Sola Scriptura makes everyone their own "personal pope"

[Pierre_Marie]

If religious revelation is by the Bible alone, then that makes everyone that believes in Sola Scriptura to be their own personal, infallible, “pope”.

Discuss.

 

[Syele]

The pope of the protestant is not themselves but he Holy Spirit. Too bad they don’t all listen to Him, Just as many Catholics don’t listen to the Pope.

 

[Eileen_T]

I think the OP means every Protestant believes their own interpretation, whatever they believe Scripture means, is infallible.

That leaves everyone open to errors in thought while believing the Holy Spirit has revealed it to them (or whoever has convinced them of a particular interpretation.

 

[Chancellare]

The pope of the protestant is not themselves but he Holy Spirit. Too bad they don’t all listen to Him, Just as many Catholics don’t listen to the Pope.

I listen and pray to the Holy Spirit too.
But in the Protestant system, when it is time to speak,
It’s not easy to hear thousands of different interpretations of what the Holy Spirit said on any subject.

 

[love4mary]

I rely on the Holy Spirit to guide me when I read scripture and sometimes He speaks to me through scripture. But when it comes to interpertations of what the meaning of scripture is, I listen to the church which is 2000 years old, established by Jesus and constantly lead by the same Holy Spirit.

 

[JoeyWarren]

Syele said:
The pope of the protestant is not themselves but he Holy Spirit. Too bad they don’t all listen to Him, Just as many Catholics don’t listen to the Pope.

Originally Posted by onenow1 forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif
Hi,
Statistics, statistics, statistics wow ! here’s some real statistics.

1. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans the Eucharist is the true presence of Christ and tell the Baptists it’s a symbol ?

2. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Methodists it is alright to have female ministers, and tell the Baptists its unbiblical ?

3.How can the Holy Spirit tell the Seventh day Adventists that Saturday is the day of worship and tell the Presbyterians the day of worship, is Sunday not Saturday ?

4.How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans that the Blessed Virgin Mary was and remains a virgin, and then tells the Baptists she had other children ?

5. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Baptists ‘once saved always saved’, and tell the Church of Christ that Sola fide is unscriptural ?

6. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Episcopalians to baptize infants and tell the Pentecostals infant baptism is invalid ?

7. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Mormans that the Holy Trinity is three seperate persons, and then tell the Methodists the Trinity is three persons in one God ?

It does not take a lot of common sense to realize the Holy Spirit is not speaking to each one of these denominations. There’s fourteen differences in the above alone and there are many, many more, these are the fruits of, [Holy scripture alone].

Sermon on the gospel of John by Martin luther, Chapters 14-16, in vol. 24 of Luther’s works. " we concede as we must that so much of what they [the Catholic Church] say is true: that the Papacy has God’s word and the office of the Apostles, and that we have received the Holy Scriptures, Baptism, the sacrement, and the pulpit from them. What would we know of these if it were not for them ?

*Peace *
OneNow1

 

[Syele]

  	 				Originally Posted by **onenow1** [forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif](http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=2048166#post2048166)

Hi,
Statistics, statistics, statistics wow ! here’s some real statistics.

1. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans the Eucharist is the true presence of Christ and tell the Baptists it’s a symbol ?

2. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Methodists it is alright to have female ministers, and tell the Baptists its unbiblical ?

3.How can the Holy Spirit tell the Seventh day Adventists that Saturday is the day of worship and tell the Presbyterians the day of worship, is Sunday not Saturday ?

4.How can the Holy Spirit tell the Lutherans that the Blessed Virgin Mary was and remains a virgin, and then tells the Baptists she had other children ?

5. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Baptists ‘once saved always saved’, and tell the Church of Christ that Sola fide is unscriptural ?

6. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Episcopalians to baptize infants and tell the Pentecostals infant baptism is invalid ?

7. How can the Holy Spirit tell the Mormans that the Holy Trinity is three seperate persons, and then tell the Methodists the Trinity is three persons in one God ?

It does not take a lot of common sense to realize the Holy Spirit is not speaking to each one of these denominations. There’s fourteen differences in the above alone and there are many, many more, these are the fruits of, [Holy scripture alone].

Sermon on the gospel of John by Martin luther, Chapters 14-16, in vol. 24 of Luther’s works. " we concede as we must that so much of what they [the Catholic Church] say is true: that the Papacy has God’s word and the office of the Apostles, and that we have received the Holy Scriptures, Baptism, the sacrement, and the pulpit from them. What would we know of these if it were not for them ?

*Peace *
OneNow1

None of those denominations believe that the Holy Spirit really gave all those conflicting instructions. They are not fruits of following the Holy Spirit nor of following Holy Scripture. If they were they’d all agree. It is the fruit of being deceived and NOT listening to the Holy Spirit when interpreting Scripture.

As for what we’d know of the sacrements without Catholicism… Catholicism is part of the heritage of protestantism so it seems an odd questions to ask. Who would I be without my parents? I wouldn’t exist at all. This however does not prove the infallibility of my parents.

 

[Syele]

If religious revelation is by the Bible alone, then that makes everyone that believes in Sola Scriptura to be their own personal, infallible, “pope”.

Discuss.

I have never met a protestant who believes they are infallible. I can only imagine the reaction of their fellow church members if they were to say something like that.

 

[Allweather]

As for what we’d know of the sacrements without Catholicism… Catholicism is part of the heritage of protestantism so it seems an odd questions to ask. Who would I be without my parents? I wouldn’t exist at all. This however does not prove the infallibility of my parents.

In a sense, it does. Your parents are the infallible co-creators, along with God, of YOU. Only your particular mother and particular father, along with the particular God who guided your conception, could have produced particular YOU.

So where would Protestantism be without Catholicism? More importantly, how much more cogent a force for Christ in the world would the Catholic Church be if all the separated brethren came home to join the work?

 

[Syele]

In a sense, it does. Your parents are the infallible co-creators, along with God, of YOU. Only your particular mother and particular father, along with the particular God who guided your conception, could have produced particular YOU.

So where would Protestantism be without Catholicism? More importantly, how much more cogent a force for Christ in the world would the Catholic Church be if all the separated brethren came home to join the work?

This is just my point, you are assuming I think Catholicism should have never been (or something?) I just said it was part of protestantisms heritage.

Protesters believe the Catholic Church fell into error. You are asking me where it’d be if it hadn’t? Well that’d be awesome. You can spend days now with the same arguments that it didn’t fall into error but if those arguments haven’t convinced me up to now, why do you think repeating them would? Do you have a new approach? Or is accusing me of not listening to the Holy Spirit and calling me my own pope your best shot?

edit:It looks like I meant to talk only to allweather but the post is meant to be directed generally.

 

[Allweather]

Protesters believe the Catholic Church fell into error. You are asking me where it’d be if it hadn’t? Well that’d be awesome. You can spend days now with the same arguments that it didn’t fall into error but if those arguments haven’t convinced me up to now, why do you think repeating them would? Do you have a new approach? Or is accusing me of not listening to the Holy Spirit and calling me my own pope your best shot?

I don’t have a problem believing that there is and has been “error” within the Catholic Church. There is error, and then there is error. It is very possible for the Pope, who is a sinner like the rest of us, to make a mistake. Obviously, there have been some seriously sinful popes, such as a few just prior to the beginning of the Reformation. No question, the papacy needed reforming at that time, and it WAS reformed, and we have had no popes since then on the order of Alexander VI.

In today’s Church, we have some bishops who are in error. I’m thinking men like Lefevre, and that Milingo archbishop who was recently excommunicated for failing to obey the pope regarding his marriage to a Korean massage therapist. These men are in error, but their error doesn’t infect the Church at large, mainly because we have an authority mechanism which can deal with their error. The Church will always have error of this sort, because bishops are sinful men, like any other.

Back when I was in conversion process, a priest made the point to me that, yes, there have been many highly placed sinners in the Catholic Church, who have done great damage, but the kernal of the gospel has never been affected by them. This is one very strong evidence that the Lord is watching over his Church. If he weren’t watching over it, surely the kernal of the Gospel would have been lost long ago… surely it couldn’t have survived, intact, for 2 thousand years, and still going strong.

 

[dessert]

When I was in the protestant church I thought I was ‘led of God’ and if I made a mistake then ‘the devil was against me’ and if I got it all together you know the right timing then ‘I was in God’s will’.

All this rationalizing was so confusing i never knew what was His will and I’m glad I don’t have to worry about all that now as I have the Catholic Church to guide me along the way and you know what I hear th Holy Spirit NOW Amazing

My poor priest I would go to confession fretting nad on and on and he was understanding as I thought constantly about doing something wrong more so when I was feeling condemened.
Dessert

 

[onenow1]

Hi,
St.Clement of Rome, Letter to the Corinthians: Accept our council and you will have nothing to regret. Origon , and St. Jerome identify Clement as working with St.Paul.

John 5:39 You search the scriptures because you think that in it you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me; yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

John 20:30, Many signs also Jesus worked in sight of his disciples, which are not written in this book.

John 21:25 Many other things Jesus did, but if everyone of these things were to be written, not even the world itself I think could hold the books that would have been written.

2John 1: 12, Though I have much to write to you I would rather not use paper and ink, but talk with you face to face, so our joy may be complete.

It appears even then authority was not respected, even John the Apostle’s,authority was challanged.

Peace
OneNow1

 

[DaveBj]

One thing that God wants for His Church is that it be unified (John 17:21, 1 Cor 12:12, Eph. 4:1-6, etc.).

Since God wants His Church to be unified, it is logical to conclude that anything that would cause disunity in the Church is against the will of God.

What is the result of the 16th-century innovations of sola scriptura and the individual right of interpretation? Thousands of competing denominations and splinter groups, leading to complete disunity within the Protestant movement.

Ergo, sola scriptura and the individual right of interpretation must be against the will of God.

DaveBj

 

[rbarcia]

In a sense, it does. Your parents are the infallible co-creators, along with God, of YOU. Only your particular mother and particular father, along with the particular God who guided your conception, could have produced particular YOU.

Is Israel then an infallible parent of Christianity?

So where would Protestantism be without Catholicism? More importantly, how much more cogent a force for Christ in the world would the Catholic Church be if all the separated brethren came home to join the work?

Gen 11

5 But the LORD came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built. 6 And the LORD said, “Indeed the people are one and they all have one language, and this is what they begin to do; now nothing that they propose to do will be withheld from them. 7 Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.” 8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from there over the face of all the earth, and they ceased building the city. 9 Therefore its name is called Babel, because there the LORD confused the language of all the earth; and from there the LORD scattered them abroad over the face of all the earth.

 

[2BAC0905]

What’s wrong with being your own personal pope? Should we take him in the bedroom, into all our daily decisions or should we think on our own using the built in light inside of us?

 

[Spirithound]

What’s wrong with being your own personal pope? Should we take him in the bedroom, into all our daily decisions or should we think on our own using the built in light inside of us?

How do you know your light’s working properly?

 

[Eileen_T]

Originally Posted by 2BAC0905
What’s wrong with being your own personal pope? Should we take him in the bedroom, into all our daily decisions or should we think on our own using the built in light inside of us?

I don’t take the Pope into my bedroom, but God is there as the Third Person in my marriage covenant.

Jesus appointed a Prime Minister. In the OT the King had a PM. In NZ we have a Prime Minister who is appointed by the people - at least, those who can be bothered to vote. The Church is not a democracy. In the NT, the remaining apostles were the ones who voted on the successor of Judas.

Just because it is not recorded, do you really think they did not replace those who were martyred? That makes no sense.

 

[chimera]

You are suggesting that the Pope is Prime Minister, with the apostles being the Cabinet? That is a sad kingdom which has had 1700 years of civil war, with bishops in each feudal domain sending Catholics to kill Catholics of the other baron’s men-at-arms. Then battling against Protestants, then joining Prots. to fight Catholic-Prots. of the other modern nation. Should some-one check the electrical system of the lights?
chimera

 

[Allweather]

Is Israel then an infallible parent of Christianity?

It sure seems so. I don’t see how you can have Christianity without Judaism (I assume that is what you mean by Israel). It appears to be the way God designed the whole thing. I have no problem with using the word infallible in this sense.

I think I’m missing your point.