure and beautiful believing society emerge. The 11 Apostles had accompanied Jesus and had experienced first hand his teachings, his miracles and his sacrifice. Peter, who was flawed was chosen and transformed at Pentecost. The Apostles were probably illeterate and yet managed to spread the message of the gospels throughout the world. They did not use intellectual arguments - it was their WITNESS. Furthermore every Pope of the first 300 years died martyrs - this was further witness that convinced many of the truth. The Early Church Fathers were a magnificent witness and propagated the Faith and FOUGHT heresay and continue to be a witness today and continue to fight heresay - even on these forums.
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