Sola Scriptura Or Bible Alone Is False

[SIA]

So does scripture say they are false?

Or

Does Scripture not support them in the way Catholics teach them?

I believe that it has to do just as much with what Scripture does not say as it does with what Scripture does say.

 

[SIA]

I just want to say once again how cordial and respectful you are every single time you post or even when we have a disagreement. I appreciate the way you treat me and I will always be glad to treat you in return with honor and respect. Thank you.

 

[ralphinal]

I believe that it has to do just as much with what Scripture does not say as it does with what Scripture does say.

Fair enough.

Does the Scripture say as much about Peter as it does about the nature of the Trinity?

I just want to say once again how cordial and respectful you are every single time you post or even when we have a disagreement. I appreciate the way you treat me and I will always be glad to treat you in return with honor and respect. Thank you.

You are welcome. I try to be charitable. Like Jesus would say, that is easy when the other person is too. I know that you are certain of your convictions. I am equally sure of mine. THat does not make either of us bad or good. THere is no reason to be rude.

 

[JMJ_coder]

The Bible was comprised by the Early Church. It was not written by the Catholic church. Huge difference.

The Early Church IS the Catholic Church.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Let me put it this way:

Catholics claim that Protestants cannot know what truly constitutes Scripture without the infallible declarations of the Catholic Church - right? So basically - Protestants cannot know for sure that the Bible they are reading is complete and without false epistles, unless they rely upon the infallible declarations of the Catholic Church.

“This is the Protestant problem,” says the Catholic.

But here is my question for the Catholic who brings this assertion against the Protestant:

“How do you know for sure what truly constitutes Scripture?”

I know what constitutes Scripture because the biblical canon was compiled by the Catholic Church, it is part of Sacred Tradition.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hi Bill,

This leads to another question:

How do you know that the catholic church wrote the Bible?

And how do you know that they were correct in their determination of which books belong in the Bible?

How do I know that George Washington was the first president of the United States? The answers are the same – it is a historical fact. The development of the canon of Scripture is part of the historical record, part of the history of the Church.

The second question is more legitimate. How do I know that the Church was correct in its declaration of the canon? I know because Jesus promised the Church the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Thus I place my trust in Him and have faith that the Spirit has led the Church not into error but into all Truth.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Firstly, the Bible is perspicuous (clear, understandable) - it is not some mysterious book that cannot be understood by common ordinary Christians. Otherwise why would the apostles address their epistles to them rather than the magisterium?

First, the Apostles were the Magisterium in those days. Why would they address letters to themselves?

Second, if the Bible is so clear and understandable, why does Saint Peter warn about Saint Paul’s writings: “There are some things in them hard to understand” (2 Peter 3:16)?

 

[cthulhubryan]

The Bible was comprised by the Early Church. It was not written by the Catholic church. Huge difference.

The early church WAS the Catholic church.

As to the bible. St. Athanasius in 367, during the reigns of Pope St. Damascus I and Emperor Jovian, in his Easter letter named the 27 books of the New Testament as Canon. Pope St. Damascus I in the Council of Rome affirmed these.

These were affirmed again by the Synod of Hippo under the auspices of St. Augustine in 393 during the reigns of Pope St. Siricius and Emperor Theodosius I.

Finally these were settled upon at the Councils of Carthage of 397 and 419. St. Augustine considered this closed as did the Pope. (Please see De Civitate Dei, The City of God)

Therefore these books were written by the original apostles or their disciples and were made canon by the Catholic Church under the auspices of Rome.

Written by and made Canon by the original disciples including Pope Peter (though at that time he would have been called Father Peter, Bishop of Rome just as Father Josef Ratzinger is Bishop of Rome. Pope = Papa = Father.

 

[reccanboy]

Today there are OVER 32,OOO non-cathloic churchof competing denominations, each insisting its interpretation of the Bible is the correct one. The resulting divisions have caused untold confusion among millions of sincere but misled Christians.

There aren’t over 32,000 protestant denominations. Please don’t perpetuate this myth.

 

[SIA]

The early church WAS the Catholic church. Can you show me where it says that in Scripture?

As to the bible. St. Athanasius in 367, during the reigns of Pope St. Damascus I and Emperor Jovian, in his Easter letter named the 27 books of the New Testament as Canon. Pope St. Damascus I in the Council of Rome affirmed these.

These were affirmed again by the Synod of Hippo under the auspices of St. Augustine in 393 during the reigns of Pope St. Siricius and Emperor Theodosius I.

Finally these were settled upon at the Councils of Carthage of 397 and 419. St. Augustine considered this closed as did the Pope. (Please see De Civitate Dei, The City of God)

Therefore these books were written by the original apostles or their disciples and were made canon by the Catholic Church under the auspices of Rome.

Written by and made Canon by the original disciples including Pope Peter (though at that time he would have been called Father Peter, Bishop of Rome just as Father Josef Ratzinger is Bishop of Rome. Pope = Papa = Father.

 

[JMJ_coder]

There aren’t over 32,000 protestant denominations. Please don’t perpetuate this myth.

And how many denominations do you think there are?

 

[JMJ_coder]

The early church WAS the Catholic church.** Can you show me where it says that in Scripture?**

The name Catholic Church can be found in Acts 9:31, in English as the “Church throughout all” and in the original Greek as “ekklesia kath olos”.

The first time this expression was used as a proper name for the Church was by Saint Ignatius of Antioch around 110 A.D. when in his letter to the Smyrnaeans he wrote “wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.”

 

[SteveGC]

Can you show me where it says that in Scripture?

In addition to JMJ’s valid reply, I addressed this frequent question of yours in another thread, SIA. I won’t retype it here. But I will link you to that response, in case you don’t revisit that thread, and of course, in case you’re interested…

Click here

God Bless

 

[Frontline]

The second question is more legitimate. How do I know that the Church was correct in its declaration of the canon? I know because Jesus promised the Church the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Thus I place my trust in Him and have faith that the Spirit has led the Church not into error but into all Truth.

This won’t work.

You need the Church to define what is Scripture - and therefore you cannot use Scripture to define the Church. Before you can use Scripture, you need to know what constitutes Scripture, and for this you must look to the Church. But in order to know what constitutes the Church - where does one turn?

 

[JMJ_coder]

This won’t work.

You need the Church to define what is Scripture - and therefore you cannot use Scripture to define the Church. Before you can use Scripture, you need to know what constitutes Scripture, and for this you must look to the Church. But in order to know what constitutes the Church - where does one turn?

Where did I make that circular reasoning? The Church is not defined by Scripture. The Church precedes Sacred Scripture.

I place my trust first and foremost in God. It is God who tells me to love and listen to His Church. As Saint Augustine says:

Consequently, we too receive the Holy Spirit if we love the Church, if we are joined together by charity, if we rejoice in the Catholic name and faith. Let us believe, brethren; as much as every man loves the Church of Christ, so much has he the Holy Spirit.

–Saint Augustine (Tractatus in Io 32, 8 )​

It is the Church that has bee entrusted the task of preserving and handing on the revealed Truth contained in the Deposit of Faith. This Deposit contains both Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture. Since Sacred Scripture is that revelation given to the Church that has been written down by the Church, I trust in the Church and the guidance promised of the Holy Spirit to have not erred in this respect.

 

[SteveGC]

You need the Church to define what is Scripture - and therefore you cannot use Scripture to define the Church.

Why not? Of course you can use Scripture to define the Church, who is the compiler of Scripture. Scripture doesn’t have to prove the source of it’s own compilation, but Scripture certainly can, and does, reveal the essence of the Church. That’s like saying, an author can’t talk about and describe himself in a book he authored, but MUST clarify and prove to readers in that same book that he in fact wrote it. Rubbish.

Before you can use Scripture, you need to know what constitutes Scripture, and for this you must look to the Church. But in order to know what constitutes the Church - where does one turn?

This is circular reasoning that will always persist if one never breaks free from the belief that Scripture is the ultimate Christian authority on earth. As JMJ offered…first came Christ…then came His Church…then came Scripture and Tradition.

God Bless

 

[Frontline]

Why not? Of course you can use Scripture to define the Church.

Well if you can do this - then it proves that one can know what is actually Scripture apart from the “infallible declarations” of the Catholic Church. So why is it that Catholics claim that Protestants cannot know what is Scripture without the Catholic Church?

 

[Bill_Pick]

WHEN IT COMES TO THE BIBLE DONT ALL PROTESTANT SAY THEY ARE "infallible ALL 32,000 NON-CATHLOIC CHURCHES WITH THEIR PRIVATE INTERPRETATION WHICH BTW IS AGAINST THE BIBLE 2PETER 1;20

 

[SIA]

The name Catholic Church can be found in Acts 9:31, in English as the “Church throughout all” and in the original Greek as “ekklesia kath olos”.

The first time this expression was used as a proper name for the Church was by Saint Ignatius of Antioch around 110 A.D. when in his letter to the Smyrnaeans he wrote “wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.”

that’s right. The word “catholic” means universal. I’m talking about “Catholic”. The Bible meakes no mention of this institution.

I am Anglican and most certainly catholic, but I am Not Catholic.

 

[SteveGC]

Well if you can do this - then it proves that one can know what is actually Scripture apart from the “infallible declarations” of the Catholic Church. So why is it that Catholics claim that Protestants cannot know what is Scripture without the Catholic Church?

I’m not following your logic at all. I apologize. But let me say…

Historical fact…The Chuch compiled the Bible, declaring which Books/Letters were inspired, and which were not.

Biblical fact…The Holy Spirit guides The Church unto all truth, which would logically infer the guidance of this declaration of Bible compilation.

Thus,

NO ONE can discern apart from The Church what books belong within the Bible.

and NO ONE can discern apart from The Church the proper, complete interpretation, and revealed salvific truths from the Bible .

Let’s start with these statements above, and then you can let us know what logical conclusions you think are revealed from them.

God Bless