Sola Scriptura--now I get

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Angainor:
That is admittedly tougher to answer. I have no assurance of certain knowledge.
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With you admitting that, lets apply Occam’s Razor to your claims, your understanding of Scripture, the complexity of the many “truths” of many denominations versus Catholic teaching and figure out what is true.

“The simplest explanation is usually the best.”
 
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JSmitty2005:
You’re right, false churches are imploding (including the Lutheran religion which allows women pastors, sodomites, and abortion).
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Yes, I agree that those Churches will not be long of this Earth.

Did you need Catholicism to tell you that? I believe all false teachings will eventually be exposed as false by their fruits, or meet various other ends as described in the Parable of the sower.

Through it all, the truth will survive.

By the way, I do not hold anything special about my church, the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. Synods and Denominations are transient man-made constructs. I do not rule out the possiblity that the LCMS could one day fall apart for one reason or another (it is led by human beings after all). Christ’s Church would live on in one form or another.
 
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Angainor:
Oh, I don’t know, maybe because it was a command to the Apostles not to be like kings who exercise authority over the Gentiles.
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Well Paul talked about how he had authority over the Corinthians so I don’t think Jesus was saying the apostles didn’t have authority. I thought he was saying that they shouldn’t exercise their authority by Lording over other people. But should rather be servant like…

If Ockham’s Razer is true “simplest explanation is normally true.” Why I’d suggest that means Catholicism. 1. We have been around for 2,000 years. And well it just makes sense… Jesus established a Church, and gave it leaders. In the Catholic church we have a legitimate way of solving problems.
 
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Angainor:
By the way, I do not hold anything special about my church, the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. Synods and Denominations are transient man-made constructs. I do not rule out the possiblity that the LCMS could one day fall apart for one reason or another (it is led by human beings after all). Christ’s Church would live on in one form or another.
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And wouldn’t that “form” retain the authority of Christ Himself? And to whom did He give authority? Only, only, the Catholic Church.

When are you coming home?
 
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JSmitty2005:
If anyone is ignoring God’s Word, it is certainly you. Eden did not rationalize nor water down God’s Word. They simply took Scripture in its entirety to come to a logical conclusion…something that you did not do by only quoting “love your enemy.” Speaking of which, what does it mean to you to “love your enemy”? Does it mean to withhold due justice? I think not. I believe (along with St. Thomas Aquinas) that to love is to will the good of another. I certainly will the good of my enemies but that does not mean that they are no longer my enemies!

That simply doesn’t make sense. If there is any rationalizing going on here, it’s not by Eden, but by this statement above. Christians are not “of the world” but we certainly live in the world.
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It sure isn’t your job to deal out justice.

(Hebrews 10:30-31) “We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will repay. And again: The Lord will judge his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”
 
Giver said:
It sure isn’t your job to deal out justice.
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(Hebrews 10:30-31) “We are all aware who it was that said: Vengeance is mine; I will repay. And again: The Lord will judge his people. It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”It’s not?

Psalms 106:3 Blessed are they that keep judgment, and do justice at all times.

Proverbs 16:5 Every proud man is an abomination to the Lord: though hand should be joined to hand, he is not innocent. The beginning of a good way is to do justice; and this is more acceptable with God, than to offer sacrifices.

Proverbs 31:9 Open thy mouth, decree that which is just, and do justice to the needy and poor.

Isaias 56:1 Thus saith the Lord: Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my justice to be revealed

1st Machabees 8:32 If therefore they come again to us complaining of thee, we will do them justice, and will make war against thee by sea and land.

Genesis 18:19 For I know that he will command his children, and his household after him to keep the way of the Lord, and do judgment and justice: that for Abraham’s sake the Lord may bring to effect all the things he hath spoken unto him.

2nd Chronicles 9:8 Blessed be the Lord thy God, who hath been pleased to set thee on his throne, king of the Lord thy God. Because God loveth Israel, and will preserve them for ever: therefore hath he made thee king over them, to do judgment and justice.

Jeremias 33:15 In those days, and at that time, I will make the bud of justice to spring forth unto David, and he shall do judgment and justice in the earth.

Ezechiel 18:5 And if a man be just, and do judgment and justice,

Ezechiel 33:14 And if I shall say to the wicked: Thou shalt surely die: and he do penance for his sin, and do judgment and justice,

Ezechiel 18:21 But if the wicked do penance for all his sins which he hath committed, and keep all my commandments, and do judgment, and justice, living he shall live, and shall not die.

Ezechiel 33:19 And when the wicked shall depart from his wickedness, and shall do judgments, and justice: he shall live in them.

Someone’s interpretation is out of balance in the context of the Word of God.
Pax vobiscum,
 
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Angainor:
The truth will live on.
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To believe that the truth will live on, you must presuppose that you have it at this moment. But yet you’ve already expressed doubt concerning your understanding of Christianity
I have no assurance of certain knowledge.
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Furthermore, the handful of “truths” that you probably hold include beliefs that have not always existed. The obvious example is the doctrine of Sola Scriptura. This is the foundation of your religion and yet it cannot be found in the history of Christendom until Father Martin Luther came along and defected from the Church. As I said above, to believe that, as you said, “through it all, the truth will survive,” you must presuppose that the truth exists now and that it has always been present in the beliefs of Christians since the time of Christ…yet this doctrine that all Protestants are sooo sure of (sola scriptura) was NOT present throughout all of the history of Christianity and was an invention of the sixteenth century! Even before Christianity, the Jews were never believers in “Scripture alone.” (refer to posts 205-207) So, the conclusion is twofold. First, Protestantism is ipso facto null and void since the Church that Christ established cannot stray from the Truth and teach error. Secondly, the only possible Church containing ALL truth must be the Catholic Church since it has existed since the time of Christ and has not changed its teaching on any doctrines or morals. Now, as a non-Catholic, I’m sure that you don’t believe that the CC is correct in all of its universal teachings on doctrines and morals, yet when you say this, you are calling Christ a liar for not keeping His promise to stay with His Church for all eternity. So, if Catholicism is false, all of Christianity is necessarily false as well.
 
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Angainor:
I do not rule out the possiblity that the LCMS could one day fall apart for one reason or another (it is led by human beings after all).
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If you believe the LCMS to be the True Church of Christ, you cannot hold such a position because Jesus told us that the gates of Hell would not prevail…ever!
 
The only possible Church containing ALL truth must be the Catholic Church since it has existed since the time of Christ and has not changed its teaching on any doctrines or morals. Now, as a non-Catholic, I’m sure that you don’t believe that the CC is correct in all of its universal teachings on doctrines and morals, yet when you say this, you are calling Christ a liar for not keeping His promise to stay with His Church for all eternity. So, if Catholicism is false, all of Christianity is necessarily false as well.

ALL? Don’t think so. Your “truth” is mixed with things made up from the 2nd century to the present PLUS “sola scriptula”.

You take “behold your mother” even though that “tradition” didn’t start with the disciples at all. If Mary would’ve been lifted up, the that’s idolatry. Peter didn’t want to be worshipped. Neither did the angel in Revelation.
We could go on and on with other things that the CC “thinks” is right, but is off the mark.
 
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kujo313:
The only possible Church containing ALL truth must be the Catholic Church since it has existed since the time of Christ and has not changed its teaching on any doctrines or morals. Now, as a non-Catholic, I’m sure that you don’t believe that the CC is correct in all of its universal teachings on doctrines and morals, yet when you say this, you are calling Christ a liar for not keeping His promise to stay with His Church for all eternity. So, if Catholicism is false, all of Christianity is necessarily false as well.

ALL? Don’t think so. Your “truth” is mixed with things made up from the 2nd century to the present PLUS “sola scriptula”.

You take “behold your mother” even though that “tradition” didn’t start with the disciples at all. If Mary would’ve been lifted up, the that’s idolatry. Peter didn’t want to be worshipped. Neither did the angel in Revelation.
We could go on and on with other things that the CC “thinks” is right, but is off the mark.
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I’m just going to assing arguments to macros…

F1: We don’t worship Mary.
F2: We don’t worship the pope.
 
I just posted this thread that I think addresses the very arguments taking place here and I’m curious as to your thoughts on original sin:

My post

BTW, didn’t Luther add the word “alone” to his approved Bible translations?
 
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montanaman:
I’m just going to assing arguments to macros…

F1: We don’t worship Mary.
F2: We don’t worship the pope.
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Shall I show the results of a Google search? Show the photos?
Dictionary.com. look it up.
 
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kujo313:
Shall I show the results of a Google search? Show the photos?
Dictionary.com. look it up.
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Peace.

Worship? No. I do not worship Mary. I do not worship the Pope. There are pictures of me worshipping Mary and the Pope on Google?

From these pictures on Google, do you know the hearts of those in the pictures?

Venerate - To regard with respect, reverence, or heartfelt deference.

Peace.
 
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kujo313:
Shall I show the results of a Google search? Show the photos?
Dictionary.com. look it up.
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Peace.

We honor Mary, St. Peter, The Apostles, the Saints, the Martyrs, the Archangels and Angels, etc.

dictionary.reference.com/search?q=honor

Honor

High respect, as that shown for special merit; esteem: the honor shown to a Nobel laureate.

Good name; reputation.

Glory or recognition; distinction.

A mark, token, or gesture of respect or distinction: the place of honor at the table.

A title conferred for achievement.

High rank.

The dignity accorded to position: awed by the honor of his office.

Great privilege: I have the honor to present the governor.

Peace.
 
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Mickey:
Why do I feel he’s not going to believe you Montana? :rolleyes:
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Why should I believe a lie as the truth? Look it up. Do a Google search and look at the photos.

May I suggest the following links (Truth hurts):

catholicconcerns.com/MaryWorship.html

remnantofgod.org/godmary.htm (with photos!)

jesus-is-lord.com/coredeem.htm

abcog.org/mary4.htm

justforcatholics.org/a64.htm

biblebb.com/files/macqa/1301-B-11.htm

harpazo.net/Queen.html

jesus-is-savior.com/pope_dope.jpg
jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/pope_prays_to_mary.htm

Don’t know about you, but it turned my stomach already. Your “pope” openly worshipped Mary.

Sorry, Truth hurts sometimes.
 
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kujo313:
Why should I believe a lie as the truth? Look it up. Do a Google search and look at the photos.

May I suggest the following links (Truth hurts):

catholicconcerns.com/MaryWorship.html

remnantofgod.org/godmary.htm (with photos!)

jesus-is-lord.com/coredeem.htm

abcog.org/mary4.htm

justforcatholics.org/a64.htm

biblebb.com/files/macqa/1301-B-11.htm

harpazo.net/Queen.html

jesus-is-savior.com/pope_dope.jpg
jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/pope_prays_to_mary.htm

Don’t know about you, but it turned my stomach already. Your “pope” openly worshipped Mary.

Sorry, Truth hurts sometimes.
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:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
 
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kujo313:
Why should I believe a lie as the truth? Look it up. Do a Google search and look at the photos.

May I suggest the following links (Truth hurts):

catholicconcerns.com/MaryWorship.html

remnantofgod.org/godmary.htm (with photos!)

jesus-is-lord.com/coredeem.htm

abcog.org/mary4.htm

justforcatholics.org/a64.htm

biblebb.com/files/macqa/1301-B-11.htm

harpazo.net/Queen.html

jesus-is-savior.com/pope_dope.jpg
jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/pope_prays_to_mary.htm

Don’t know about you, but it turned my stomach already. Your “pope” openly worshipped Mary.

Sorry, Truth hurts sometimes.
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Why does it always take so much bandwidth to explain your misunderstandings? Sorry, but the few links I checked out were simply more anti-Catholic blather. When it comes to Catholicism and Mary (or the Bible, for that matter) you guys simply don’t know what you’re talking about. “Truth hurts?” Please. You’re going to have to do better than that.
 
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