Sola Scriptura--now I get

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AquinasXVI:
Yes, I’m serious. When you say you’re not welcomed by the CC…that simply isn’t true. You may personally not welcome yourself but you are more than welcome as far as the CC is concerned. Granted, you’d have to be catechised and be humble enough to try and learn the dogmas and doctrine…and if you assent to these, then you are happily embraced.
I may not welcome myself?:rolleyes: That’s original. And not true. I “welcome myself”.

I don’t have to learn the dogmas and doctrines. I know them, well maybe not all of them, but the ones I know I do not assent to. Therefore I am not welcome.
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AquinasXVI:
It may sound like a surrender but in reality it’s liberation. Many protestants who come in invariably will say that upon understanding what the church teaches, it’s like they were set free. It’s a beautiful paradox.
Yes indeed! I imagine it is like getting set free.

Set free from being responsible for one’s own understanding of the truth (the CC does that for you).

Set free from the need to be vigilant and watchful against false teaching (the CC does that for you).

Set free from the work of upholding the truth and keeping it safe (the CC does that for you).

Handing over responsibility to someone else can be very liberating.
 
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Angainor:
I may not welcome myself?:rolleyes: That’s original. And not true. I “welcome myself”.

I don’t have to learn the dogmas and doctrines. I know them, well maybe not all of them, but the ones I know I do not assent to. Therefore I am not welcome.Yes indeed! I imagine it is like getting set free.

Set free from being responsible for one’s own understanding of the truth (the CC does that for you).

Set free from the need to be vigilant and watchful against false teaching (the CC does that for you).

Set free from the work of upholding the truth and keeping it safe (the CC does that for you).

Handing over responsibility to someone else can be very liberating.
My question to you is, how are you so different from the Eunich that Phillip ministered to in Acts 8? How DO you understand?
 
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Angainor:
I may not welcome myself?:rolleyes: That’s original. And not true. I “welcome myself”.

I don’t have to learn the dogmas and doctrines. I know them, well maybe not all of them, but the ones I know I do not assent to. Therefore I am not welcome.Yes indeed! I imagine it is like getting set free.

Set free from being responsible for one’s own understanding of the truth (the CC does that for you).

Set free from the need to be vigilant and watchful against false teaching (the CC does that for you).

Set free from the work of upholding the truth and keeping it safe (the CC does that for you).

Handing over responsibility to someone else can be very liberating.
Funny you think that for regarding OSAS that’s what we catholics think about.

I guess since you know the dogmas you’ve read the entirety of the CCC and do not assent to it.

Thanks for the reply.
in XT.
 
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MrS:
Would your church gladly welcome me if my interaction with you and yours was to proclaim the Real Presence, the invalidity of the Solas, rejection of female pastors, etc etc etc…??

I think not.

You’re elders would have to say no.
I’m glad you asked that question. You are right, you would not be welcome as a member of our congregation.

However, our congregation considers itself part of The Church, but it does not claim to be The Church. Your gatekeepers truely believe they are keeping me out of The Church.

Our congregation exists as a confessional church. That is, a congregation of Christians who associate with each other because we have a common confession of truth, that is, a common understanding of the truth. If you do not share our confessions, I do not see why we would naturally choose to associate in the same congregation. That does not mean anyone in our congregation presumes you to be outside of Christ’s Church.
 
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Angainor:
That does not mean anyone in our congregation presumes you to be outside of Christ’s Church.
“…Upon this Rock, I will build My Church…”

" … One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism…"

I = only Jesus is the founder of His Church.
yours beliefs were gathered by a man

**Build **= not in an instant… but as a growing, living body with only Christ as the head

My = His, not mine and not yours. So we have to worship Him in His way as he handed to us through the Apostles and the specific powers He gave to only them.
Your church has no authority from God, and at best can only borrow from the Catholic Church… not be a part of it.- hence separated brethren… brethren yes, but separated.

**Church **= singular… not one of many. Only the Catholic Church even claims to be that One, Holy, and Apostolic Church

If your faith, your beliefs, are different than another Congregation’s … at least one of you is wrong. Coming to Christ on His terms is not like making selections in a cafeteria.
 
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Angainor:
I may not welcome myself?:rolleyes: That’s original. And not true. I “welcome myself”.

I don’t have to learn the dogmas and doctrines. I know them, well maybe not all of them, but the ones I know I do not assent to. Therefore I am not welcome.Yes indeed! I imagine it is like getting set free.

Set free from being responsible for one’s own understanding of the truth (the CC does that for you).

Set free from the need to be vigilant and watchful against false teaching (the CC does that for you).

Set free from the work of upholding the truth and keeping it safe (the CC does that for you).

Handing over responsibility to someone else can be very liberating.
I’ve come across that sentiment a few times, and it never ceases to baffle me. Nobody checks their minds or wills at the door. 2000 years of Catholic literature is a testament to the freedom of intellect the Church engenders. (Contrast that with your generic Protestant church. My ex-girlfriend was trying to get into a Baptist church when we started dating, but because she was dating me, they wouldn’t let her. Why? Their answer was “trust us.”)

The thing is, we believe in standards. In objective truth. Protestants say they do, too, but the “average” non-denom is perfectly happy to have in their congregation someone who thinks baptism is pointless, and someone who thinks it’s absolutely essential. This is relativism, and it’s a form of slavery. It’s intellectual slavery because it surrenders the will and curiosity to the allegedly unknowable.

In the Catholic Church there’s plenty of room for inquiry. For discovery. In fact, the discovery never ends the more you embrace what’s literally, actually true.
 
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Angainor:
Besides the obvious? :eek: 😃
Good one! 😃 I do appreciate a good sense of humor. Now, can you answer the question? I truly am interested in the answer. Thank you.
 
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montanaman:
I’ve come across that sentiment a few times, and it never ceases to baffle me. Nobody checks their minds or wills at the door. 2000 years of Catholic literature is a testament to the freedom of intellect the Church engenders. (Contrast that with your generic Protestant church. My ex-girlfriend was trying to get into a Baptist church when we started dating, but because she was dating me, they wouldn’t let her. Why? Their answer was “trust us.”)

The thing is, we believe in standards. In objective truth. Protestants say they do, too, but the “average” non-denom is perfectly happy to have in their congregation someone who thinks baptism is pointless, and someone who thinks it’s absolutely essential.
I can’t answer for you XGF’s church nor the “‘average’ non-denom”.
 
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Angainor:
I can’t answer for you XGF’s church nor the “‘average’ non-denom”.
Yeah, I didn’t mean YOUR particular church. Just the typical kind I seem to come across all the time.
 
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Angainor:
I’m glad you asked that question. You are right, you would not be welcome as a member of our congregation.

However, our congregation considers itself part of The Church, but it does not claim to be The Church. Your gatekeepers truely believe they are keeping me out of The Church.

Our congregation exists as a confessional church. That is, a congregation of Christians who associate with each other because we have a common confession of truth, that is, a common understanding of the truth. If you do not share our confessions, I do not see why we would naturally choose to associate in the same congregation. That does not mean anyone in our congregation presumes you to be outside of Christ’s Church.
Here is a piece from the CCC. Our seperated brethren are not necessarily outside of Christ’s body:

816 "The sole Church of Christ [is that] which our Savior, after his Resurrection, entrusted to Peter’s pastoral care, commissioning him and the other apostles to extend and rule it… This Church, constituted and organized as a society in the present world, subsists in (subsistit in) in) the Catholic Church, which is governed by the successor of Peter and by the bishops in communion with him."267

The Second Vatican Council’s Decree on Ecumenism explains: "For it is through Christ’s Catholic Church alone, which is the universal help toward salvation, that the fullness of the means of salvation can be obtained. It was to the apostolic college alone, of which Peter is the head, that we believe that our Lord entrusted all the blessings of the New Covenant, in order to establish on earth the one Body of Christ into which all those should be fully incorporated who belong in any way to the People of God."268

Wounds to unity

817 In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270 - do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271

818 "However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers … All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276
 
Rather, they are outside of the fullnes of the truth and the one true church.
 
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St.Eric:
Our seperated brethren are not necessarily outside of Christ’s body:
I disagree with this statement and I don’t believe that the CCC paragraphs that you’ve cited support it either. If that’s the interpretation you’re arriving at, you may want to reconsider using the light of Tradition. Why don’t we see what one of the greatest saints and doctors had to say on this topic?

“What the soul is to man’s body, the Holy Spirit is to the Body of Christ, which is the Church. The Holy Spirit does in the whole Church what the soul does in all members of one body. But see what you must beware of, see what you must take note of, see what you must fear. It happens that in the human body, or rather, off the body, some member, whether hand, finger, or foot, may be cut away. And if a member be cut off, does the soul go with it? When the member was in the body, it lived; and off, its life is lost. So too, a Christian man is Catholic while he lives in the body; cut off, he is made a heretic; the Spirit does not follow an amputated member.”

We do hold many things in common with heretical Protestants and even some infidels, BUT it will not profit them:

“In many things they [the heretics] are with me, in a few things they are not with me; but in the few things which they are not with me the many things in which they are will not profit them.”

It will not profit them because:

“If any be outside the Church he will be excluded from the number of sons, and will not have God for a Father since he has not the Church for a mother.”

In conclusion…

“No man can find salvation except in the Catholic Church. Outside the Catholic Church one can have everything except salvation. One can have honor, one can have the sacraments, one can sing alleluia, one can answer amen, one can have faith in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and preach it too, but never can one find salvation except in the Catholic Church.”
 
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JSmitty2005:
Why don’t we see what one of the greatest saints and doctors had to say on this topic?
Sorry, I forgot to mention it, but those quotes in dark red are all from St. Augustine.
 
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JSmitty2005:
I disagree with this statement and I don’t believe that the CCC paragraphs that you’ve cited support it either. If that’s the interpretation you’re arriving at, you may want to reconsider using the light of Tradition. Why don’t we see what one of the greatest saints and doctors had to say on this topic?

“What the soul is to man’s body, the Holy Spirit is to the Body of Christ, which is the Church. The Holy Spirit does in the whole Church what the soul does in all members of one body. But see what you must beware of, see what you must take note of, see what you must fear. It happens that in the human body, or rather, off the body, some member, whether hand, finger, or foot, may be cut away. And if a member be cut off, does the soul go with it? When the member was in the body, it lived; and off, its life is lost. So too, a Christian man is Catholic while he lives in the body; cut off, he is made a heretic; the Spirit does not follow an amputated member.”

We do hold many things in common with heretical Protestants and even some infidels, BUT it will not profit them:

“In many things they [the heretics] are with me, in a few things they are not with me; but in the few things which they are not with me the many things in which they are will not profit them.”

It will not profit them because:

“If any be outside the Church he will be excluded from the number of sons, and will not have God for a Father since he has not the Church for a mother.”

In conclusion…

“No man can find salvation except in the Catholic Church. Outside the Catholic Church one can have everything except salvation. One can have honor, one can have the sacraments, one can sing alleluia, one can answer amen, one can have faith in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and preach it too, but never can one find salvation except in the Catholic Church.”
Your right. I think I corrected myself in post #691
 
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St.Eric:
819 "Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth"273 are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: "the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements."274 Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him,275 and are in themselves calls to "Catholic unity."276
It is correct that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church. But many people take this to mean if one is not a member of the RCC then they are damned. This isn’t necessairly the case, see the undelined above. Note, “many” elements of grace and truth are found, but not the “complete” truth. Don’t get me wrong. I am not using this as an excuse to not belong to the RCC. Especially if one comes to know the truth of the RCC- in no way can they fall away in good conscience. That would be grave matter.
 
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St.Eric:
My question to you is, how are you so different from the Eunich that Phillip ministered to in Acts 8? How DO you understand?
I went to Sunday School. I teach Sunday School. We help each other understand. I don’t want my students to take my word for it, I want to help them to come to see the truth of the Bible lessons for themselves.

Each new Christian does not have to start from scratch like he dug the Bible out of an archaeological pit. There is a community of Christians to help him come to see the truth of Scripture.
 
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Angainor:
. There is a community of Christians to help him come to see the truth of Scripture.
All the fullness of the Truth can ONLY be found in the Church begun by Truth Himself… The Catholic Church.

Martin Luther had access to it… and he chose pride instead.
 
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