Sola Scriptura--now I get

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kujo313:
Why should I believe a lie as the truth? Look it up. Do a Google search and look at the photos.

May I suggest the following links (Truth hurts):

catholicconcerns.com/MaryWorship.html

remnantofgod.org/godmary.htm (with photos!)

jesus-is-lord.com/coredeem.htm

abcog.org/mary4.htm

justforcatholics.org/a64.htm

biblebb.com/files/macqa/1301-B-11.htm

harpazo.net/Queen.html

jesus-is-savior.com/pope_dope.jpg
jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/pope_prays_to_mary.htm

Don’t know about you, but it turned my stomach already. Your “pope” openly worshipped Mary.

Sorry, Truth hurts sometimes.
Peace.

catholicconcerns.com/MaryWorship.html - A non-Catholic Web site (yawn)

remnantofgod.org/godmary.htm (with photos!) - Another non-Catholic Web site

jesus-is-lord.com/coredeem.htm - Still another non-Catholic Web site

abcog.org/mary4.htm - Wait, ANOTHER non-Catholic Web site (I like THIS title: The Pagan Origin of Mary Worship)

justforcatholics.org/a64.htm - What is this? ANOTHER non-Catholic Web site!

biblebb.com/files/macqa/1301-B-11.htm - This is getting old (non-Catholic site)

harpazo.net/Queen.html - This one comes with a GREAT recommendation: Recommended Book & Video: “A Woman Rides the Beast” … by: Dave Hunt

jesus-is-savior.com/pope_dope.jpg - Wow. A picture. Good thing you know what is in the Pope’s heart.

jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/pope_prays_to_mary.htm - And let’s READ the Pope’s prayer: ““Queen of peace, pray for us! Our gaze is directed toward you in great fear, to you do we turn with ever-more insistent faith in these times marked by many uncertainties and fears for the present and future of our planet. Together we lift our confident and sorrowful petition to you, the first fruit of humanity redeemed by Christ, finally freed from the slavery of evil and sin: hear the cry of the pain of victims of war and so many forms of violence that bloody the earth. Clear away the darkness of sorrow and worry, of hate and vengeance. Open up our minds and hearts to faith and forgiveness!” -Pope John Paul II

Hmmmm…where is the Pope worshipping?

Peace.
 
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montanaman:
Why does it always take so much bandwidth to explain your misunderstandings? Sorry, but the few links I checked out were simply more anti-Catholic blather. When it comes to Catholicism and Mary (or the Bible, for that matter) you guys simply don’t know what you’re talking about. “Truth hurts?” Please. You’re going to have to do better than that.
You too.
 
kujo313 said:

“I got this pic off the Vatican website. Notice the huge letter “M” signifying John Paul II’s desire to glorify MARY as his god in his pontificate.”

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

The only thing that hurts me is my stomach from laughing so hard!
 
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kujo313:
Seriously, bud, for as long as you’ve been around here, you should be getting an idea of what Catholics really believe re: Mary at this point. Thinking this anti-Catholic tripe is an accurant representation of our theology is amazing. It’s dishonest, in fact.

Why don’t you just skip all the legwork of finding shoddy anti-Catholic sites that don’t even come close to refuting what the Church actually believes and just call us liars? It’d be more honest than never citing a single Catholic sourse. :rolleyes:
 
Kujo - The first link is catholicconcerns.com.

Mary Ann Colllins converted to Catholicism because she had a crush on a Catholic boy in high school who moved away. Then she was rejected by the convent (she never became a nun which she claims). She was hardly a Catholic and definitely not a nun. Why would a fraud like that have anything truthful to say about Catholic veneration of Mary?
 
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Eden:
Kujo - The first link is catholicconcerns.com.

Mary Ann Colllins converted to Catholicism because she had a crush on a Catholic boy in high school who moved away. Then she was rejected by the convent (she never became a nun which she claims). She was hardly a Catholic and definitely not a nun. Why would a fraud like that have anything truthful to say about Catholic veneration of Mary?
Because in an anti-Catholic’s mind, a good stigma trumps a real dogma any day.
 
Kujo-

When you see a man one his knees with his head bowed, before a King or Queen as he is being knighted, do you beleive that person being knighted is worshiping the King or Queen?

When you see a picture of a protestant minister on one knee with a book in his hand (presumably a bible) and his head bowed looking at the book, do you believe he is worshiping the book in his hand?

PLEASE ANSWER.
 


Look at these protestants kneeling before an altar with what looks like beer bottles and cigarettes and pills. Looks to me like they are worshipping these items.
 
I think we can say that to assume we know someone’s beliefs are from some internet pictures and commentary is sophmoric at best.
 
kujo has been taken over by Stephen King… have you gone mad??

You have run out of anything usefull to say ON THE TOPIC OF SS, so now you cut and past from proven anti-Catholic sites who are as hate-filled as you appear to be.

Or are you just stubborn and without any knowledge of the True Faith at all… or both??

I pray that God will open your eyes to see some truth,
your ears to hear some truth
and your heart to know you could do both with God’s help
 
This is THE VERY reason that I came home to the Catholic faith after over 34 years away.

Here’s an excerpt from my own “testimony”.

"I am a cradle Catholic and a “revert” to the faith after being gone for about 34 years. I had left the Church at about age 17 because I was on drugs and then “got saved” at a Campus Life Bible study that was run by a very cool minister. I had always gone to church but never really taken it seriously or read the Bible, even though it was in the house and other members of my family read it. The lack was not in the church (I see that now) but within me. I began to read the Bible for the first time in my life…(the epistle of St. James) and it really hit home. I have always believed in God, but I saw that that was not enough. I did alright for a couple of years, got married and we moved here to Florida, where I stayed out of establishment churches because I figured they were all messed up and did my thing as a “Jesus freak”, “witnessing” on the streets and handing out Christian underground papers and tracts, to anyone who would listen.

Eventually I and my little family joined a Baptist church because the preacher convinced me that we believed the same things and he liked my no fear witnessing. That was fine until I admitted that I figured that the gifts of the Holy Spirit did not end with the death of the last apostle. That ended my path to being a Baptist minister so we joined a local Assembly of God where we stayed for many years in spite of some really unscriptural and uncharitable things they did. I became a deacon there, but finally we left after they pulled some really lame stuff and blew me off when I pointed out that what they were doing was unscriptural. My letter telling them why we were leaving was 10 pages long.

I intended to find another church, but we never did and so we remained out of any church for many years.

**About 5 years ago I hit a real crisis and decided to turn back to the Lord. I found that Jesus meant every word of the parable of the prodigal son. I began to read the Bible again and got a New American Bible which is about like the NIV except this one has all the books (which I liked even though at the time I was still a Protestant). This particular edition was fairly big, with a bright green paperback cover that said “The Catholic Bible” in big orange letters. I went diddy-bopping into a meeting one day with that in hand and wasn’t in there a hot minute when some guy jumped my case.

“Are you Catholic?’ he asked me. “Well…yeah”, says I, (since technically I was). “You Catholics worship Mary.” “Say what?” I responded. “You Catholics worship Mary. You pray to her.” “Look, I know I been outta the church for a long time, and we do pray to her but we DON”T worship her and no Catholic that knows his ear from his elbow would ever even SAY such a crazy thing. We worship God alone. End of story, Dude.”

He persisted so severely that I finally told him that I’d get some books, check it out and get back to him with what I found out, and that if he was right then I would never enter a Catholic Church ever again.**

I found a great book by a priest named Father Oscar Lukefahr of Catholic Home Study Service (The Catholic Home Study Service ) and read it carefully and prayerfully. I was happy to find that not only were the Catholics right and that they do not worship anyone but Almighty God, but that their doctrines about Mary are soundly based upon the Bible and that the early Christians believed the very same things. Even the three pillars of the Reformation ( Luther, Calvin, and Zwingli) believed the same things about Mary that Catholics do today. In the end I went back to church and met another Catholic guy, who like myself was returning to the faith as well. We studied and talked and found ourselves having to dig up real answers for people we knew who didn’t like the Catholic Church.

I continued to study Catholic teaching and discovered that a great deal of what I had been taught about the Bible and Christianity was wrong. I found that non-Catholics ignore and “read around” Bible passages that support Catholic teaching and that they completely ignore the history of Christianity prior to the 1500s. Now I know what I believe and why and I will never change, though I promise every non-Catholic that I dialog with that if they can prove that the Catholics are wrong that I’ll be in their church with them every Sunday from now on. No one even comes close…"

This allegation is the dumbest thing that anyone can allege to us, because it is just plain not true.

THAT means that whoever told you this about the Catholic Church was dead wrong.

If that is true…just what all else have they taught you wrong about?
Get the facts. Decide for yourself.
Pax vobiscum,
 
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JSmitty2005:
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Angainor:
I do not rule out the possiblity that the LCMS could one day fall apart for one reason or another (it is led by human beings after all).
If you believe the LCMS to be the True Church of Christ, you cannot hold such a position because Jesus told us that the gates of Hell would not prevail…ever!
I don’t believe the LCMS is the True Church of Christ. I would have thought I made that clear by now.

The LCMS is an assembly of Christians that share common confession. The Lutheran Church isn’t 500 years old. The Missouri Synod is much younger than that. It is a transient human organization.

P.S. This thread is getting [post=1397597]downright silly[/post]. :rolleyes:
 
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JSmitty2005:
To believe that the truth will live on, you must presuppose that you have it at this moment. But yet you’ve already expressed doubt concerning your understanding of Christianity
The truth can live on without me. It hardly matters if I have certain knowledge of the truth.
J:
Furthermore, the handful of “truths” that you probably hold include beliefs that have not always existed. The obvious example is the doctrine of Sola Scriptura. This is the foundation of your religion and yet it cannot be found in the history of Christendom until Father Martin Luther came along and defected from the Church.
I’m neither Fundamentalist nor Evangelical. My understanding of Sola Scriptura is different from either of them. It is probably a minority opinion in the Protestant world.

Sola Scriptura is not the foundation of my religion. It does not even have a line item in our confessions. But It is mentioned. 1] 1. We believe, teach, and confess that the sole rule and standard according to which all dogmas together with [all] teachers should be estimated and judged are the prophetic and apostolic Scriptures of the Old and of the New Testament alone, as it is written Ps. 119:105: Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path. And St. Paul: Though an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you, let him be accursed, Gal. 1:8.

We believe the Bible to be a reliable testamony to the truth. (This sentiment was not invented in the 16th century.)

“Though an angel from heaven preach any other gospel unto you, let him be accursed.” We are to accept only the gospel as taught by the Apostles. We believe the New Testament true representation of the Gospel as tought by the Apostles. All other teaching must be compared to the New Testament so we can be sure what someone else is teaching us is not a Gospel other than the Gospel taught by the Apostles.

The Bible is the Sole source we trust to represent the true teachings of the Apostles, thus it is the sole source we happen to have to make sure teachings represent the Gospel as taught by the Apostles. Thus Sola Scriptura. If Gabriel came down to teach us something, we would make sure it was consistant with Scripture.
 
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Angainor:
P.S. This thread is getting [post=1397597]downright silly[/post]. :rolleyes:
I believe Kujo was the catalyst for this with his introduction of the anti-catholic websites and photos from google.
 
The truth can live on without me. It hardly matters if I have certain knowledge of the truth.
And that’s the ultimate defense of the Protestant. Of atheists, or relativists, or anyone who doesn’t want to know the truth, really. That’s what it comes down to with so many of them–what’s true is secondary.
 
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Angainor:
P.S. This thread is getting [post=1397597]downright silly[/post]. :rolleyes:
That is my same reaction when people show pictures of the Pope standing in front of a statue and they claim he worshipping it. 🙂
 
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