Sola Scriptura Silence

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rocketrob said:
It definitely seemed that you implied a conclusion by referencing this passage. I wasn’t the only one who took it this way.

I haven’t seen anyone push ‘other writings’ over Scripture in this thread. The Sacred Tradition being discussed comes from the words and teachings that Jesus Himself passed on to the Apostles. And that Tradition is not held ‘over’ Scripture, but in equal regard with it. The two can’t stand independently, but only together.

Again, ‘we Catholics’ are pushing the words and teachings of Christ Himself as Sacred Tradition. Together with Scripture, it forms the complete Word of God, which is actually Christ Himself. And that Word can’t and doesn’t change. However, the traditional practices of the Church can change from time to time, as my complete Catechism reference indicated.

rocketrob
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did Jesus teach that one can find salvation other than Himself?
 
the Bible never puts peter in rome, his calling was to preach to the jews, paul’s was to the gentiles and we know paul was in rome:

Romans 15:20 and thus I make it my ambition to preach the gospel, not where Christ has already been named, lest I build on someone else’s foundation
 
Jerry_Marino said:
did Jesus teach that one can find salvation other than Himself?
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To clear up any potential misconceptions, here are a few words from the Catholic Catechism regarding salvation:
CCC Article 161 - “Believing in Jesus Christ and in the One who sent him for our salvation is necessary for obtaining that salvation…”
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CCC Article 169 - “Salvation comes from God alone; but because we receive the life of faith through the Church, she is our mother: ‘We believe the Church as the mother of our new birth, and not in the Church as if she were the author of our salvation.’ Because she is our mother, she is also our teacher in the faith.”
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However, this is getting beyond the topic of this particular thread.

rocketrob
 
SteveGC said:
The Bible never puts Peter upside down on a cross.

I guess that didn’t happen either?
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no the Bible never says how he died, that is church tradition taken from John 21:18 which as follows: "Amen, amen, I say to you, when you were younger, you used to dress yourself and go where you wanted; but when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands, and someone else will dress you and lead you where you do not want to go."

Originally probably a proverb about old age, now used as a figurative reference to the crucifixion of Peter.
 
rocketrob said:
To clear up any potential misconceptions, here are a few words from the Catholic Catechism regarding salvation:

However, this is getting beyond the topic of this particular thread.

rocketrob
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no it is not going beyond the topic, the topic is sola scriptura, you showed like a true catholic and nothing to be ashamed of that is what you were taught but the church doesn’t teach in Christ alone. what does it teach about mary being redemtrix.

i know the Bible don’t mention her as God’s plan for salvation.
 
Jerry_Marino said:
the Bible never puts peter in rome, his calling was to preach to the jews, paul’s was to the gentiles and we know paul was in rome:

Romans 15:20 and thus I make it my ambition to preach the gospel, not where Christ has already been named, lest I build on someone else’s foundation
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(Hope no one minds if I pop in…)

So… if Peter was only called to preach to the Jews, then Paul was wrong to rebuke him at Antioch…

Galatians 2:11-12
11 When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong.
12 Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group.

So, evidently, since Peter was called to preach to the Jews, he was stepping out of his bounds by ministering to the Gentiles.

In other words, your proposition that Peter was called to minister exclusively to the Jews, Paul exclusively to the Gentiles is totally nonsensical, especially considering the Great Commission:

Matthew 28:16-20
16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go.
17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted.
18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

ALL nations. Not just the Jews. And we know Peter was there, unless by “eleven disciples” Matthew means, “every disciple except Peter, including the corpse of Judas Iscariot.”

And all else aside, there was in fact a Jewish population in the city of Rome. According to the oh-so-dependable Wikipedia, at the time Caesar Augustus began his reign, there were over 7,000 Jews in the city of Rome (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_diaspora). So, it would not be so far-fetched anyway for Peter to go to Rome to minister to the Jews.

As for Romans 15:20, the epistle to the Romans was written in 57 or 58 A.D. Peter died in Rome sometime in the 60s A.D. What tells you that Peter could not have gone there later than when Paul wrote his letter?
 
Jerry_Marino said:
no it is not going beyond the topic, the topic is sola scriptura, you showed like a true catholic and nothing to be ashamed of that is what you were taught but the church doesn’t teach in Christ alone. what does it teach about mary being redemtrix.

i know the Bible don’t mention her as God’s plan for salvation.
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Because Bible doesn’t stand for “Big Infinite Book of Learning Everything” 😉

But it would seem that Mary was an imprtant part of God’s plan of salvation. How could the mother of the Christ NOT be a part of God’s plan of salvation? Why would God bother to ask Mary’s permission if she didn’t matter in His plan? How could she accompany Jesus all the way to the cross and not be part of God’s plan for salvation?

Mary played an important role in bringing salvation to the world if in no other way than that she willingly accepted the responsibility of being the mother of Jesus. Could some other 1st century Jewish woman have done it? Sure. Did they? No.

Could some other man have been the general of the Continental Army in the Revolutionary War, besides George Washington? Shall we not call Washington one of America’s Founding Fathers simply because someone else might have done it?
 
P.S.
My apologies for suddenly bursting in on your conversation. I apologize if I misunderstand in any way the context of this conversation and for any difficulties my posts may have caused. I also understand that my posts had little or nothing to do with Sola Scriptura.
 
Well, this thread might just be getting out of hand.

How’s about we stay on one topic, because Sola Scriptura is one massive topic. Somebody choose one thing that we can focus on, maybe the canon, or interpretation, and other topics can go to their own threads. (Kinda like little schism threads :D)

And, since I’m the OP, (Regrettably, I didn’t realize this would become such a huge and messy thread!!!) if people are wondering about my Catholic/Protestant decision, it’s Catholic. For the time being, that is.

God Bless you all!
 
JJ59 said:
…
How’s about we stay on one topic, because Sola Scriptura is one massive topic. Somebody choose one thing that we can focus on…
…
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Hey JJ59,

While we’re back on topic… 🙂

…do you have any more questions regarding Sola Scriptura that haven’t been answered yet?

God bless you too,
Sharp 11
 
we are on topic sola scriptura, the church added on to their teaching later on around 1700’s maybe, but nonetheless Jesus is the only way cause that is what the Bible teaches.
 
Jerry_Marino said:
first of all my friend i did not quote Scripture,
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No, you cited two verses of Scripture. Now you say you didn’t quote Scripture. What was the point of the citation if you were not referring to the words? It’s this kind of duplicity that has me suspicious of you, Jerry. You speak out of both sides of your mouth.
Jerry_Marino said:
…we (believers) go with sola Scriptura cause like i mentioned before:

the Bible teaches what is True
the Bible shows us what is wrong in our lives
the Bible helps us do what is right
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But it doesn’t teach sola scriptura, does it? Being a believer is inseparable from what you believe. If you believe falsehood, as you do, it’s a very serious liability.
Jerry_Marino said:
now as for timothy what he was taught was the Torah, the Old Testament: Deuteronomy 6:7 remember the New Testament had not been written as we know it but it was in the process with the letters.
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As we’ve been trying to tell you. Glad you’ve finally caught on.

the Bible is the only book we nee to discover the foundational truths of how to know and walk with God. some aberrant religious groups or cults insist we need another book to help us interpret what the Bible says. but the Bible needs no outside interpretation. it speaks for itself. in fact, the best commentary on the Bible is the Bible.
The problem with that is, the Lord Jesus is not a book and cannot be reduced to a book. Jesus is very much alive today and speaks to the Catholic Church through His Holy Spirit exactly as He promised. You are slave to a book and profess a dead faith. I know you think you’re saved, but that’s only an opinion you scraped out of a book.
 
ralphy said:
I still do not understand why you catholics push tradition, when the Bible says you will be judged by Gods word.
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I can’t understand why you protestants can’t understand that Sacred Tradition IS God’s word. You’ve been told enough times for you to understand it. Insisting it isn’t true is nothing but an obstinate opinion.
ralphy said:
Hierarchy in the Roman catholic church can change tradition anytime they like, after all, they are the ones who started it.Gods word will never change, it is solid and forever.
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You are wrong and you are right. Wrong in saying the Church hierarchy can change tradition; right in saying the word of God will never change. One out of two is pretty good in baseball. In theology, it’s terrible.
 
Dee_Jay said:
Hummm…but all others are faulty to some point too no one is perfecto.However,if we have a question that we need answers we can pray it directly to the Lord Jeus whose Presence is with us(after you take Eucharistic bread)and tell HIM everyone has their explanations & diffrerent versions can i have your true versions Lord Jesus??I have not ask this question myself maybe some of you have, share the answer with us.
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Be happy to. I can’t depend on my own ‘version’ of the truth because, if I believe the Lord Jesus speaks directly to me, I have to believe he also speaks directly to you and the billions of other Christians on earth. The Lord doesn’t teach falsehood. He teaches truth. SInce you and I, and millions of others, have markedly different beliefs about Christianity, some of are wrong and if Jesus is speaking to all of us, He’s lied to most of us.
 
The inspired books teach the truth. “Since therefore all that the inspired authors or sacred writers affirm should be regarded as affirmed by the Holy Spirit, we must acknowledge that the books of Scripture firmly, faithfully, and without error teach that truth which God, for the sake of our salvation, wished to see confided to the Sacred Scriptures.”

finally i caught on:shrug:
 
vynette said:
SHW and Sharp 11

The premise of your statements is of course that Peter founded the church in Rome.

There is actually no evidence for this. Peter’s putative residence in Rome was not even asserted before 170-180 AD.

Can you provide any evidence prior to 170-180 AD that Peter was ever in Rome?
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What???!! Are you sure you’re a Catholic? You sound like a fundamentalist protestant to me. One who is pretending to be Catholic to try to give legitimacy to her absurd statements about the history of the Church.

If you are a Catholic, you need to take a Cathechisn course. Start with the third grade.
 
Jerry_Marino said:
did Jesus teach that one can find salvation other than Himself?
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You’re changing the subject, Jerry. A very common, tiresome, duplicious, tool-of-satan protestant trick almost always used when they have nothing to say to the subject.
 
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