Sola Scriptura--now I get

[Pax]

kujo313:

Peter, yep, when he said that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. NOT the Peter that denied Jesus three times.

Also, I guess the Red Wings will win if some high-ranking catholic says so?
Is the pope a Wings fan? (He wears red and white alot. Mmmm!)

Didn’t you understand what MrS was saying to you in that post? There is a difference between impeccability and infallibility. Moreover, the Pope is only protected from making an error in matters of faith and morals that are to be believed by the entire Church.

 

[Giver]

Pax:

Okay, true enough. If “every” Christian refused to kill anyone than Hitler wouldn’t have had a large enough army willing to wage his crazy expansionist war. This, however, would not have applied to the Japanese since they had very few Christians in their country.

Your argument fails because there are lots of people that are not Christians. Moreover, you really cannot argue that Hitler and his Nazis party were Christian. The fact is that wars happen and people have a right to defend themselves against aggressors. If you do not understand this fact and believe that the aggressor will not be an aggressor simply because his opponent is a Christian pacifist then you know little or nothing about what happened to man with the fall of Adam and Eve. Moreover, you know nothing of history.

I will say it once more. When the topic of self defense was discussed at length on a thread that you started, your point was refuted by scripture. You simply don’t know what you are talking about.

Can’t you see that Jesus could have stopped Japan Just as he stopped Egypt when they came after Moses?

 

[Giver]

Pax:

In common with whom…your immediate family? Give me a break…you are grasping at straws. Is your car registered in your name?

Pax, why is it so hard for you to accept, God told me I would lose everything I owned if I gave my life to him, and I did and I still don’t own anything of value. Now I have to have tools etc. to do my job, but so did Jesus. I have nothing set aside for a rainy day. I have trusted Jesus for over thirty years, and I still trust him to make sure that I survive. He told me that if I would keep my eyes on him he would take care of me and guide me.

 

[kujo313]

You opened it, too.

Name something in the Bible that ain’t clear. I’m not saying that I’m right. I’m not saying that I’m better than anybody. But what is so hard about it?

Romans 3:23
“For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.”
We all have sin in our hearts. We all were born with sin. We were born under the power of sin’s control.
Admit that you are a sinner.

Romans 6:23a
“…The wages of sin is death…”
Sin has an ending. It results in death. We all face physical death, which is a result of sin.
But a worse death is spiritual death that alienates us from God, and will last for all eternity.
The Bible does plainly teach that there is a place called the Lake of Fire where lost people will be in torment forever.
It is the place where people end up that remain spiritually dead.
Understand that you deserve death for your sin.

Romans 6:23b
“…But the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
Salvation is a free gift from God to you! We can’t earn this gift, but we must reach out and receive it.
Ask God to forgive you and save you.

Romans 5:8
“God demonstrates His own love for us, in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us!”
When Jesus died on the cross He paid sin’s penalty. He paid the cosmic price for all sin, and when He took all the sins of the world on Himself on the cross, He bought us out of slavery to sin and death! The only condition is that we believe in Him and what He has done for us, understanding that we are now joined with Him, and that He is our life.
Because He loved us and gave Himself for us!
Give your life to God… His love poured out in Jesus on the cross is your only hope to have forgiveness and change. His love bought you out of being a slave to sin. His love is what saves you. Not religion, or church membership.
God loves you! And reaches you right where you are.

Romans 10:13
“Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved!”
Call out to God in the name of Jesus!

Romans 10:9,10
“…If you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Jesus from the dead, you shall be saved; for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.”
If you know that God is knocking on your heart door,
ask Him to come into your heart.

Jesus said,
Revelation 3:20a
“Behold I stand at the door and knock, if anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him…”
Is Jesus knocking on your heart’s door?

Believe in Him. Ask Him to come in to your heart by faith, and ask Him to reveal Himself to you. Open the bible to the gospel of John and read what God says about Jesus, about you, and about being born again. (See John 3)

John 1:12
“As many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God,
even to those who believe in His name!”

ALL believers in Christ are priests (1 Peter 2:4-9), they ALL have direct access to God (Romans 5:1-2). Jesus made the final sacrifice for sin on the cross almost two thousand years ago. A constant priestly sacrifice of the Eucharist is absolutely unnecessary and unscriptural (Hebrews 10:11-18).

All from Scripture.

One “tradition” that you can explain to me is the brown scapular?

evangelicaloutreach.org/scapular.htm
lasvegasmariancenter.com/brown.htm

That is grossly idolitry. Definately not what was taught by Jesus or His disciples. This devotion to Mary started over 1200 years after Jesus.

So, you see, root yourself in the Word, and don’t wander away or go off on a tangent.

Don’t tell me that Catholics don’t worship Mary. Popes did (Pope John XXII, Pope Pius Xl, and Pope Benedict XV)

It’s not Biblical. Wasn’t taught by Jesus, John, Peter or Paul. It’s not in the “gospel” of Mary Magdeline.

 

[TobyLue]

      Originally Posted by **Giver**

*A Christian who has been baptized with the Holy Spirit doesn’t interpret scripture alone.
…
… *

Then why do you?

PAX :tsktsk::tsktsk: Have you missed some of Giver’s post? He does not interpret scripture. He hears Jesus voice and Jesus has told him that the CC is wrong. For that matter, Jesus has told Giver that no Christian Church is teaching the truth so Jesus is giving Giver one-on-one teachings and has ordered him to straighten out the CC and Giver questions why we are not listening to him. Uh, I mean why are we not listening to Jesus since Giver is giving the CC the correct interpretation of scripture from Jesus himself.

C U all next week.

 

[St.Eric]

kujo313:

You opened it, too.

Name something in the Bible that ain’t clear. I’m not saying that I’m right. I’m not saying that I’m better than anybody. But what is so hard about it?

.

Is this crystal clear? And if so, then how? What does it really mean?:

Matthew 5:29-31 NIV

If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

 

[onesimplemind]

kujo313:

Name something in the Bible that ain’t clear. I’m not saying that I’m right. I’m not saying that I’m better than anybody. But what is so hard about it?

First you claim that your interpretation is correct and that Jesus explains everything clearly. Then you toss around Scripture like you know what everything means. Next you call Catholics a bunch of gross idolators. After that you wonder what is in the Bible that isn’t clear.

After all your preaching you admit that you are not saying that you are right. Right after that you say you are no better than anybody else…

I am not clear what you are saying.

 

[montanaman]

kujo313:

Someone has to be right based the command and promise of Jesus. Is it you?

And that brings me to a previous post…

…I would like to know how you have the most correct interpretation of the Bible

“Command and promise of Jesus.”

That clashes with catholic “tradition.” If the “tradition” does not agree with Scripture, then tradition MUST be true because the “pope” says so??
Again, I have to go back to where catholic tradition accepts Mary as its “mother”. Nowhere does it say that the origional apostles accepted her as their mother. BUT, since CATHOLIC TRADITION says in 1950 that Mary IS the mother of God, then that rule has to be true all the way back to the first century because somebody between the 2nd and 20th centuries said so.
The apostles didnt follow it, but somehow they didn’t have a clue according to everybody else. IF it WAS so important, even Paul would’ve mentioned it. After all, he was stoned almost to the point of death THREE TIMES. He would’ve wrote it somewhere.
Something of THAT importance should’ve been mentioned.

But not even once.

…I would like to know how you have the most correct interpretation

Me? Or is it the KJV, NIV, NASB or whatever?

Or can THIS answer your question for you:

Let’s just say, for arguement, that I invited you over and you accepted.
On my door, you see “No Smoking”. I let you in and I tell you that there is no smoking in my house. I even tell you that I don’t smoke and that I never did start because I don’t like it.
Yet, clearly seen in my house, is used ashtrays and an open pack of cigarettes on the table with a lighter.
We go to sit at my table and while we’re talking, I take out a cigarette and light it. I don’t just light it, I inhale it with ease and even blow smoke rings in the air like a pro.
Still, in your face, I tell you that I don’t smoke.

Jesus said on the cross, “behold your mother” and John takes Mary to HIS house and cares for her as if she was his own mother.
Yet, according to catholic tradition, Jesus “meant” to say that Mary is OUR mother.
Looking at the writings of the apostles, and in the entire book of Acts, we never see the apostles refering to Mary in any high honor at all.
WHAT??? HOW COULD THEY??? After Jesus told them to!
But, wait! Let’s look into the writings of Peter. Afterall, HE’S the first “pope”! Certainly HE should have it in there.
Nope. Not in there.

Maybe the apostles didn’t have a clue. Maybe there’s something they just simply “missed”, or “forgot”. Oops!

Or maybe Mary was “downplayed” because it wasn’t about her, or anybody else. It was about JESUS.

Catholic “tradition” has her as “Queen of Heaven”, “Queen of the Universe”, “Queen Mother”, and other titles that I could find if I did a Google search.

This catholic “tradition” is so far outside the box that she is concidered just a cosmic being as the Trinity.

Sorry, the Universe does not have a Goddess… except the catholic church.

Sola Scriptula? No. “Acts of the Apostles” or “ACTIONS of the Apostles.” Even the “traditions” of the apostles.

PLEASE don’t tell me that the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th generation apostles got it right.

And the “rock” that Jesus mentioned: it’s the declaration that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God. He’s been called the cornerstone more than once in the Word.

So, my intrepretation of the Bible is just what is WRITTEN in it and what the apostles DID after Jesus explained things CLEARLY.
Mary is mentioned JUST ENOUGH in the Bible that we need to know and not take our focus off the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world. The “Door”. The “Gate”.

It ain’t rocket science.

Ignorance and sophistry.

TO ALL CATHOLICISM CRITICS:

Please educate yourselves about the Church before you bring your poorly-informed prejudices to this board. It might hurt, but you should refer to Catholic sources, not anti-Catholic commentary.

When you’ve got a good handle on what the Church teaches and why it teaches it, whether you agree with it or not, THEN you can come here and engage in debate. Unless you know what you’re talking about, you will continue to be treated as bigots. (At least by me).

Thanks.

 

[Philthy]

Angainor:

The Constitution is clear. The Federal government has no power to tell the states what laws they can or cannot enforce regarding abortion.

The states would be within their rights to ignore Roe v Wade and enforce thier anti-abortion laws.

Really? Then why did the case come before the Supreme Court in the first place? That’s the whole point - it came before the Supreme Court to make a ruling. And guess what - the decision was NOT UNANIMOUS. You are dreaming if you believe the issue regarding abortion is “clearly” addressed by our constitution. Pure fantasy to believe that the issue of right to life for an unborn or partially born infant is clearly articulated as being superceded by a mothers right to privacy.

 

[AquinasXVI]

kujo313:

Don’t tell me that Catholics don’t worship Mary. Popes did (Pope John XXII, Pope Pius Xl, and Pope Benedict XV)

CATHOLICS NEVER WORSHIPPED MARY. BUT WE LOVE HER MUCH AS WE CAN…for she is the one that Christ chose out of all of humanity to be His mother. If she was good enough (Hail Full of Grace, The Lord is with you-St. Gabriel) for Jesus to call 'Mama" then she’s good enough for me to call her “Mama.”

No offense but your knowledge of Catholicism is so twisted. You probably think we’re all made of brick that do not have feelings, cognitive thought or a soul. That we’re robots that have been brainwashed by the Magisterium.

Whoever taught you these things about got it all wrong and passed it onto you.

For your own integrity, take the earlier suggestion and READ UP on history and the development of doctrine. PRAY that God grant you illumination for many of what you think is simply not true.

For the most part, everyone has been charitable to the erroneous accusations that you’ve leveled against us. But I ask you to go ahead and accuse us all day of what we truly believe as opposed to what you think we believe.

in XT.

 

[Philthy]

Giver # 584:

It is very, very sad when someone has been taught that they can’t even trust the leadings and teachings of Jesus and the Holy Spirit.

Hi Giver-

I think much of what you have to offer is worthwhile and sincere and although we disagree on some things I thank you for what I believe to be well-intentioned dialogue.
With respect to your above statement however, it is not so much a Church teaching, as it is a personal experience and an observation of my own. The Catholic Church does not generally get into the business of Scripture interpretations - it provides the fundamentals of the faith through writings and generally supports them with Scripture.
The Church does not condemn anyone for possession of a material good - but it does condemn them if possession of that good is in conflict with loving God completely, failing to share with the poor/needy, etc. Notice the difference: the Church is not judging us - they respect COMPLETELY the human conscience as divinely composed. It is for each individual to judge his own circumstances in accordance with the teachings of Christ and how his personal behavior may be in conflict with broad guidelines such as “love God” - the Church simply tries to more fully articulate those teachings as they apply to our world and to circumstances that didn’t necessarily exist at the time of Christ.
Is it a sin to drink a glass of wine socially? I may personally be convicted by the holy Spirit that in my life it is a sin, but that may not apply to all - and the Church fully respects each persons INDIVIDUALLY formed conscience - in accordance with the promptings of the holy Spirit - to make such a distinction. What the Church will do is speak to specific issues which are always sinful - such as adultery - and be firm in saying that there are NO circumstances in which it is condoned - regardless of what an individual believes. That, in no way, is “being taught not to trust the leadings and teachings of Jesus and the Holy Spirit” .

 

[Philthy]

kujo313:

Some “traditions” of the catholic religion come from one, single verse in the Bible taken completely out of context.

There is nothing in the Catholic Church which “comes from one, single verse in the Bible”. The Church’s Tradition comes from the Apostles - they were around a long time before the Bible. It is every other version of a church that comes from an interpretation of the Bible.

kujo313:

Yet, the catholic religion is right because the catholic religion says so, despite it contradicting the actions of the apostles.

And this, in itself, is an interpretation. The Catholic Church has the foundation of Peter which is a prerequisite (which HAPPENS to be mentioned in the Bible), the lineage, the history, the gift of the holy Spirit, and the witnesses of the faithful to back it up. I don’t denigrade all the good that other churches and their faithful have - it is simply my observation that the Catholic Church has the whole package: One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic…

 

[Giver]

Philthy:

Hi Giver-

I think much of what you have to offer is worthwhile and sincere and although we disagree on some things I thank you for what I believe to be well-intentioned dialogue.
With respect to your above statement however, it is not so much a Church teaching, as it is a personal experience and an observation of my own. The Catholic Church does not generally get into the business of Scripture interpretations - it provides the fundamentals of the faith through writings and generally supports them with Scripture.
The Church does not condemn anyone for possession of a material good - but it does condemn them if possession of that good is in conflict with loving God completely, failing to share with the poor/needy, etc. Notice the difference: the Church is not judging us - they respect COMPLETELY the human conscience as divinely composed. It is for each individual to judge his own circumstances in accordance with the teachings of Christ and how his personal behavior may be in conflict with broad guidelines such as “love God” - the Church simply tries to more fully articulate those teachings as they apply to our world and to circumstances that didn’t necessarily exist at the time of Christ.
Is it a sin to drink a glass of wine socially? I may personally be convicted by the holy Spirit that in my life it is a sin, but that may not apply to all - and the Church fully respects each persons INDIVIDUALLY formed conscience - in accordance with the promptings of the holy Spirit - to make such a distinction. What the Church will do is speak to specific issues which are always sinful - such as adultery - and be firm in saying that there are NO circumstances in which it is condoned - regardless of what an individual believes. That, in no way, is “being taught not to trust the leadings and teachings of Jesus and the Holy Spirit” .

Your explanation isn’t far from what I have been led to believe. Jesus hasn’t personally explained to me what he meant when he told us: (Luke 14:33) “So in the same way, none of you can be my disciple unless he gives up all his possessions.”, but in many ways he has shown me how he would prefer us to live. I agree though it is no ones job to tell someone else how to live any Word of God. That is Jesus’ (Holy Spirit), job.

I share what Jesus has taught me, but that’s not trying, or expecting anyone to accept my teachings. Hopefully what my sharing will do is have people question any given teaching, and instead of asking another person for answers, understand they can go to Jesus for answers. I also believe, because everyone may be in a different place in his or her growth toward God, that Jesus’ teaching may be somewhat different for each person. I believe Jesus is the perfect teacher. He knows what some one already knows and their understanding of words.

I have no agenda other then to do what Jesus told me to do. Thirty years ago he told me a time was coming soon where man would suffer more than he ever has. I was to give a word, and leave. Out of that word a community would grow. He wanted a place of safety for his people. No he never has given me any explanation or understanding of that word. I was give a vision of a Community, but when, where or how many I have no idea.

 

[jim1130]

Giver:

Second World War a just war? Christians were killing Christians, is that Just. Christians killing anyone is that Just?

Just think if all Christians at the time would have obeyed Jesus and not become killers, but in stead got down on their knees and prayed, who would have fought in that war. I believe Jesus would have stoped Hitler with out all the horror that accrued.

Peace.

Imagine Ghandi if he would have exerted his “non-violence” actions against Hitler and Nazism rather than the British and you may have your answer. No disrespect intended, please.

Peace.

 

[montanaman]

Giver says:

Hopefully what my sharing will do is have people question any given teaching, and instead of asking another person for answers, understand they can go to Jesus for answers.

Jesus says:

If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

St. Paul Says:

if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

Are we up to five volumes of “Reasons why Giver is a false prophet” yet? Last I checked, it was only up to three.

 

[Mickey]

Giver:

Your explanation isn’t far from what I have been led to believe. Jesus hasn’t personally explained to me what he meant when he told us: (Luke 14:33) “So in the same way, none of you can be my disciple unless he gives up all his possessions.”,

It is not sinful to have worldly possessions. It is sinful to be attached to those worldly possessions.

 

[Giver]

jim1130:

Peace.

Imagine Ghandi if he would have exerted his “non-violence” actions against Hitler and Nazism rather than the British and you may have your answer. No disrespect intended, please.

Peace.

(Matthew 6:10) “So you should pray like this: ‘Our Father in heaven, may your name be held holy, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as in heaven.”

 

[montanaman]

(Matthew 6:10) “So you should pray like this: ‘Our Father in heaven, may your name be held holy, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as in heaven.”

And like the Taliban, the Nazis got a good look at God’s will as it rained down on them.

 

[Giver]

Mickey:

It is not sinful to have worldly possessions. It is sinful to be attached to those worldly possessions.

Did that teaching come Jesus or did it come from you or some other person? Because Jesus said in Scripture: (Luke 14:33) “So in the same way, none of you can be my disciple unless he gives up all his possessions.” Now you are right Jesus didn’t say it was a sin to have possessions, but he did say that you could not be a disciple unless you gave up all your possessions.

 

[Mickey]

Giver:

Now you are right Jesus didn’t say it was a sin to have possessions, but he did say that you could not be a disciple unless you gave up all your possessions.

You answered your own question. If you cannot give them up, then you are attached to them.

The teaching comes from Jesus.