Sola Scriptura is not a doctrine

[ratio1]

Well even if that’s true, they still have to deal with which scriptura? ( ie canon)

 

[JonNC]

Traditions, doctrines and teachings are basically the same thing. Even disciplines, if you want to be technical, can be classed as teachings.

Oh, so priestly celibacy is a doctrine.

Got it.

 

[JonNC]

Well even if that’s true, they still have to deal with which scriptura? ( ie canon)

Just like Eastern Orthodoxy and Catholicism have different canons, it would depend on the communion

 

[JonNC]

However, Catholics do not hold to a teaching that everything which must be believed has to be in Scripture, except the very teaching which says that everything to be believed must be in Scripture.

You say, it doesn’t have to be in Scripture because it’s a practice. Well, who taught you that it was a practice? Who taught you how to practice it? Who taught you the name of the practice?

Because who ever did it, indoctrinated you.

No. I said it can’t be doctrine because it isn’t explicit in scripture.
Lutheranism holds it as a practice.
Laity doesn’t practice it. The Church does. It is hermeneutical principle.
There is indoctrination in all teachings about the Church.

You may find it uncharitable to be told the truth. But the truth will set you free. Anything that has to be taught or passed down, generation to generation, is a doctrine.

I find it uncharitable to pretend to know more about someone else’s faith than they do. I find it uncharitable to then spread that misinformation on a public forum.
I have never argued with a Catholic here about what they believe, except to highlight the point as I have done here with priestly celebacy. I may argue as to the correctness of that belief. I prefer to engage in dialogue to compare beliefs. But the practice of effectively claiming someone is not being truthful about their faith is, yes, uncharitable.
When someone says Catholics worship Mary, that is a mistake. When they continue to say it even after being corrected by a Catholic, or even a non-Catholic, over and over, then it is uncharitable.

 

[De_Maria]

There is indoctrination in all teachings about the Church.

Thank you! Therefore, Sola Scriptura is a doctrine.

I find it uncharitable to pretend to know more about someone else’s faith than they do.

I find it uncharitable of you to suggest that I claimed to know more about your faith than you do.

I find it uncharitable to then spread that misinformation on a public forum.

I find it uncharitable for you to claim that I’m spreading misinformation about Sola Scriptura.

I have never argued with a Catholic here about what they believe, except to highlight the point as I have done here with priestly celebacy.

When did this debate become about you? This is a public thread on a public forum. The thread is to examine whether it is true or false that Sola Scriptura is not a doctrine.

I may argue as to the correctness of that belief.

Oh, so your arguments about correctness are fine. But my arguments about correctness are not.

I prefer

When did this thread become about what you prefer? Is there some rule that I have to cater to your preferences?

to engage in dialogue to compare beliefs.

That’s what I’m doing. In fact, that’s what I always do. I like to compare Protestant beliefs to Scripture. The problem seems to be that when that comparison proves Protestants wrong, Protestants begin to complain.

But the practice of effectively claiming someone is not being truthful about their faith is, yes, uncharitable.

Now, I’m feeling offended again. I find it uncharitable of you to repeatedly claim that I have claimed that you are not being truthful about your faith.

When did I claim that you or anyone was not being truthful? Show me.

When someone says Catholics worship Mary, that is a mistake. When they continue to say it even after being corrected by a Catholic, or even a non-Catholic, over and over, then it is uncharitable.

The entire reason for this thread is examine the idea that “Sola Scriptura is not a doctrine”. I recognize that this is one of your beliefs. I have also told you, in previous encounters, that I disagree with your beliefs.

You may not like it. But that’s the truth.

 

[De_Maria]

I said it can’t be doctrine because it isn’t explicit in scripture.

Is that a doctrine? Does Scripture explicitly teach that something must be explicit in Scripture before it is considered a doctrine? If so, provide the chapter and verse.

 

[neophyte]

“Sola Scriptura is a hermeneutical principle. A practice to determine whether something is a doctrine. But it is not a doctrine, itself. That is why SS is not in Scripture.”

To which I reply “it’s an irrational hermeneutical principle, and since you admit it’s not scriptural I can safely discard it as worse than useless.”

 

[JonNC]

Thank you! Therefore, Sola Scriptura is a doctrine.

So is priestly celibacy

 

[JonNC]

When did this debate become about you?

Paraphrasing, he said that “Sola Scriptura is a hermeneutical principle. A practice to determine whether something is a doctrine. But it is not a doctrine, itself. That is why SS is not in Scripture.”

Was this not about me?
If not, is there someone else telling you the same thing?

 

[De_Maria]

De_Maria:

When did this debate become about you?

Paraphrasing, he said that “Sola Scriptura is a hermeneutical principle. A practice to determine whether something is a doctrine. But it is not a doctrine, itself. That is why SS is not in Scripture.”

I’m asking again. When did this debate become about you?

Was this not about me?

No. It’s about what you said.

On an anti-Catholic board, I’m having a discussion about what one of our member said,

If not, is there someone else telling you the same thing?

Not on this board.

Nonetheless, although it’s not about you, it is about something which you and other Protestants, believe and teach, on this board and others.

And since you believe and teach it, it is a doctrine. That’s a fact, whether you like it or not.

 

[De_Maria]

De_Maria:

Thank you! Therefore, Sola Scriptura is a doctrine.

So is priestly celibacy

Lol! Yes. Of course. But it’s not an absolute Doctrine. It can change.

And now you’ve admitted that Sola Scriptura is also NOT an absolute doctrine. You admitted that it is under the control of the Church.

 

[De_Maria]

@JonNC,

How does it work? A non-biblical human principle which is not found in Scripture is employed to decide whether something is truly God’s Teaching?

How does that make Scripture “master of everything”?

 

[Vonsalza]

@JonNC,

How does it work? A non-biblical human principle which is not found in Scripture is employed to decide whether something is truly God’s Teaching?

How does that make Scripture “master of everything”?

The beholder of scripture is obviously “master of everything” in the case, which is why you see thousands upon thousands of protestant denoms.

Jon and those of his educated stripe already know this and see the obviousness of it. As such, their primary connection to their non-Catholic “church” (or their primary objection to the Catholic Church itself) is emotionally based.

The rational arguments defending them are secondary to this. Even if you defeat their demurrals to the vague and uncertain, you still haven’t converted them because their “non-Catholic-ness” is emotionally rooted. Not rationally rooted.

So it goes, the world over.

 

[MichaelP3]

Nonetheless, although it’s not about you, it is about something which you and other Protestants, believe and teach, on this board and others.

And since you believe and teach it, it is a doctrine. That’s a fact, whether you like it or not.

I’m wondering now? All the times when Catholics are accused of some sort of ambiguous or whatever belief/practise, then it is always asked “to provide and OFFICIAL Catholic document” that would substantiate that.

And this is me really asking a question and I could be wrong? Is there in any mainstream Protestant Confession/Creed anything that would substantiate this claim?

 

[JonNC]

Jon and those of his educated stripe already know this and see the obviousness of it. As such, their primary connection to their non-Catholic “church” (or their primary objection to the Catholic Church itself) is emotionally based.

Actually, my objection to the Catholic Church is singularly based on its teaching of universal jurisdiction.
But thanks, anyway, for you analysis.

 

[JonNC]

I’m asking again. When did this debate become about you?

You made it about me

 

[JonNC]

And this is me really asking a question and I could be wrong? Is there in any mainstream Protestant Confession/Creed anything that would substantiate this claim?

It doesn’t matter, for De_Maria has determined it so.

 

[JonNC]

How does it work? A non-biblical human principle which is not found in Scripture is employed to decide whether something is truly God’s Teaching?

How does that make Scripture “master of everything”?

Since when is the teaching position of the Church unbiblical?

 

[JonNC]

To which I reply “it’s an irrational hermeneutical principle, and since you admit it’s not scriptural I can safely discard it as worse than useless.”

Then is it okay for to discard the non-Tradition, non-biblical irrational innovation of papal infallibility ex cathedra

 

[De_Maria]

You made it about me

Nope. Its about the idea that SS is not a doctrine.

It doesn’t matter, for De_Maria has determined it so.

I’m flattered that you think so. But its simple logic. If its taught, its a doctrine.

Since when is the teaching position of the Church unbiblical?

This is not the Teaching of the Catholic Church. It is one more unbiblical Protestant tradition.

Then is it okay for to discard the non-Tradition, non-biblical irrational innovation of papal infallibility ex cathedra

No. Catholic Teaching is based upon Sacred Tradition, confirmed in Scripture as understood and explained by the Magisterium.

But Protestant principles are derived unbiblically by an unbiblical principal.

Now, did you say that Sola Scriptura was not a doctrine be cause it is not explicit in Scripture? If that is true, which of the 5 Solas is explicit in Scripture? I can’t think of any. Does that mean none of them are doctrine?