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BobCatholic
Guest
A repost of why I believe sola scriptura cannot be practiced.
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epostle
Guest
SCRIPTURE AND CHURCH FOR DUMMIES
an inside look at pre-bible authority
Too many hearts of Roman government officials had been won over by the love of the Christians. Imagine how repentant these Roman converts must have felt, knowing that they and 6 or 7 generations previous, would watch brutal atrocites as a form of entertainment. Returning seized property back to Christians was one item in the Edict of Milan, and religious persecution against any religion was now illegal. There must have been a flurry of activity in the Church before that, and for the next twelve years. When Arius stepped on the scene, the Roman Emporer was worried about the social upheaval dividing the empire, and the Pope was worried about too many bishops infected with the Arian virus. It was time for the Church to proclaim how she always worked. It took so long because they didn’t have cell phones and fax machines. The Holy Spirit called the Church to the Council of Nicae 12 years after the Edict of Milan. The Emporer (Constantine) and the Pope collaborated on the where and when. Simply put, Constantine set up the table and chairs, but he never sat in any of them.
They talked about Arianism, structure, duties, and of course, scripture.
an inside look at pre-bible authority
Too many hearts of Roman government officials had been won over by the love of the Christians. Imagine how repentant these Roman converts must have felt, knowing that they and 6 or 7 generations previous, would watch brutal atrocites as a form of entertainment. Returning seized property back to Christians was one item in the Edict of Milan, and religious persecution against any religion was now illegal. There must have been a flurry of activity in the Church before that, and for the next twelve years. When Arius stepped on the scene, the Roman Emporer was worried about the social upheaval dividing the empire, and the Pope was worried about too many bishops infected with the Arian virus. It was time for the Church to proclaim how she always worked. It took so long because they didn’t have cell phones and fax machines. The Holy Spirit called the Church to the Council of Nicae 12 years after the Edict of Milan. The Emporer (Constantine) and the Pope collaborated on the where and when. Simply put, Constantine set up the table and chairs, but he never sat in any of them.
They talked about Arianism, structure, duties, and of course, scripture.
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epostle
Guest
They talked about Arianism, structure, duties, and of course, scripture.
Allow me to explain how the bible was proven to be inspired in the 3rd century, not the 15TH OR THE 21st., using the facts of history. There is a summary below.
The Bible is initially approached as any other ancient work. It is not, at first, presumed to be inspired. From textual criticism we are able to conclude that we have a text the accuracy of which is more certain than the accuracy of any other ancient work.
Next we take a look at what the Bible, considered merely as a history, tells us, focusing particularly on the New Testament, and more specifically the Gospels.
We examine the account contained therein of Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection. Using what is in the Gospels themselves and what we find in extra-biblical writings from the early centuries,
We then take that and together with what we know of human nature (and what we can otherwise, from natural reason alone, know of divine nature), we conclude that either Jesus was just what he claimed to be—God—or he was crazy.
Further, Christ said he would found a Church. Both the Bible (still taken as merely a historical book, not yet as an inspired one) and other ancient works attest to the fact that Christ established a Church with the rudiments of what we see in the Catholic Church today—papacy, hierarchy, priesthood, sacraments, teaching authority, and, as a consequence of the last, infallibility.
Christ’s Church, to do what he said it would do, had to have the character of doctrinal infallibility.
We have thus taken purely historical material and concluded that a Church exists, namely, the Catholic Church, which is divinely protected against teaching doctrinal error. Now we are at the last premise of the argument.
This Catholic Church tells us the
(2)Bible is inspired, and we can take the Church’s word for it precisely because the
(1)Church is infallible.
Only after having been told by a properly constituted authority—
(1) that is, one established by God to assure us of the truth concerning matters of faith—
(2) that the Bible is inspired can we reasonably begin to use it as an inspired book.
I took most of the information from catholic.com/library/Proving_Inspiration.asp , and reformatted for the sake of simplicity.
Dizzy? This SUMMARY of a summary should clarify:
hacked from
catholic.com/library/Proving_Inspiration.asp
In no way have I made the Church above Scriptures. She is the servant of the Scriptures, not its master. I leave that up to the individual.
Allow me to explain how the bible was proven to be inspired in the 3rd century, not the 15TH OR THE 21st., using the facts of history. There is a summary below.
The Bible is initially approached as any other ancient work. It is not, at first, presumed to be inspired. From textual criticism we are able to conclude that we have a text the accuracy of which is more certain than the accuracy of any other ancient work.
Next we take a look at what the Bible, considered merely as a history, tells us, focusing particularly on the New Testament, and more specifically the Gospels.
We examine the account contained therein of Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection. Using what is in the Gospels themselves and what we find in extra-biblical writings from the early centuries,
We then take that and together with what we know of human nature (and what we can otherwise, from natural reason alone, know of divine nature), we conclude that either Jesus was just what he claimed to be—God—or he was crazy.
Further, Christ said he would found a Church. Both the Bible (still taken as merely a historical book, not yet as an inspired one) and other ancient works attest to the fact that Christ established a Church with the rudiments of what we see in the Catholic Church today—papacy, hierarchy, priesthood, sacraments, teaching authority, and, as a consequence of the last, infallibility.
Christ’s Church, to do what he said it would do, had to have the character of doctrinal infallibility.
We have thus taken purely historical material and concluded that a Church exists, namely, the Catholic Church, which is divinely protected against teaching doctrinal error. Now we are at the last premise of the argument.
This Catholic Church tells us the
(2)Bible is inspired, and we can take the Church’s word for it precisely because the
(1)Church is infallible.
Only after having been told by a properly constituted authority—
(1) that is, one established by God to assure us of the truth concerning matters of faith—
(2) that the Bible is inspired can we reasonably begin to use it as an inspired book.
I took most of the information from catholic.com/library/Proving_Inspiration.asp , and reformatted for the sake of simplicity.
Dizzy? This SUMMARY of a summary should clarify:
- On the first level we argue to the reliability of the Bible insofar as it is history.
- From that we conclude that an infallible Church was founded.
- And then we take the word of that infallible Church that the Bible is inspired.
- This is not a circular argument because the final conclusion (the Bible is inspired) is not simply a restatement of its initial finding (the Bible is historically reliable),
- and its initial finding (the Bible is historically reliable) is in no way based on the final conclusion (the Bible is inspired).
hacked from
catholic.com/library/Proving_Inspiration.asp
In no way have I made the Church above Scriptures. She is the servant of the Scriptures, not its master. I leave that up to the individual.
V
Valke2
Guest
God had not yet revealed Himself to a people at the time of Noah. There’s nothing in scripture to indicate that God had previously spoken to Noah or that Noah worshipped God (or was required to worship God).
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EJTMJR
Guest
Nick, I did not see where you replied re the above.
1 Timothy 3:15
15but in case I am delayed, I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth.
'Cuz the Bible tells me so.
God Bless,
Michael
you asked where it says the Church is the pillar.
You were answered from Scripture and it seems you ignored the answer.
Would you care to comment?
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